Immigration and Asylum (4 Viewers)

PVA said:

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No, I'm not missing the point.

Absolutely nobody has heard whatever he said and thought "actually, he's right, I never knew this".

As for the colonise stuff, doesn't he have a point about some places? Just up the road in Sparkhill there's a terrorist trying to stand for election. It wasn't that long ago that that dodgy lawyer was stood on the back of a truck a mile from the CBS waving Gaza flags telling people to vote for him because of Gaza. (This was in the same area there are dispersal orders for groups of men in the park).

Nick said:

No, I'm not missing the point.

Absolutely nobody has heard whatever he said and thought "actually, he's right, I never knew this".

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Well that just confirms you have missed the point.

PVA said:

If you chose to ignore the things that are being done about it then sure, nothing has been done.




But Ratcliffe says there's 12 million people come in and that's what people are choosing to believe, not the above.

I've posted that several times now, it just seems to get ignored.

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In the grand scheme of things it is absolutely nothing. Net migration for the last decade alone is in the millions. Illegal immigrants and criminals within that number are still largely here, and continue to arrive. The jump in percentage has basically gone from doing beyond worse than fuck all, to now effectively fuck all.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

In the grand scheme of things it is absolutely nothing. Net migration for the last decade alone is in the millions. Illegal immigrants and criminals within that number are still largely here, and continue to arrive. The jump in percentage has basically gone from doing beyond worse than fuck all, to now effectively fuck all.

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Well it's a start isn't it, it's not going to be fixed overnight if the problem is as big as you say it is.

I would say that deporting criminals is a good thing, I thought you would agree but apparently not!

PVA said:

Well it's a start isn't it, it's not going to be fixed overnight if the problem is as big as you say it is.

I would say that deporting criminals is a good thing, I thought you would agree but apparently not!

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We were already at 44k in the same period under the last govt with steps put in place to increase it. I'm not disputing the figures but the increase isnt that huge and yet they're claiming this positive action from July 2024, yet everything else that's still broken we hear 'it's as a result of the last government and we've not had time to fix it'. Can't claim all the good stuff and not take responsibility for the bad. Yes it's only 18 months, but it's either all on them or not at all.

PVA said:

Well it's a start isn't it, it's not going to be fixed overnight if the problem is as big as you say it is.

I would say that deporting criminals is a good thing, I thought you would agree but apparently not!

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Most people will view that as a derisory effort on what is a very big problem.

Nick said:

Because your focus is about him and not the point he was making. You have even edited when quoting me.

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If anyone on here was worth £17billion they would be paying any tax they don’t have to. That’s why Jimbo has that money in the first place

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

Most people will view that as a derisory effort on what is a very big problem.

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What policy of Reforms do you think will have a bigger impact in their first 12 months in power?

Grendel said:

If anyone on here was worth £17billion they would be paying any tax they don’t have to. That’s why Jimbo has that money in the first place

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And that's fine, there is (presumably!) nothing illegal about what he's doing.

But don't then moan about the state of the UK and beg for handouts from the UK government.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

It is being ignored. What has been done about it? You both continue to spectacularly miss the point and divert.

The people of the UK are done with the level of immigration we have seen. There has been no attempt to tackle it. If you want to continue struggling with discourse and trying to shift the blame back on the common citizen or have a go at them (like you are doing), then it eventually gets to the point where people will take things into their own hands. In this fashion, that is to vote for a pretty extreme option. We saw a similar thing with Brexit, but you still are not learning and have the audacity to say other people are not listening.

You both also keep naively saying people are lapping up Farage et al, but very few people actually care what they say other than the core message, or have much faith in them being the saviours either. It is a protest. People have had enough. You keep failing to get that. None of it else matters. You keep getting caught up on Farage or what a celebrity says, or focussing on too many specifics - most people outside of your bubbles don't give a shit about any of that. They want to see the topic sensibly discussed (which the left have continuously impaired for decades) and immigration tackled as a matter of urgency, and it has not been. As I pointed out, the reaction to Ratcliffe is prime candy and backs this up. Looking down on people doesn't help either. That does more to push people away and towards the arms of Reform.

There are a few of you on here that really have no clue what most people think and feel, so if you want to bury your heads in the sand for a bit longer then that's unfortunately on you.

