here comes fisher (9 Viewers)

[luwalla]

Have you got 30 seconds to spare? If so give your head a good shake. See if you can wake your brain cells up

When the build of the Ricoh went tits up interest rates were much higher than now. 70m of the build came from Tescos. More came along with naming rights from Ricoh. Compass paid towards it with catering rights. Might have been a bit more as well. This left a shortfall still.

Higgs put 6m in. There was still a shortfall. A loan was also taken out. Think this was 14m.....could be wrong but think this is right. Repayments for the loan were 1.2m per year. Rent set at 1.2m. It was left as it was when rent was being paid. SISU then stop paying rent. But at this time interest rates had fallen significantly as we all know. ACL managed to get the repayments reduced to 400k. Were SISU happy with this? Were they bs. They wanted Higgs to walk away with nothing and take over the small loan on the stadium. Yet some blame ACL, which is Higgs and the council that saved us from being without a ground.

Maybe ACL were to blame for not remortgaging earlier so the rent could be reduced at an earlier time, but to hold them to blame anywhere near as much as SISU shows a massive bias to SISU or an inability to understand what has been going on.

for a start an agreement was in place with the higgs for their 50% , rumored to be 10 million .. on top of that they also offered to take over the loans of 21 million ( is that a small loan ? ).. all of the above declined by the council!.

as i understand it, the council were the only ones to not actually put any money into the ricoh ( until recently when they used public money to pay off the mortgage ).. the club invested heavily until they ran out of money, yet they own none of the stadium.. the higgs invested 6 mill, but were happy to sell heir 50% back to the club.. yet the council were simply guarantor to a loan on the project.. and now they seem to hold all the power now.. sorry but thats wrong & has led to where we are today

i dont know , or profess to know what the agreed fee was with the higgs - but it appears the club certainly werent trying to "take it for nothing" , as you say.. i get my info from news stories & statements made ( like this - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/exclusive-sisu-strikes-coventry-city-3019922 )... like most of us do.. and unlike yourself, i dont profess to be any higher authority on the situation

yet you seem pretty confident that all this was not the case.. fair enough.. maybe you have some insider knowledge..

but as others have said, just get the deal done now.. and let the club move forward. keeping hold of the stadium for themselves is doing nothing for the club .. sisu will move.. that will be bad for the ricoh.. and disastrous for our club

 

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[Delboycov]

I agree. Use the money we are going to give NTFC to ACL. The problem is ACL won't negotiate with SISU. The phrase Mutton used was "hell will freeze over before we talk to SISU". Then you get fans writing to ACL telling them not to sell. Then you get fans on here saying they hope ACL take them to the cleaners, etc.

If the City Council and ACL had truly wanted to support the Club, it would have taken up the offer made by SISU to pay off its debt and extend the lease. Instead it used £14 million of public money to stop the deal happening.

As far as Fisher is concerned there is nothing left to say. It is now up to Lucas and ACL. Whether you or I agree with that is irrelevant, only they can stop our Club from going to Northampton.

I thought the phrase EX Council leader Mutton was 'reported' to have used was "Hell will freeze over before we SELL to SISU" Might ultimately mean the same thing but I think it's only fair he's not misquoted with the implication he was completely intransigent and unwilling to talk at all.

 

[Moff]

Where's the academy going Tim? Why can't you move the contracts back into Ltd and negotiate at the Ricoh Tim?

He says that breaking the suicide pact with Northampton would be expensive. It's expensive to pay a bond with the League, it's expensive to put on free transport to Northampton every week, it's expensive to build a football stadium and buy the land, it's costly to limit your crowds to 7,000 versus 32,500 and it's expensive hiring an administrator to hand you back an empty company.

Great post BSB. So many valid points.

