Immigration and Asylum (4 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

How the fuck is he now getting interviewed on TV? I seriously don’t understand what is going on anymore

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Our once proud country is finished

Don’t be daft

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes it would.

I’d actually go one step further and go as far to say that English common law traditions already guarantee all the human rights and liberties outlined in the ECHR.



If that’s the case, we don’t need the ECHR then.

It’s quite ironic seeing you two have no idea about our history. You’d think we didn’t have human rights before 1997.

So your fix-all is to get rid of the ECHR when all the main parts of it are in English law anyway? So getting rid of the ECHR won't make the blindest bit of difference as the laws will still be there. That's my point.

It's the fact that it's got 'European' in the title that makes it this massive stumbling block for many.

 

[Farmer Jim]

How the fuck is he now getting interviewed on TV? I seriously don’t understand what is going on anymore

He`ll be managing West Ham next week.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

He'll be on I'm a Celebrity in nxt few weeks & Strictly nxt year

 

[Sick Boy]

He'll be on I'm a Celebrity in nxt few weeks & Strictly nxt year

Haha I actually thought the same about I’m a Celebrity.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So your fix-all is to get rid of the ECHR when all the main parts of it are in English law anyway? So getting rid of the ECHR won't make the blindest bit of difference as the laws will still be there. That's my point.

It's the fact that it's got 'European' in the title that makes it this massive stumbling block for many.

It will because what the Human Rights Act did is a) enshrine the ECHR into UK law and b) accepts the rulings of the ECtHR*.

The reason the UK Government experienced legal fare with the Rwanda scheme was because of this legal framework. Dismantling this framework and passing primary legislation to reassert parliamentary sovereignty is goal here.

Dominic Cummings is on record saying the Royal Navy would find it ‘operationally easy’ to turn boats around in the English Channel but doing so would contravene the ECHR. They could be wrong but you’d expect the Royal Navy to be subject matter experts on the logistics of that operation.

Anyway, we fundamentally disagree on whether or not this would work so there’s not much point in going round in circles. Suppose leaving the ECHR and implementing an Australian style ‘Operation Sovereign Borders’, would that be desirable outcome?

On the flip side, if this government found a way to keep the ECHR, stop the boats and deport foreign criminals… That would be a win-win. I’ve just lost confidence in the existing framework to deliver these goals and feel that successive governments would’ve found a way by now if it were possible (including EU countries).

* I’ve said ECJ in previous posts, please note this should actually read ECtHR and I’ve got my EU courts mixed up.

 

[Captain Dart]

Our once proud country is finished

Shit happens.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It will because what the Human Rights Act did is a) enshrine the ECHR into UK law and b) accepts the rulings of the ECtHR*.

The reason the UK Government experienced legal fare with the Rwanda scheme was because of this legal framework. Dismantling this framework and passing primary legislation to reassert parliamentary sovereignty is goal here.

Dominic Cummings is on record saying the Royal Navy would find it ‘operationally easy’ to turn boats around in the English Channel but doing so would contravene the ECHR. They could be wrong but you’d expect the Royal Navy to be subject matter experts on the logistics of that operation.

Anyway, we fundamentally disagree on whether or not this would work so there’s not much point in going round in circles. Suppose leaving the ECHR and implementing an Australian style ‘Operation Sovereign Borders’, would that be desirable outcome?

On the flip side, if this government found a way to keep the ECHR, stop the boats and deport foreign criminals… That would be a win-win. I’ve just lost confidence in the existing framework to deliver these goals and feel that successive governments would’ve found a way by now if it were possible (including EU countries).

* I’ve said ECJ in previous posts, please note this should actually read ECtHR and I’ve got my EU courts mixed up.

International law would still apply though and due to the proximity to France there are no international waters to 'push' these boats back into. So France could just as easily record us forcing boats into their waters in contravention of international law, or just turn them straight back round again into our own waters.

These are not solutions and just seem a very inefficient way to literally go round in circles.

Sure, I agree that things can't go on as they are but leaving the ECHR is going to be about as effective as leaving the EU was. The reality ends up being a bitch.

 

[wingy]

International law would still apply though and due to the proximity to France there are no international waters to 'push' these boats back into. So France could just as easily record us forcing boats into their waters in contravention of international law, or just turn them straight back round again into our own waters.

These are not solutions and just seem a very inefficient way to literally go round in circles.

Sure, I agree that things can't go on as they are but leaving the ECHR is going to be about as effective as leaving the EU was. The reality ends up being a bitch.

There is or seems to be a scheme to make them safe secure by giving them freedom's that frankly they shouldn't be afforded 1 you can't try before you buy.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

International law would still apply though and due to the proximity to France there are no international waters to 'push' these boats back into. So France could just as easily record us forcing boats into their waters in contravention of international law, or just turn them straight back round again into our own waters.

These are not solutions and just seem a very inefficient way to literally go round in circles.

Sure, I agree that things can't go on as they are but leaving the ECHR is going to be about as effective as leaving the EU was. The reality ends up being a bitch.

Australia would often tow boats back to Indonesian waters and this obviously caused diplomatic tensions. They’d also do things like provide life boats with a set route back to Indonesia. What you say would happen with the French did not occur with Australian and Indonesian authorities.

We’re paying the French to stop the boats leaving their shores and they’re predictably not delivering. So if they can’t (or won’t) stop the boats.

You’re very good at agreeing there’s a problem saying ‘this won’t work’ to whatever policy is conjured up. Since you’re so well read up on this, what policies have you read that would work alongside the existing frameworks?

The Australian model is tried and tested with outstanding results. Their small boats issue is no longer an issue because there are no more ‘irregular arrivals’ via small boat. Literally zero for a decade.

If there’s a better alternative with real-world application with a successful track record, please do share.