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Well it's being ignored and no attempt is being made to tackle it apart from the attempts that are being made. As has been pointed out numbers of deportations are increasing. And I will repeat this once again, just to try and get it into your head I AGREE MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO STOP PEOPLE ENTERING THE COUNTRY AND TO GET THOSE THAT SHOULDN'T BE HERE OUT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

How many people do you honestly think would vote for a party that said they weren't going to try and reduce and crack down on immigration? I wouldn't vote for them, because that would be a stupid response that would make the situation a lot worse. However, I also won't vote for a party that goes on about immigration like it's the only problem and that everything will be fine if we just stopped foreigners coming over here, because that's just as stupid and all these people are going to be massively disappointed when they also fail to solve the crisis through that one issue and make many other things worse while trying.

We've literally been here before. A guy called Farage claiming everything that was wrong with Britain was because of a group of foreigners (the EU) and if we left everything would be great (including immigration going down and having greater control of our borders). Others were saying yes, there are problems with the EU but leaving isn't the answer and things not only won't improve if we leave they will likely get worse if we do as there's so many other factors to consider. But those people were labelled Project Fear and told that they weren't listening. They didn't understand what people thought and felt. Meanwhile Farage and his ilk were busy preying on people's fears and making claims that weren't true, but that's what people thought and felt so that's ok and we needed to leave as a protest as people weren't being listened to. How has that turned out? Whose predictions and warnings turned out to be pretty accurate and whose turned out to be a load of rabble-rousing nonsense?

Well we're here again, and the fact you've not been listening or paying attention to what has played out over the the last decade as to the repercussions of pretty much the same argument is on you. Just like with Brexit, I am telling you now that not only will Reform not get close to fixing the problems with immigration there will be a load of other areas which will get worse from what they do because they can't see the bigger picture. So f you want to put that down to people like me 'not listening' then that's up to you, but don't start complaining when what we're warning you about now comes to pass.

PVA said:

And that's fine, there is (presumably!) nothing illegal about what he's doing.

But don't then moan about the state of the UK and beg for handouts from the UK government.

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You say presumably. Do you have doubts?

Grendel said:

If anyone on here was worth £17billion they would be paying any tax they don’t have to. That’s why Jimbo has that money in the first place

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And also a big reason why the country is in a state. It'd be like me having more food than I could ever possibly eat but refusing to share what I have because why should I, it's mine, then complaining because other people are starving to death and stealing trying to feed themselves. It's a complete failure to see the bigger picture and rather than being a clever thing to do it's actually monumentally stupid.

Grendel said:

You say presumably. Do you have doubts?

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I wouldn't be overly surprised if it turned out to be the case because he's an awful c**t, but I assume it is all above board and legal.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

And also a big reason why the country is in a state. It'd be like me having more food than I could ever possibly eat but refusing to share what I have because why should I, it's mine, then complaining because other people are starving to death and stealing trying to feed themselves. It's a complete failure to see the bigger picture and rather than being a clever thing to do it's actually monumentally stupid.

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Is it refusing to share?

Oh dear.
You have to wonder I think.

Birmingham arrests after lorry carrying 33 migrants stopped - BBC News Birmingham arrests after lorry carrying 33 migrants stopped

PVA said:

I wouldn't be overly surprised if it turned out to be the case because he's an awful c**t, but I assume it is all above board and legal.

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I assume Mr Blair - who you said is “no different” to other PMs Is also awful for his tax Affairs?

Nick said:

Is it refusing to share?

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Well, yes. He's worth around £15bn. The average person in the UK is worth £275k. Worldwide average wealth is around £65k (and there will be a lot far below that).
There is nothing that can justify that level of discrepancy. It is purely greed (which could be defined as as an unwillingness to share)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Well, yes. He's worth around £15bn. The average person in the UK is worth £275k. Worldwide average wealth is around £65k (and there will be a lot far below that).
There is nothing that can justify that level of discrepancy. It is purely greed (which could be defined as as an unwillingness to share)

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Quick google says he has a charity that is helping child poverty in the UK as well as building part of a childrens hospital? Sounds like sharing to me.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Well, yes. He's worth around £15bn. The average person in the UK is worth £275k. Worldwide average wealth is around £65k (and there will be a lot far below that).
There is nothing that can justify that level of discrepancy. It is purely greed (which could be defined as as an unwillingness to share)

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Yawn

Nick said:

Quick google says he has a charity that is helping child poverty in the UK as well as building part of a childrens hospital? Sounds like sharing to me.