 

[covcity4life]

fishers phone number is on twitter,going straight to answer machine(if it is him)

 

[Sky Blues]

for a start an agreement was in place with the higgs for their 50% , rumored to be 10 million .. on top of that they also offered to take over the loans of 21 million ( is that a small loan ? ).. all of the above declined by the council!.

as i understand it, the council were the only ones to not actually put any money into the ricoh ( until recently when they used public money to pay off the mortgage ).. the club invested heavily until they ran out of money, yet they own none of the stadium.. the higgs invested 6 mill, but were happy to sell heir 50% back to the club.. yet the council were simply guarantor to a loan on the project.. and now they seem to hold all the power now.. sorry but thats wrong & has led to where we are today

i dont know , or profess to know what the agreed fee was with the higgs - but it appears the club certainly werent trying to "take it for nothing" , as you say.. i get my info from news stories & statements made ( like this - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/exclusive-sisu-strikes-coventry-city-3019922 )... like most of us do.. and unlike yourself, i dont profess to be any higher authority on the situation

yet you seem pretty confident that all this was not the case.. fair enough.. maybe you have some insider knowledge..

but as others have said, just get the deal done now.. and let the club move forward. keeping hold of the stadium for themselves is doing nothing for the club .. sisu will move.. that will be bad for the ricoh.. and disastrous for our club

Here are the details of the Ricoh financing: http://democraticservices.coventry....08 - Arena Construction Completion Report.pdf

 

[olderskyblue]

It's gone passed that point now. All that matters is that Fisher/ACL swallow what little pride either have left and do a deal for the good of the City and the fans. Nothing else matters. Least of all your fucking percentages.

It's all too late for that now. Fisher said breaking the agreement with NT would be very expensive, he has all the admin costs piled up, other costs for the JR. The deal he agreed with ACL before reneging is now a bargain compared to all the additional debt he has racked up, and will rack up over the next 5 years.

 

[Ashdown1]

So what does that say?
You could argue that SISU is continuing to put their money where their mouth is, the only problem people have is working out what their end game is. It's widely assumed that SISU want to sell because of the losses so far, and that's clearly the way that many people would act in SISU's place - after all, why keep throwing good money after bad?
BUT - that's clearly not the way that SISU are thinking, their actions tell you that. To me it looks like they see an end game of having a reasonably successful team in its own stadium as having a potential price tag that will be worth selling, and protecting their investors' investments. They realise that it is a longer term operation and that's why they are funding whatever they think it might take, and having to live with a load of shite from the fans - after all, a successful team will start pulling in the fans again. Even if the die-hards keep their pledges never to support them again there will be others to take their places. (Forget the £70M debt - as has been said on here before that's only a figure to fend off any hostile takeover bids, it's not real money).

'A successful team'.......................Oh dear, yup we look like hot favourites right now for what..............relegation maybe !

 

[The Penguin]

It's all too late for that now. Fisher said breaking the agreement with NT would be very expensive

It's okay, they're successful business people, they know what they're doing.

:jerkit:

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

hahaha WHAT part of that is backing up fisher.. im simply stating the facts.. because it seems some people are so blinded by the hatred for fisher.. that they think ACL smell of roses here.. despite the fact ACL dont do anything about these 'supposed' lies he keeps telling.. and they wont come onto radio and answer questions..

For the last time; they can't. There's a judicial review and sub judice means that if they comment, they could be found to be in contempt of courts.

SISU, and Fisher don't care for such, evidently - and their respect for the courts has been the subject of some condemnation by judges in the past. Just because they may be prepared to incur the wrath of the courts, doesn't mean everyone has to

 

[The Penguin]

For the last time; they can't. There's a judicial review and sub judice means that if they comment, they could be found to be in contempt of courts.

SISU, and Fisher don't care for such, evidently - and their respect for the courts has been the subject of some condemnation by judges in the past. Just because they may be prepared to incur the wrath of the courts, doesn't mean everyone has to

They had no problems with sub judice when it came to giving answers to the Sky Blue Trust though.

Ironic eh?

 

[chiefdave]

Joy really needs to stop Fisher speaking, every time he opens his mouth it becomes more and more obvious he isn't telling the truth. How blatent a lie do you want than saying ACL won't talk to you a day after ACL have publically said they want the club to stay there and are open to talks?!? He sounded less sure of himself then ever, he knows he's tying himself up in knots and is finding it harder and harder to come up with excuses.

