Immigration and Asylum (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter mmttww
- Start date
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
We can’t afford to pay people who have left the country
Our ni contributions are paying for their pensions not our own
They want to move away that’s fine benefits will stop then
rob9872
Well-Known Member
That's always been the case and an ageing population is why the threshold age is increasing. Still think it's not fair to penalise someone who has paid into the pot for others for 50 years. Especially when you're happy to pay to feed, house and clothe those who haven't contributed a bean.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
Its not penalising, if they don't want to be part of our society why should we pay them
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So I assume they also shouldn’t pay tax on a uk sourced private pension either?
If you paid into a UK based private pension as younger people now do would you be happy if that the provider declared it nil and void if you left the country after retirement. Most people over the age of 67 weren't in a supplementary scheme when they started work as it was presumed that the NI would cover it if they paid in for 45 years. Nobody imagined the benefits bill would escalate as it has, In more recent years obviously folks were encouraged to have AVC's or employment funded pensions.
Nick
Administrator
Ironic really. Just that you're talking about people who have worked and paid tax all their life.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
And those with private pensions still have to pay tax before they receive any income
Nick
Administrator
We can't afford to pay people who have worked here all their life but we can for people who will likely never pay anywhere near as tax.
Make it make sense b
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It really is amazing when you look at this thought process
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
That'd really fuck my family over.
My wife and I paid plenty of NI for 20+ years before moving our family to Australia to try and give my kids a better life.
Don't know if we'll stay here forever but we know we're entitled to a state pension at the moment when we reach retirement age.
Not all people that move away are rich people dodging tax in dubai.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I thought benefits were a problem
Who says we should give benefits to people who haven’t paid in?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Everyone whatever age pays tax on their income over the tax allowance each year
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Pension is by far and away the largest benefit isn’t it?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What you wowing now?
Nick
Administrator
We paid 15 billion to immigrants in the last 18 months.
If somebody has lived and worked in the UK then why shouldn't they get their pension that they paid into?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
We haven’t got enough money and they don’t live here
Nick
Administrator
Got enough to pay millions per day for hotels.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Don't think a single person on here thinks it's a good idea to keep putting people up in hotels.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
24-25 state pension costs £135bn
Marty
Well-Known Member
Are you going to take your state pension Pete?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
IF such a thing were ever considered I doubt it would apply to those that had already moved. However, it could be brought in from a particular future point and anyone moving abroad after that would have to factor in the loss of that income when considering whether to go.
It is of course a bit swings and roundabouts as although it would reduce pension payments, they wouldn't be using local services like health or social care (although they could feasibly come back later on when they were getting old and in more need of such services), and it frees up housing in this country. Maybe the argument could be made for a reduced pension for those living abroad, as if you have the means and ability to move abroad chances are you're not going to be living on the breadline.
I can sort of see the argument for it, but I can also see why it would be considered unfair. I certainly think there are other things we could change before this.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Doubt it will exist when I become due it at 67
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Although it doesn't really need saying (but if we don't it'll be asked why we're so quiet on the matter) it's a disgrace and if convicted should forfeit any right to remain in this country.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If you’ve paid your taxes and NI you deserve to be able to draw your pension regardless of where you choose to live when you retire. That’s just basic common decency. You’ve earned that right.
Probably ain’t going to be a problem much longer anyway Pete as the British expat communities of pensioners in places like Spain are shrinking at an ever increasing rate as something changed in 2020 that means it’s far more difficult for British pensioners to meet the requirements to retire on the continent on the state pension. It’s down something like 20% over the last five years and it’s a trend that keeps growing.
What we should be more worried about is not pensioners leaving but the under 35’s brain drain that seems to get little coverage. The numbers over the last five years are growing year on year and has the potential to have serious long lasting effects unless those numbers either decrease or those people are replaced by other means, like immigration.
Probably ain’t going to be a problem much longer anyway Pete as the British expat communities of pensioners in places like Spain are shrinking at an ever increasing rate as something changed in 2020 that means it’s far more difficult for British pensioners to meet the requirements to retire on the continent on the state pension. It’s down something like 20% over the last five years and it’s a trend that keeps growing.
What we should be more worried about is not pensioners leaving but the under 35’s brain drain that seems to get little coverage. The numbers over the last five years are growing year on year and has the potential to have serious long lasting effects unless those numbers either decrease or those people are replaced by other means, like immigration.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
it's really not that hard to get.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Enjoying the posting of a story (Coventry one) in a thread about immigration and asylum at the point where there's no mention in the story of either immigration or asylum. It would be a lot easier if someone just started a thread called 'Horrible Sh*t Done by Brown People' and dumped this stuff in there.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It’s a ridiculous idea. What if someone has been working in the UK for 25 years and then has to relocate abroad for their job but then decided to stay there?
Nick
Administrator
Bookmark it if you want.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Is this an ITK-type situation?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I'm just treating it as a hypothetical. As I said I think there would be better ways to solve this crisis but let's look at the actual pros and cons of it as an idea.
If someone is relocating abroad for their job it's highly likely it's not going to be for a low-skill, low-wage job. Given that opt-out employer pensions have now been a thing for a while people in that kind of position should have some sort of other income to provide for themselves in older age. And if it was known that they would be receiving a lower/no old age pension from the UK govt if they stayed abroad then that would have to be part of their decision.
You can see why there might be an argument for it regardless. While there would be some who would be quite well off and have no need for the state pension, just in general what you'd be doing is sending British money abroad and not getting any of it back into the UK economy. We'd basically be paying to help other countries economies. How is that sensible?
It could be argued that just because you're paying tax/NI into a system it doesn't automatically mean you are entitled to a pension at the end of it. It's more a gentleman's agreement. The rules change all the time and what pensioners get has nothing to do with what the rules were when they were paying in, it has everything to do with what the rules are now. Can any of us state with absolute certainty they'll receive an old age pension in the future? I certainly can't.
And how is the current system fair anyway? Someone could work and pay into the system for 40years and drop dead the day before they're able to claim any of it. Meanwhile someone could spend their lives getting pension credits from benefits and live to 90 and get a pension they've not actually contributed towards for 25 years.
At least this would be a choice for a person. Move abroad but get less/no pension from UK govt. It would be their choice to make. As I've said I think stopping paying it to them completely would be grossly unfair, but a reduced state pension or an ex-pat/emigrant tax on it for pensioners living abroad I don't think sounds totally unreasonable.