Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Genuinely couldn’t make it up.
Immigration and Asylum (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter mmttww
- Start date
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
A lot depends on the media I suspect. They've had an easy ride up to now, Farage allowed to spout off on Question Time on a regular basis but very little scrutiny of any policy matters.
The conference seems to have been a bit of a turning point. Bringing out the likes of Malholtra & Connolly at the conference has led to questions they don't have an answer for. Now I'm not sure how many potential Reform voters watch the Sunday morning political shows but Farage was an absolute disaster doing the rounds following conference, couldn't answer basic questions on their favoured policy areas such as immigration.
I would even if you had kids BSB, much better life for them out there, and before anyone says, why don't you bugger off then, I'm too old and not professionally qualified lol
DT-R
Well-Known Member
But, as Farage and UKIP have already shown, a party doesn't have to be in power, or even hold any seats, to change the way the government does its business. UKIP made enough noise for the tories to listen and in fear of losing seats to them, gave us the referendum. And there was far less noise then, than what there is now!
They might not get in, but they can certainly be noisy enough to change Tory and/or Labour policies that effect immigration.
They may not get in, but every party from Labour to the Raving loonies, all know immigration is the biggest political discussion at present. And if they dont want to lose seats to Reform, they need to start addressing it
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rob9872
Well-Known Member
Arguably the fractured right side of politics suits Labour to maintain seats on a low share. The concern shoudl be the red wall seats in deprived areas who blame migration for other issues and are more likely to be manipulated.
I also think some of you give the average voter too much credit. I think someone mentioned watching Sunday morning politics, to most it's simply a cross in a box every few years.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
In some ways that's just levelling the playing field. We've long heard complaints / theories that the fractured left side of politics led to repeated Conservative election wins
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I left over 6 years ago and there’s no chance I’d move back now.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
We wouldn't let you back boy
1. Maybe we do need a Reform government !
2. There's to much diversity and inclusion in the two main party's !
|Aargh, I can hear almost hear the chants of Nazi racist bastard. Let me debate 1st please.
2. Its my belief that that both the Tory's and Labour have to way much of the above by way of the fractured differences in these party's for their leader to govern efficiently. You can debate all day long that the Tories screwed it up 1st(14 years etc), and have arguably that Labour have made things worse since taking office but IMO Conservative's have centre and right wing Euro sceptic elected MP's and Labour have centre and Left wing pro European elected MP's in the house, this is where my thought process of Diversion and Inclusion comes from, not cultural or ethnicity differences. Each of the leaders in these party's are trying to pander to all in there party whether it be on asylum, immigration, benefit reforms and tax's etc.
I don't know whether Farage with his yet to be costed manifesto idea's would do any better, but its a movement with less facets than current offering's of Labour or conservatives and according to current polling they could possibly just win a majority in the next election.
Corbyn's party and Lib Dem could only be part of a coalition on current numbers polled which would make each party even more diverse than it already is requiring even greater inclusion.
Reform will get vote not as a protest but in the hope of what I was expecting with Labour CHANGE.
To be honest I do have an Altaire motive in that I live very close to an HMO that has taken me 40+ years working in the private sector on low wages to own outright and I'm concerned that could possibly be used for asylum seekers. Would this potentially cost me £££ in its value?
With only the state pension guaranteed I had thoughts on equity release to supplement my retirement could this be jeopardised if house value drops significantly and I wish to down size?
2. There's to much diversity and inclusion in the two main party's !
|Aargh, I can hear almost hear the chants of Nazi racist bastard. Let me debate 1st please.
2. Its my belief that that both the Tory's and Labour have to way much of the above by way of the fractured differences in these party's for their leader to govern efficiently. You can debate all day long that the Tories screwed it up 1st(14 years etc), and have arguably that Labour have made things worse since taking office but IMO Conservative's have centre and right wing Euro sceptic elected MP's and Labour have centre and Left wing pro European elected MP's in the house, this is where my thought process of Diversion and Inclusion comes from, not cultural or ethnicity differences. Each of the leaders in these party's are trying to pander to all in there party whether it be on asylum, immigration, benefit reforms and tax's etc.
I don't know whether Farage with his yet to be costed manifesto idea's would do any better, but its a movement with less facets than current offering's of Labour or conservatives and according to current polling they could possibly just win a majority in the next election.
Corbyn's party and Lib Dem could only be part of a coalition on current numbers polled which would make each party even more diverse than it already is requiring even greater inclusion.
Reform will get vote not as a protest but in the hope of what I was expecting with Labour CHANGE.
