Higgs v SISU Court Document (3 Viewers)

[lordsummerisle]

The strange thing is that I've noticed some people on this forum who criticise these actions and yet try to imply that they are in some way not the responsibility of the current management.
Furthermore they occasionally attempt to lay the blame for the situation on previous regimes of Geoffrey Robinson etc..

The fact is that the current predicament is SISUs mess, they are responsible and they should pay for it, no one else.

Plenty who think that Sisu made great appointments such as Thorne despite Sisu.

Not signing MK for longer is the only thing I 'd give them credit for, stongly outweighed by them allowing the woman beating twat to be signed in the first place.

 

---

[Houdi]

Admittedly haven't bothered to plough through all the court documents, but reading the comments on here it seems that CCC/ACL are being criticised a great deal more ,but with no real smoking gun. The main criticism appears to be that they have behaved in a more ruthless and underhand way towards SISU. Bearing in mind that SISU seem to delight in being ruthless operators, then maybe CCC/ACL are merely fighting fire with fire. Both parties appear to see this as a fight to the finish, so maybe CCC/ACL feel they need to adopt the same ruthless tactics that SISU have always shown.
I'm sure a lot of people suspect that if SISU could annex the Ricoh it would, if it felt that liquidating the club was in its best interest it would, all without a single moments concern for the citizens or supporters of Coventry City.
Hopefully the old adage that possession is 9/10 of the law,still holds. Presently CCC and ACL are the lawful and legal owners of the Ricoh (freehold and leasehold) and that should only change if a satisfactory deal can be done to the satisfaction of both parties not just one.

 

[James Smith]

Labovitch merely proves my point that Sisu are shite at PR.

Yup that's true and we can probably include Tim in that statement too. Still not sure what Mr Labovitch brings to the club other than the appearance of being flustered and shifty on the radio when asked simple questions.

 

[Nick]

Admittedly haven't bothered to plough through all the court documents, but reading the comments on here it seems that CCC/ACL are being criticised a great deal more ,but with no real smoking gun. The main criticism appears to be that they have behaved in a more ruthless and underhand way towards SISU. Bearing in mind that SISU seem to delight in being ruthless operators, then maybe CCC/ACL are merely fighting fire with fire. Both parties appear to see this as a fight to the finish, so maybe CCC/ACL feel they need to adopt the same ruthless tactics that SISU have always shown.
I'm sure a lot of people suspect that if SISU could annex the Ricoh it would, if it felt that liquidating the club was in its best interest it would, all without a single moments concern for the citizens or supporters of Coventry City.
Hopefully the old adage that possession is 9/10 of the law,still holds. Presently CCC and ACL are the lawful and legal owners of the Ricoh (freehold and leasehold) and that should only change if a satisfactory deal can be done to the satisfaction of both parties not just one.

Read the documents

 

[Bennoisback]

I have been saying for months (sorry arguing) that all three sides have things to answer to. I in the past have blamed SISU for everything, however Coventry council have a lot to answer for...........and not the first time the council have been underhanded!!!
The question has to be who which of these three wants the club to return to Coventry the most, without making false promises or for their OWN finical gain.
all three sides have made our club an embarrassment but only one continues to fund it...........like them or hate them the club only continues because SISU fund it. I am not a SISU supporter or employee before being accused of this, just honest enough to understand they own the club and do put money in unlike the council who want the money but not really the club.

 

[dongonzalos]

Labovitch merely proves my point that Sisu are shite at PR.

Don't see why people criticise the charity for doing PR.
by doing PR it means they actually speak to us.
It is not their fault SISU are terrible at PR.
SISU need to up their game on that front as oppose to the Higgs Charity stopping.

 

[Nick]

PR / Media / Marketing doesn't always mean "speaking to people" does it?

 

[limoncello]

Pay me £600 per hour and I'd speak to absolutely anyone.

 

[James Smith]

PR / Media / Marketing doesn't always mean "speaking to people" does it?

E.S.P? Ah you must mean Psychic Sally

 

[Hobo]

PR / Media / Marketing doesn't always mean "speaking to people" does it?

No but it is about communication and publicising and building a positive marketing relationship with the public.

Keeping people on board so they see you in a positive light.

 

[Nick]

No but it is about communication and publicising and building a positive marketing relationship with the public.

Keeping people on board so they see you in a positive light.