 

[just-here-4-coffee]

It's all too late for that now. Fisher said breaking the agreement with NT would be very expensive, he has all the admin costs piled up, other costs for the JR. The deal he agreed with ACL before reneging is now a bargain compared to all the additional debt he has racked up, and will rack up over the next 5 years.

Opinion not fact.

 

[torchomatic]

SISU aren't stupid. They'll be a "get-out" clause.

It's all too late for that now. Fisher said breaking the agreement with NT would be very expensive, he has all the admin costs piled up, other costs for the JR. The deal he agreed with ACL before reneging is now a bargain compared to all the additional debt he has racked up, and will rack up over the next 5 years.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Opinion not fact.

Which part? The word 'bargain' is of course subjective however the numbers make for overwhelmingly more money to be made at the Ricoh than Sixfields, even if Sixfields is sold out every Sunday afternoon.

 

[torchomatic]

I took it as the same thing, but you're right, so apologies if I have misquoted him.

I thought the phrase EX Council leader Mutton was 'reported' to have used was "Hell will freeze over before we SELL to SISU" Might ultimately mean the same thing but I think it's only fair he's not misquoted with the implication he was completely intransigent and unwilling to talk at all.

 

[Ashdown1]

Not stupid just bare faced fucking liars !

 

[Evo1883]

From this point forward there is nobody to blame but SISU , THEY had every opportunity to leave ccfc and let somebody else take over , THEY claim not to be able to spend 300k on a rent agreement each year but can spend 1 mill up front on an agreement with the FL ,THEY are taking ccfc away from coventry and the fans .
And for anybody suggesting that they wouldnt just walk away from what they have spent already ,look at it this way ,they are happy to go deeper in the red with a ground move and build a NEW ground incurring a shed ton more debt.
THEY have destroyed ccfc , not ACL not the COUNCIL .....SISU
WHACK A BIT OF RICHARDSON AS A SIDE ORDER AND THERE WE HAVE A SCUM SANDWICH

 

[Astute]

for a start an agreement was in place with the higgs for their 50% , rumored to be 10 million .. on top of that they also offered to take over the loans of 21 million ( is that a small loan ? ).. all of the above declined by the council!.

as i understand it, the council were the only ones to not actually put any money into the ricoh ( until recently when they used public money to pay off the mortgage ).. the club invested heavily until they ran out of money, yet they own none of the stadium.. the higgs invested 6 mill, but were happy to sell heir 50% back to the club.. yet the council were simply guarantor to a loan on the project.. and now they seem to hold all the power now.. sorry but thats wrong & has led to where we are today

i dont know , or profess to know what the agreed fee was with the higgs - but it appears the club certainly werent trying to "take it for nothing" , as you say.. i get my info from news stories & statements made ( like this - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/exclusive-sisu-strikes-coventry-city-3019922 )... like most of us do.. and unlike yourself, i dont profess to be any higher authority on the situation

yet you seem pretty confident that all this was not the case.. fair enough.. maybe you have some insider knowledge..

but as others have said, just get the deal done now.. and let the club move forward. keeping hold of the stadium for themselves is doing nothing for the club .. sisu will move.. that will be bad for the ricoh.. and disastrous for our club

You either don't understand or don't want to understand. It was refinanced with a new loan. No money has come from the taxpayer. SISU are doing what they can to break ACL. This is what the move away from Coventry is all about.

ACL have not said they won't talk to SISU. As things stand they legally can't. Not until our club is out of admin. Fisher has twisted a can't to a won't. As we can see some have fallen for it. You know he is full of shit but you still believe what he says :facepalm:

I would be all for SISU paying Higgs what they have put in ant taking over the mortgage to get ownership of the Ricoh. But would the ground become part of our club? Or would it become just another part of SISU? If they did what most of us think they would if they got the ground we would struggle to ever get one again.