To be honest I do have an Altaire motive in that I live very close to an HMO that has taken me 40+ years working in the private sector on low wages to own outright and I'm concerned that could possibly be used for asylum seekers. Would this potentially cost me £££ in its value?
With only the state pension guaranteed I had thoughts on equity release to supplement my retirement could this be jeopardised if house value drops significantly and I wish to down size?
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
1,7 mln. weergaven · 66 d. reacties | Rep. Jamie Raskin calls Reform UK leader Nigel Farage a "Putin loving, free speech imposter and Trump sycophant." | Newsweek
Rep. Jamie Raskin calls Reform UK leader Nigel Farage a "Putin loving, free speech imposter and Trump sycophant.".
www.facebook.com
Otis
Well-Known Member
Got to be better than Reform though surely.
I think they would be an utter disaster.
Everyone else has cocked up, but they would do this country so much damage. I think "snake oil salesman" is a very apt tag for Farage.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Most reform voters think he will tax the rich more and bring fairness and integrity back into politics it’s fuckin bizarre
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
I genuinely think if he got into power he would resign and hand over leadership.
He's a disrupter not a leader.
Most normal people are happy with a sensible level of immigration of vetted people who embrace and can help improve the country. Unfortunately what they have had is a shitshow from Tories and Labour with liberals in the background calling anyone who raised a genuine concern in the past racist.
Unsurprisingly that combo has led the rise of reform and scumbags like Tommy Robinson gathering more and more support. Not something I’d ever expect or want to see in this county even if it’s been happening across the continent
Unsurprisingly that combo has led the rise of reform and scumbags like Tommy Robinson gathering more and more support. Not something I’d ever expect or want to see in this county even if it’s been happening across the continent
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
It's that simple and yet most people on here still don't see it.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I would still argue that any problems with immigration are a symptom of rather than the cause of the country’s problems. If people’s lives were generally better, if whole regions of the country hadn’t been left to fester for decades and so on, the appetite for blaming it all on Johnny Foreigner wouldn’t be there.
Yeah, don’t disagree with that. It also brings a lot of benefits when done in the right way. I still think the levels we have seen would have caused issues though. Many still haven’t accepted that if you have even net 300-400k per annum, year on year (let alone more which is what we’ve been seeing), it doesn’t impact public services/infrastructure. Just think of the infrastructure, doctors surgeries, hospital, schools etc a city like cov has for a population of 350k, how is it possible to deliver that annually ?! I’ll give everyone a clue, in the modern U.K,,it’s not.
Anyway, people will believe what they want. We’ve all done this discussion to death and I promised myself not to get bogged down in it again. It just infuriates me that we ended up giving such a huge platform to people like Tommy Robinson. That’s not what this country is all about
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I just think it’s also worth looking at the breakdown and where most immigration is going into. Students comprise a very big chunk of net migration, those coming for low paid work because conditions don’t attract British workers another, those filling skilled jobs yet another.
Nick
Administrator
"Doctors and nurses"
I don't get why people are so scared in the actual point and try to blur it as much as they can.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Major Tom
Well-Known Member
Apart from claims that they will stop immigration, what other policies of RF are you willing to try?And if that's the case, he'll soon lose the faith put in him by the voters, and he, like Labour this time round, will quickly lose their seats.
From where im sat, im willing to give them a try, rather than just sit on an Internet football forum and claim "they'll make the country worse" as if ive got some all seeing powers and can read the future
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Major Tom
Well-Known Member
Agenda funded grifters like the chav Tommy ten names or Farage are not the answer they re just opportunists.
I'm at the end of my working career being a higher rate tax payer for most of it with very good benefits. I'm not sure how some of the gullible angry people who support them would cope with further economic decline due to removal of 'anti woke' polices and privatising of the NHS. Which in reality is the direction of travel for Reform with US backing.
My wider thoughts - Sadly there are now generations of families British born costing the state a lot more than immigration. All using tax funding services.
There are good people across communities everywhere just look at the millions of volunteers and foodback workers. But there are also some shocking people in those areas too who don't feel it's their right to contribute to the country that they live in and supports them.
I wonder how many of those people protesting in London yesterday truly contribute the social fabric of the country they claim to love. Fighting the police isn't evidence of that.
The social decline in some areas of the UK has been in progress for decades accelerated by the decline of geographic localised industries. This wasn't tackled at the time as Britain becoming a service industry led economy was the strategy, but sadly it was too London centric in my opinion and the money didn't bleed across the UK it just put house prices up.
Maybe we should be more angry about that and trillions going to off shore accounts in places like the cayman islands rater then feeding back into the UK.
Looking forward - Having worked in technology the biggest threat to working class people is not immigration or if someone wants to dress up as a woman, it's the rapid implementation of AI and the shedding of workforces across Britain. I have seen whole teams disappear in 18 months against an original timeframe of 3 years. The machine learning is frightening. This is only the start and with less people paying taxes or on lower pay there will be even less money to run the country with.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Indeed AI frightens me, it is probably going to be far more disruptive to society than immigration. A mass of jobless people with no focus or feeling of self worth are a powder keg waiting to explode.
Major Tom
Well-Known Member
AI will replace most jobs, except plumbers, says AI Godfather Geoffrey Hinton | The Northern Post
The Northern Post AI will replace most jobs, except plumbers, says AI Godfather Geoffrey Hinton Tech | Geoffrey Hinton warns
thenorthernpost.net
mmttww
Well-Known Member
DT-R
Well-Known Member
Im not sure if this is a genuine question? Or a leading question where you think you'll get a "gotcha moment" when i say "I only care about the boats"!
Either way, ill bite!
First and foremost, my biggest concern at the moment is the boats, and the sheer number of illegals crossing. So, yes, in that sense, you get your "gotcha" moment. Well done you.
Other policies of theirs I agree with are:
Net Zero. It isn't working how the current and former government think it was and want it to. Yes, in an ideal world, net zero is perfect. But its not happening. There are currently no replacements for coal. There are advancements on replacements for petrol/diesel by using electric, but its still not fully ready or working.
So, coal is still being used, its still being mined. And our government says we've reduced our carbon footprint by not mining coal and drilling oil, but in truth, we've made our footprint bigger. Because were still using these things, but now shipping it from China. So using more fossil fuels to ship fossil fuels. And in doing so, are putting hundreds of oil riggers and miners etc out of work.
If and when a replacement is available, I fully agree all fossil fuels should be ceased. But currently, their isnt. And theyre still being used. So why double the carbon footprint to ship something half way around the world, that is readily available on our doorstep?
Another policy i like is their pledge to raise defence spending up to 3%GDP. The highest of all the parties.
Also, not an important thing, but something id like.to see is St.Georges day a bank holiday! That'd be a nice touch!
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Well if your biggest issue is the boats then you're not really looking at where the vast majority of immigration, and even illegal immigration is coming from. It's like there being a bank robbery and focusing on someone stealing the little pens on chains from the counter.
As for not having a replacement for coal, there are loads. Solar, wind, tidal, geothermal etc could all provide us with the energy we need if we just made the decision to invest in it and increase the scale of them. As an island on the edge of a massive ocean we're very well located to utilise a number of those technologies. Nuclear could provide a help with this transition as even though I'm not a big fan it is on balance the lesser of two evils and yes it is expensive to set up new reactors.
The reason we still use coal is because of the massive fossil fuel lobby. If we invested even half the amount the fossil fuel lobby has spent keeping the likes of coal and gas being used on other forms of energy we'd already be rid of fossil fuels.
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DT-R
Well-Known Member
But were not rid of fossil fuels, and whilst were still needing to use them, why ship them half way round the world, when we could create jobs that were dismantled in getting to "net zero"?
I think we can ALL agree, the sooner we get to net zero, the better. But were miles of being even close. So why put hundreds of British workers in the unemployed stats getting rid of theor jobs/industries until were in a position to fully replace their product?
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
And why spend a fortune opening up mines or drilling for oil/gas when we could focus that attention of the production of clean energy instead? That creates jobs too as well.
It's a false argument - we're not rid of fossil fuels so lets continue using them. We're not rid of old filament lightbulbs so should we stop or reduce making energy efficient LED lighting to continue making the old filament ones?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
They are agitators who are getting funding to disrupt society. Robinson in particular is getting money from Zionist sources, look at his behaviour draping himself in an Israeli flag.
Farage I think less so and Zia Yusef is a Muslim businessman so that's odd but there you are.
On top of this society is plagued by astroturf movements and big business convincing vast swathes of the public and worst indoctrinating children that the world is going to burn up or they might be born in the wrong body or normalising ADHD or autism.
Drives me mad to some extent.
Am I getting paranoid?
SkyBlueCharlie9
Well-Known Member
There would be plenty on here who would drive you to Poland, although not sure they'd be ecstatic having Cov's most embarrassing supporter live there.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Cov’s most embarrassing supporter. Says a fanny like yourself, you’d get laughed at by literally everybody I know. Some of your outbursts are absolutely hilarious
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I don't expect you two to get on, but can I remind you about the mad hatters, the nonce drummer, Jatty don't care and Craig Danny?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Hate it when people are funnier and quicker than me