Or others in a bad light

 

[Hobo]

Or others in a bad light

Not always needed, some organisations do it naturally ;-)

 

[martcov]

I have been saying for months (sorry arguing) that all three sides have things to answer to. I in the past have blamed SISU for everything, however Coventry council have a lot to answer for...........and not the first time the council have been underhanded!!!
The question has to be who which of these three wants the club to return to Coventry the most, without making false promises or for their OWN finical gain.
all three sides have made our club an embarrassment but only one continues to fund it...........like them or hate them the club only continues because SISU fund it. I am not a SISU supporter or employee before being accused of this, just honest enough to understand they own the club and do put money in unlike the council who want the money but not really the club.

It's great that they have kept us alive the last few years, but I doubt the motives are because they particulary want the soccer club. It is more likely that by keeping the club alive they can get a deal on the stadium - their stated aim. Sorry to disappoint you. The council are trying not to lose money or an asset below value. They didn't get involved for the sole purpose of making money as did SISU.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Don't see why people criticise the charity for doing PR.
.

Who's criticising the Higgs Charity for PR?

 

[Godiva]

Don't see why people criticise the charity for doing PR.
by doing PR it means they actually speak to us.
It is not their fault SISU are terrible at PR.
SISU need to up their game on that front as oppose to the Higgs Charity stopping.

You're right - sisu are terrible at PR. They could really learn from ACL:

AEHC would cooperate with the Council in a public relations
campaign designed to paint the conduct of the Council, AEHC and
ACL in as good a light as possible and to discredit the SISU
Group so far as possible.

 

[lordsummerisle]

You're right - sisu are terrible at PR. They could really learn from ACL:

AEHC would cooperate with the Council in a public relations
campaign designed to paint the conduct of the Council, AEHC and
ACL in as good a light as possible and to discredit the SISU
Group so far as possible.

PWKH not been on here for a while has he?

 

[wingy]

You're right - sisu are terrible at PR. They could really learn from ACL:

AEHC would cooperate with the Council in a public relations
campaign designed to paint the conduct of the Council, AEHC and
ACL in as good a light as possible and to discredit the SISU
Group so far as possible.

Shameful.
Especially as the Legal fees wasted from both the other parties would have given the charity near to it's initial Investment back,every body happy .

Oh and the paper work you put up about the agreement by all to the Rent Strike as part of the ruse to the Bank ,i suggest you read the bit where the emails and letters From Higgs and CCC were sent within a week to ten days saying the opposite .

 

[Godiva]

Shameful.
Especially as the Legal fees wasted from both the other parties would have given the charity near to it's initial Investment back,every body happy .

Oh and the paper work you put up about the agreement by all to the Rent Strike as part of the ruse to the Bank ,i suggest you read the bit where the emails and letters From Higgs and CCC were sent within a week to ten days saying the opposite .

Yes, but then they actually used the strategy themselves, didn't they?

CCC should unilaterally buy out the loan and then refinance the YB
loan to ACL, but with the support and agreement of Higgs as our
partner
...
in parallel I believe that we need to put together some thinking about
how the Council and Higgs Charity jointly should approach
Yorkshire Bank
.
We will need to paint a picture of significant
potential woe for the future of ACL. The lack of a rent agreement
and the Court judgement against the Football Club will of course be
of significant help here
...
There is no doubt the Bank could at any
point take their own action to enforce security, as the loan is showing
signs of distress with the public knowledge of CCFC rent arrears and
ACL court action.

(Chris West, August 2012)

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Joy has no interest in the football club and is only interested in the Ricoh arena complex. Once accepted everything fits and our pain will be over when they sell or liquidate the club on realising you have to pay money for a major asset

 

[wingy]

Yes, but then they actually used the strategy themselves, didn't they?

CCC should unilaterally buy out the loan and then refinance the YB
loan to ACL, but with the support and agreement of Higgs as our
partner
...
in parallel I believe that we need to put together some thinking about
how the Council and Higgs Charity jointly should approach
Yorkshire Bank
.
We will need to paint a picture of significant
potential woe for the future of ACL. The lack of a rent agreement
and the Court judgement against the Football Club will of course be
of significant help here
...
There is no doubt the Bank could at any
point take their own action to enforce security, as the loan is showing
signs of distress with the public knowledge of CCFC rent arrears and
ACL court action.

(Chris West, August 2012)

Oh yeah, What. an Idiot trying to play the savvy city suits.
Trumped by asset shift for sure
Still for £750. +int a wk over the 100 leaseterm it's obviously more logical to kill both brands

 

[torchomatic]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

 

[lordsummerisle]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

Embracing ignorance like a partcularly cosy duvet with a My Little Pony cover on it.