I just hope it don't take liquidation to sort this mess out that SISU have caused.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

SISU aren't stupid. They'll be a "get-out" clause.

Yeah. Not paying it. Folding the latest business; reshuffling the pack, call Appleton; voila!

 

[olderskyblue]

SISU aren't stupid. They'll be a "get-out" clause.

Maybe the NT Chairman isn't stupid either, and made sure there isn't a get-out clause...

or if there is, there is a premium to be paid for it... more debt racking up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You either don't understand or don't want to understand. It was refinanced with a new loan. No money has come from the taxpayer. SISU are doing what they can to break ACL. This is what the move away from Coventry is all about.

ACL have not said they won't talk to SISU. As things stand they legally can't. Not until our club is out of admin. Fisher has twisted a can't to a won't. As we can see some have fallen for it. You know he is full of shit but you still believe what he says :facepalm:

I would be all for SISU paying Higgs what they have put in ant taking over the mortgage to get ownership of the Ricoh. But would the ground become part of our club? Or would it become just another part of SISU? If they did what most of us think they would if they got the ground we would struggle to ever get one again.

I just hope it don't take liquidation to sort this mess out that SISU have caused.

Is negotiation with Holdings not possible?

 

[chiefdave]

Maybe the NT Chairman isn't stupid either, and made sure there isn't a get-out clause...

or if there is, there is a premium to be paid for it... more debt racking up.

Not to say that Fisher isn't telling the truth but the Northampton chap was on thier local breakfast show and said there was no problem with getting out of the contract!

 

[Astute]

Is negotiation with Holdings not possible?

If it can take the FL and administrator ages to work out where the golden share is how is anybody supposed to know which part of the tangled web each part has been caught up in?

 

[rupert_bear]

Can't be bothered to read all the posts, I did listen to the interview and a number of times he mentioned not being able to tap into the revenue streams, I think he said that's what this is all about, and that the main reason why they plan to go ahead and build a new stadium. What Shane O'Conner, who I like by the way, again failed to ask is why three or four years ago did that Onye bloke turn down the opportunity to buy the Higgs Charity shares. At the recent forums Fisher when asked about this appeared to be amazed and disappointed with that Onye decision. Just makes me think what ever plan sisu are pursuing was planned years ago.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If it can take the FL and administrator ages to work out where the golden share is how is anybody supposed to know which part of the tangled web each part has been caught up in?

If Fisher is being honest then the contracts and everything else attached to what makes a football club is now in Holdings with only the old Ricoh lease in Ltd. This I think is why ACL will only deal with Ltd and hence the administrator who runs it because in their eyes the lease is still valid and they can't enter into discussions with anybody else while it stands. If the lease is terminated from ACL's end or by Ltd's liquidation I assume it would allow Holdings to negotiate a new one.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

This pisses me off, it doesn't transcend football because it's a damn football stadium, without the club there it becomes a nonentity. The fact you side with the council through all this speakss volumes.

Like it or not, the Ricoh Arena is more than just a football stadium.

Just ask the vast majority of the people that went to the Springsteen concert, the vast majority of locals that went to see the Olympics there, the vast majority of the people that went to see the Davis Cup in the Exhibition Hall... I could go on...

Until the football club is run by trustworthy people it will not and should not have an interest in it.

Suffice to say it should not be handed over to an outside company with no interest in the community, trying to make a quick buck.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I do not want you to take from that, that I don't want the football club to own the stadium. Quite the oppisite, I would love the club to own it.

But I don't want SISU to own it. They are not the club. Or at least, don't represent the club in the community sense.

 

[procdoc]

I fear that the move to Northampton will end up meaning the club will never return to Coventry. If it did return it wouldn't have a fanbase of any significance to return to

 

[torchomatic]

But all the events you mention aren't guaranteed. There are many stadiums that now host concerts and the Ricoh is competing against them.

The attitude of "should not have an interest in it" is one of the reasons we are where we are. You and others including ACL, Mutton have expressed the same view. Is it any wonder that Fisher called your bluff which has now resulted in this dreadful action?