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Perhaps we could build more hospitals and help more children out of poverty if he paid his fair share rather than buggering off to Monaco to avoid tax? And perhaps less children would be in poverty if he didn't cut jobs in deprived areas like Falkirk and Hull? Or if he didn't make massive cuts to the charitable part of Man Utd?

He has over 400 times the wealth of the average person. He owns 2 yachts and 5 jets. His charitable work barely leaves a scratch on the surface of his wealth. Plus he'll be getting tax breaks and govt grants (like the one he got to build a luxury ski clubhouse in France for 'disadvantaged kids', cos everyone knows disadvantaged kids get the chance to go skiing all the time) so it's swings and roundabouts. You'd be making more of a charitable donation as a proportion of your wealth and income if you stuck a fiver in a charity tin.

He paid tax whilst earning it, including a reported £110m in 2018. More than the combined forum will pay in a lifetime. Why should he continue to contribute if he doesnt live here or isnt taking anything out of the economy? Do you hate everyone who has £1 more than you?

rob9872 said:

Why should he continue to contribute if he doesnt live here or isnt taking anything out of the economy?

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He has received £500m in government support in recent years and asked the government to pay for Man Utds new stadium.

PVA said:

He has received £500m in government support in recent years and asked the government to pay for Man Utds new stadium.

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He has?

Nick said:

He has?

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I think his companies have.

Nick said:

He has?

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At Grangemouth to help secure thousands of UK jobs ... all of whom will pay tax into the UK economy. It would also come with many assurances, not simply a handout, but let's not let the truth get in the way of shouting down a rich man.

rob9872 said:

At Grangemouth to help secure thousands of UK jobs ... all of whom will pay tax into the UK economy. It would also come with many assurances, not simply a handout, but let's not let the truth get in the way of shouting down a rich man.

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I was just trying to figure out if the government are sending grants to his personal account.

It is jealousy as per usual.

Nobody has tried to argue the colonised stuff, just that he's moved to Monaco and his numbers were wrong...

rob9872 said:

The 12 million figure is net immigration since 2001 from 58m to 70m population. Not sure what JR was referring to as I've not seen the quote. If we continue to accelerate at over 20% increase in a generation with already not enough housing and resources then we're finished as a prosperous country.

On 58k leaving, that would be fine if more than 58k in the same period hadn't arrived, but we're not even net zero versus the boats which as we all know is only a small part of illegal immigration.

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Less than 58k have come in on boats in that time haven’t they?

chiefdave said:

What policy of Reforms do you think will have a bigger impact in their first 12 months in power?

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Navy bombing the boats

Grendel said:

You say presumably. Do you have doubts?

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£17bn is obscene

Nick said:

I was just trying to figure out if the government are sending grants to his personal account.

It is jealousy as per usual.

Nobody has tried to argue the colonised stuff, just that he's moved to Monaco and his numbers were wrong...

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It’s dehumanising language of a huge group of people it’s just wrong

Sky Blue Pete said:

Less than 58k have come in on boats in that time haven’t they?

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Probably about 10% of the total average of the last 30years then, but you'd have to factor the recency of the it all,, same with official population growth to special reasons like HK UKRAINE?

Sky Blue Pete said:

It’s dehumanising language of a huge group of people it’s just wrong

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yeah fucking nonsense innit

Sky Blue Pete said:

Less than 58k have come in on boats in that time haven’t they?

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Since Jan 25 it's 42405.
In 2024 it was 36816

I dont have the month data, but 58k out is since July 24, so can fairly assume 50% of 24 figures based on weather etc, so around 60k total in.

*Edit was actually 23k in 2nd half of 24, so around 65k inbound.

Personally I think the vast majority of people are pretty much on the same page when it comes to immigration and asylum. Sure there will be outliers who don't want a single person coming into the country or who believe in completely open borders but while they may make a not of noise that's not the norm.

The difference comes in whether you believe pretty much everything wrong in the country is the fault of immigrants or if you believe the huge transfer of wealth to those at the top has had an impact.

The reason incumbents are struggling around the world is because there's no easy fix so the other big difference is whether you believe the promises of those who claim they can solve all the issues.

Given that in this country those people are largely the ones who told us Brexit would solve everything and who also seem unable to put forward any actual policies that stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny I have my doubts. Many others clearly think differently.

Just watching executions the rise and fall of capital punishment
Amazing we want to turn the clock back