 

[Nick]

The thing is with the PR, you also had people like the Trust / KCIC etc involved. If SISU did anything then the Trust was straight to the CET damning it. They got a legal warning, straight to the CET and "fans threatened by SISU".

I am pretty sure things go on all the time, just people don't run to the CET to shout about it People then only see the one side and treat it as gospel without trying to look at ALL sides.

Some sides have the Trust etc doing their PR too, don't they?

Pretty quiet since the court case, if Higgs got their costs would it have been?

What I like is the fella who says "well SISU own us, that means everything that happens to us is their fault". I own a car, if somebody smashes into it in a car park, it is not my fault is it?

The blind hatred / love is embarrassing sometimes.

 

[martcov]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

Not necessarily. It has been proven that CCC have also used subterfuge - we don't however know if it is "equally as shady" because we don't have access to SISU's emails. Theirs could be far worse. We don't know why CCC acted as they did - we have only selected excerpts of the story. Steve West not telling SISU is not the end of the world as he didn't legally have to. The same as SISU approached YB without telling Higgs. They didn't have to.

 

[Nick]

Not necessarily. It has been proven that CCC have also used subterfuge - we don't however know if it is "equally as shady" because we don't have access to SISU's emails. Theirs could be far worse. We don't know why CCC acted as they did - we have only selected excerpts of the story. Steve West not telling SISU is not the end of the world as he didn't legally have to. The same as SISU approached YB without telling Higgs. They didn't have to.

I don't think anybody denies SISU have been dodgy or that they are proud of them.... You still have people creaming over the council. In my eyes anybody who has any part to blame for the mess (1% or 100%) should be held responsible.

 

[martcov]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

I don't think anybody denies SISU have been dodgy or that they are proud of them.... You still have people creaming over the council. In my eyes anybody who has any part to blame for the mess (1% or 100%) should be held responsible.

Yes, but held responsible in relationship to their involvement.

 

[Nick]

No, full stop. Not this "oh SISU are 80% to blame, it doesn't matter about the rest" shite.

 

[torchomatic]

As I said...."yeah but, out of context..."

Not necessarily. It has been proven that CCC have also used subterfuge - we don't however know if it is "equally as shady" because we don't have access to SISU's emails. Theirs could be far worse. We don't know why CCC acted as they did - we have only selected excerpts of the story. Steve West not telling SISU is not the end of the world as he didn't legally have to. The same as SISU approached YB without telling Higgs. They didn't have to.

 

[tbh444]

I don't think anybody denies SISU have been dodgy or that they are proud of them.... You still have people creaming over the council. In my eyes anybody who has any part to blame for the mess (1% or 100%) should be held responsible.

I'm guessing anything less than blind hatred for the council = 'creaming' in this context, because I see a hell of that on this thread, beyond all rationality, and not a hell of a lot of creaming.

 

[martcov]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

No, full stop. Not this "oh SISU are 80% to blame, it doesn't matter about the rest" shite.

SISU are responsible, they are the owners. That said, CCC have not made their life easy. I have also had dealings with councils ( including CCC ). Last year I won against Hamburg, but had 2000,00€ legal costs to pay ( both sides paid their own costs ). So I am not a council lover. That said, you can swallow your pride and try to negotiate - Joy won't.

 

[skybluefred]

Not necessarily. It has been proven that CCC have also used subterfuge - we don't however know if it is "equally as shady" because we don't have access to SISU's emails. Theirs could be far worse. We don't know why CCC acted as they did - we have only selected excerpts of the story. Steve West not telling SISU is not the end of the world as he didn't legally have to. The same as SISU approached YB without telling Higgs. They didn't have to.

Surely sisu would not have the right to approach YB about paying off some other Co's mortgage without that Co's
agreement.

 

[martcov]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

Surely sisu would not have the right to approach YB about paying off some other Co's mortgage without that Co's
agreement.

According to SISU they didn't have to.

 

[Nick]

According to SISU they didn't have to.

Neither did ccc else they wouldn't have threatened.the media.assault

 

[martcov]

You're wasting your time, Godiva. Some will never see our situation as a two-way thing, they're too entrenched. There have been a few choice comments from ACL in the documents usually met with "yeah, but....out of context...yeah but...."

The comments from CCC are pretty damning I think. Of course, SISU are still culpable for way more of the blame, but I for one am pleased that it is now being proven that CCC were equally as shady in some of their actions.

Neither did ccc else they wouldn't have threatened.the media.assault

? Nothing to do with just approaching the YB.

 

[Nick]

? Nothing to do with just approaching the YB.

What do you mean?