Like it or not, the Ricoh Arena is more than just a football stadium.

Just ask the vast majority of the people that went to the Springsteen concert, the vast majority of locals that went to see the Olympics there, the vast majority of the people that went to see the Davis Cup in the Exhibition Hall... I could go on...

Until the football club is run by trustworthy people it will not and should not have an interest in it.

Suffice to say it should not be handed over to an outside company with no interest in the community, trying to make a quick buck.

 

[The Penguin]

The attitude of "should not have an interest in it" is one of the reasons we are where we are. You and others including ACL, Mutton have expressed the same view. Is it any wonder that Fisher called your bluff which has now resulted in this dreadful action?

In fairness, SISU have done very little to engender trust in them. Consequently people worry that even if they got hold of the entire Ricoh complex, it would be put to use for their own gains; and we would be left out in the cold. Not being able to even guarantee we would own our 'new ground' just made things worse.

I've said before that any deal to give us part of, or all of, the stadium should be conditional on the football club; and only the football club; having possession and benefit of the complex.

While I don't share the 'we will never sell' mantra of Coventry City Council, I certainly understand why Ginetta holds the position he does.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

so what the club ( fisher ) are saying is true then , you agree..

i think you are right.. but like it or not, SISU are coventry city football club...

Its certainly took some people to realise that so what youre saying if you support Coventry City you are supporting Sisu.
I dont care if Acl have said they will not deal with Sisu the twat has just shown what he is prepared to do to us what the fuck do you think he would do to the Ricoh? Sell the roof as scrap metal run the place into the ground load debt onto it like theres no tomorrow and then fuck off same outcome no club. So if they did say they're right.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

But all the events you mention aren't guaranteed. There are many stadiums that now host concerts and the Ricoh is competing against them.

The attitude of "should not have an interest in it" is one of the reasons we are where we are. You and others including ACL, Mutton have expressed the same view. Is it any wonder that Fisher called your bluff which has now resulted in this dreadful action?

Just to clarify, you would advocate SISU owning the Ricoh Arena?

 

[ajsccfc]

I fear that the move to Northampton will end up meaning the club will never return to Coventry. If it did return it wouldn't have a fanbase of any significance to return to

I see either it either being shelved at the last minute or a return hastily negotiated within weeks, or we just stay adrift for good. I don't see any three to five year plan as having any kind of substance.

 

[torchomatic]

I agree. I'm not saying SISU are innocent, far from it. However, I've never known so many fans show so much determination in backing ACL/CCC against the Council. SISU aren't our ideal owners, of course they're not, but if they had a stake in the Ricoh now then maybe PH4 could have offered them a bundle to leave. We'll never know now because of the actions of SISU and ACL and the Council and some of our fans. SISU take the lions share of the blame, of course, but ACL aren't the 'ickle innocents made out by the majority on here.

As for Ginetta's position. No, I don't get that. The stadium needs to be owned by the Club and we can't all be judge and jury with every owner and decide if we think they are "fit" or "moral" or "trustworthy" enough to own the stadium.

Because of that attitude Northampton will have two football teams while Coventry won't have any.

In fairness, SISU have done very little to engender trust in them. Consequently people worry that even if they got hold of the entire Ricoh complex, it would be put to use for their own gains; and we would be left out in the cold. Not being able to even guarantee we would own our 'new ground' just made things worse.

I've said before that any deal to give us part of, or all of, the stadium should be conditional on the football club; and only the football club; having possession and benefit of the complex.

While I don't share the 'we will never sell' mantra of Coventry City Council, I certainly understand why Ginetta holds the position he does.

 

[Astute]

If Fisher is being honest then the contracts and everything else attached to what makes a football club is now in Holdings with only the old Ricoh lease in Ltd. This I think is why ACL will only deal with Ltd and hence the administrator who runs it because in their eyes the lease is still valid and they can't enter into discussions with anybody else while it stands. If the lease is terminated from ACL's end or by Ltd's liquidation I assume it would allow Holdings to negotiate a new one.

:facepalm: ointlaugh: