General Election 2019 thread (9 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Ah so he went to a private school then.

Thank you.

Yes. For four years he went to a private school. When he was 7 I’m sure he was making the decisions.

When people talk about “what school did you go to” they don’t mean primary school generally.

Let me guess, Labour members who back the policy and didn’t go to private school are just jealous? Isn’t that the line? Either you’re jealous and spiteful and would never achieve anything so need the state, or you’re a champagne socialist?

Predictable.

 

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[Astute]

Austerity. You try telling someone who has to choose between feeding their kids and keeping them warm that it’s something else.

Austerity. A good one.

What would happen to millions if Brexit went as bad as one would have you believe? Yes. Austerity for millions more.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So are you telling me you would vote for a party that wants to take us out of the EU? Do you think Shmmeee would vote for a party that would take us out of the EU? Do you think anyone on this thread that has been telling us for a few years why Brexit is so bad would vote for a party that would take us out of the EU?

Do you think anyone who has been saying how good it will be to leave the EU for the last few years would vote for a party that would have us remain in the EU?

I am not saying that it is what we should vote about. But you are blind to the truth if you think it won't happen.

I am criticising that a proxy referendum has been called when we could've had a real one in less time, then moved on to the next stage of Brexit or just cancelled it.

 

[skybluetony176]

He could take up UK citizenship.

And what would that change exactly? Would his contribution all of a sudden be worth more because he has a piece of paper? He has a British driving license, is that enough? If he got British citizenship he wouldn’t need to apply for his British passport and could continue to renew his EU passport. He speaks English fluently, he doesn’t even have an accent. If you met him in the street and talked to him you wouldn’t believe for one minute that he came to the U.K. at the age of 19 and the only English he knew was to introduce himself and order a pint of beer. What value is this piece of paper going to add to him for you to justify allowing him “free“ access to the NHS. Free being a meaningless word as he has 40 years of contributing income tax, corporation tax, VAT, National Insurance and goodness knows what else stealth tax.

So here’s someone else I know. A lad I grew up with. A waster, a petty criminal who’s never had a job in his life, an alcoholic drug addict. Same as his parents. Two generations of wasters who’ve never contributed a penny to the system but have weighed heavily on it through prison sentences and a lifestyle that’s demanding on the NHS. Yet you wouldn’t deny them the free access and in their case it really is free because they were born here yet you would deny it to someone who pays for these people’s free access by being a valuable member of society.

 

[Astute]

Yes. For four years he went to a private school. When he was 7 I’m sure he was making the decisions.

When people talk about “what school did you go to” they don’t mean primary school generally.

Let me guess, Labour members who back the policy and didn’t go to private school are just jealous? Isn’t that the line? Either you’re jealous and spiteful and would never achieve anything so need the state, or you’re a champagne socialist?

Predictable.

Predictable?

Well yes I suppose. I point out inaccuracies and you don't like me pointing out that you are wrong. So you try blaming me for something or changing the subject.

So why would I be jealous of Corbyn?

When I was younger only the select few went to Uni. Now you can go to Uni and waste a few years and lots of money on something that won't help much. Not jealous of that either.

I am very happy with life. Never jealous of anything. I set my goal. And unless there is a disaster I will make my goal. There will be many jealous of me. But jealousy is just stupidity.

 

[shmmeee]

So are you telling me you would vote for a party that wants to take us out of the EU? Do you think Shmmeee would vote for a party that would take us out of the EU? Do you think anyone on this thread that has been telling us for a few years why Brexit is so bad would vote for a party that would take us out of the EU?

Do you think anyone who has been saying how good it will be to leave the EU for the last few years would vote for a party that would have us remain in the EU?

I am not saying that it is what we should vote about. But you are blind to the truth if you think it won't happen.

Wait. You know I vote Labour and they literally have a policy that could lead to us leaving, right?

 

[Astute]

I am criticising that a proxy referendum has been called when we could've had a real one in less time, then moved on to the next stage of Brexit or just cancelled it.

I agree with you. But us agreeing won't change what will happen.

 

[shmmeee]

Predictable?

Well yes I suppose. I point out inaccuracies and you don't like me pointing out that you are wrong. So you try blaming me for something or changing the subject.

So why would I be jealous of Corbyn?

When I was younger only the select few went to Uni. Now you can go to Uni and waste a few years and lots of money on something that won't help much. Not jealous of that either.

I am very happy with life. Never jealous of anything. I set my goal. And unless there is a disaster I will make my goal. There will be many jealous of me. But jealousy is just stupidity.

No one said you were jealous. Please learn to read for both our sakes.

 

[Astute]

Wait. You know I vote Labour and they literally have a policy that could lead to us leaving, right?

Could yes. But McDonnell seems to call the shots. And he is remain 100%

 

[SBAndy]

No healthcare for 18 year olds?

a) you get NI cards at 16;
b) I hadn’t thought that far ahead, go away.

 

[Astute]

No one said you were jealous. Please learn to read for both our sakes.

I read you saying Corbyn didn't go to a private school. Was I also wrong there?

 

[shmmeee]

I read you saying Corbyn didn't go to a private school. Was I also wrong there?

i mean if you want to be pedantic, yes

 

[chiefdave]

Johnson cancels visit to bakery-deflects questions with another joke

Saw an ITV journalist yesterday saying they basically have to doorstep Johnson now as they can't get any time to question him on anything.

 

[shmmeee]

a) you get NI cards at 16;
b) I hadn’t thought that far ahead, go away.

I agree with the premise of contribution based benefits though. And of limiting access to the NHS to permanent residents somehow. I do think about people who can’t easily get payments like Bangladeshi women and those that can’t easily claim citizenship because they have to give up their other one for example.

Could be wrong but I don’t think health tourism costs us that much but it’s the principle. Same as housing going to citizens first. It causes resentment otherwise. And if we won’t fund it properly with the revenue immigrants bring in we should put our own first.

 

[skybluetony176]

Saw an ITV journalist yesterday saying they basically have to doorstep Johnson now as they can't get any time to question him on anything.

TBF the last person you’d want in a bakery is Johnson. Everything would come out half baked.

 

[Astute]

I agree with the premise of contribution based benefits though. And of limiting access to the NHS to permanent residents somehow. I do think about people who can’t easily get payments like Bangladeshi women and those that can’t easily claim citizenship because they have to give up their other one for example.

Could be wrong but I don’t think health tourism costs us that much but it’s the principle. Same as housing going to citizens first. It causes resentment otherwise. And if we won’t fund it properly with the revenue immigrants bring in we should put our own first.

This sounds like someone giving reasons why we shouldn't have open borders :woot:

 

[Sick Boy]

EU legal case against UK over failure to name commissioner

LOL

And you’ll be the mug paying for it out of your taxes.

 

[Sick Boy]

This sounds like someone giving reasons why we shouldn't have open borders :woot:

Ahhh yes, the gospel of ‘the truth’ pushing the notion that there are somehow open borders and it’s a free for all.

 

[shmmeee]

This sounds like someone giving reasons why we shouldn't have open borders :woot:

We shouldn’t have open borders.

You can’t offer significantly better benefits for citizenship without a sensible immigration policy.

(Am currently having IRL discussion with immigrant girlfriend. She makes some good points around why she (a low paid NHS worker) shouldn’t be kicked out/refused entry that are hard to refute without essentially resorting to “but you’re nice and integrate well”, it’s not a simple policy area at all. But the fundamental truth is you can’t literally let everyone in. And from there you’re just haggling on detail)

 

[Ian1779]

Austerity. A good one.

What would happen to millions if Brexit went as bad as one would have you believe? Yes. Austerity for millions more.

Remembering that austerity was a clear political choice.

So a group of policy makers made the ‘tough decision’ to inflict that misery on people.

Real fucking tough for them wasn’t it.

 

[Sick Boy]

We shouldn’t have open borders.

You can’t offer significantly better benefits for citizenship without a sensible immigration policy.

(Am currently having IRL discussion with immigrant girlfriend. She makes some good points around why she (a low paid NHS worker) shouldn’t be kicked out/refused entry that are hard to refute without essentially resorting to “but you’re nice and integrate well”, it’s not a simple policy area at all. But the fundamental truth is you can’t literally let everyone in. And from there you’re just haggling on detail)

If people are working and paying taxes then they should be entitled to free healthcare as everyone else.

 

[skybluetony176]

If people are working and paying taxes then they should be entitled to free healthcare as everyone else.

Except those foreigners working in our healthcare system. That’ll learned them for coming over here taking our healthcare professional jobs.

 

[Astute]

We shouldn’t have open borders.

You can’t offer significantly better benefits for citizenship without a sensible immigration policy.

(Am currently having IRL discussion with immigrant girlfriend. She makes some good points around why she (a low paid NHS worker) shouldn’t be kicked out/refused entry that are hard to refute without essentially resorting to “but you’re nice and integrate well”, it’s not a simple policy area at all. But the fundamental truth is you can’t literally let everyone in. And from there you’re just haggling on detail)

Immigration is something everyone can always disagree on. To me not a problem if you keep to the laws of where you go and can pay your own way. This can be through having enough money or working. This would mean enough money to see you through until you have a job or have a job to go to with the money to see you through until you get paid.

But housing and healthcare can be another problem.

 

[Astute]

Remembering that austerity was a clear political choice.

So a group of policy makers made the ‘tough decision’ to inflict that misery on people.

Real fucking tough for them wasn’t it.

It is always a political choice for the Tories.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No healthcare for 18 year olds?

Could link to parents NI up to 18. 21 if in HE

 

[Ian1779]

It is always a political choice for the Tories.

Sadly as it was Labour 2010-15.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not really.

Labour increase spending. Borrowing and tax goes up. Tories cut spending and cut tax. Going into an election saying that you are going to raise tax is never a good idea.

Have you not heard of Alexander's big election giveaway? Aligned with tax cuts for the biggest contributors.

Not that I expect them to keep them. It'll all suddenly be unaffordable spending one they're in. The tax cuts however will still be affordable.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Except those foreigners working in our healthcare system. That’ll learned them for coming over here taking our healthcare professional jobs.

Well it's not quite as black and white as that is it. Is the NHS staffing increasing by the same rate as our population? Is its funding? If there are better or additional ways of keeping costs and resources under control I'm all ears.

 

[shmmeee]

If people are working and paying taxes then they should be entitled to free healthcare as everyone else.

Yeah, this is the conversation I’m having. It’s the edge cases, as I say what about women who don’t work for cultural/childcare reasons? Someone who is on holiday? Anyone who buys things here pays taxes.

As I say I don’t think benefit tourism is much of a thing, and really they should just fund services appropriately cos immigrants pay in more than they take out. But I find the immigration discussion an interesting one because it’s hard to find a line that doesn’t rely on some arbitrary decision like how much (or weather) you’re earning.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

TBF the last person you’d want in a bakery is Johnson. Everything would come out half baked.

More like he'd eat all the pies

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah, this is the conversation I’m having. It’s the edge cases, as I say what about women who don’t work for cultural/childcare reasons? Someone who is on holiday? Anyone who buys things here pays taxes.

As I say I don’t think benefit tourism is much of a thing, and really they should just fund services appropriately cos immigrants pay in more than they take out. But I find the immigration discussion an interesting one because it’s hard to find a line that doesn’t rely on some arbitrary decision like how much (or weather) you’re earning.

It isn't out of some disdain for foreigners I'm suggesting this. Having loads more people in the country year on year means there will be physically more people using the service and receiving free treatment. This is well and good up to a point but it's difficult to sustain without the bill increasing too quickly. It also means more people physically need somewhere to live.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yeah, this is the conversation I’m having. It’s the edge cases, as I say what about women who don’t work for cultural/childcare reasons? Someone who is on holiday? Anyone who buys things here pays taxes.

As I say I don’t think benefit tourism is much of a thing, and really they should just fund services appropriately cos immigrants pay in more than they take out. But I find the immigration discussion an interesting one because it’s hard to find a line that doesn’t rely on some arbitrary decision like how much (or weather) you’re earning.

Talking about full-time residents and people being here on holiday are entirely different - other countries have public healthcare systems and manage as they have health cards to show someone is a full-time resident and entitled to healthcare.

 

[Monners]

He could take up UK citizenship.

Never had you down as an idiot. I am not a uk citizen and have paid
my way since I started work 35 years ago. My parents came to the uk and did the same all their lives. My mother worked for the NHS for 30 years.

I would be, at best, not be able to work (and pay taxes and NI) now due to a genetic illness if it wasn’t for “free” access to the NHS.

Pillock

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Never had you down as an idiot. I am not a uk citizen and have paid
my way since I started work 35 years ago. My parents came to the uk and did the same all their lives. My mother worked for the NHS for 30 years.

I would be, at best, not be able to work now due to a genetic I’ll illness if it wasn’t for “free” access to the NHS.

Pillock

The demands on the system now are far greater and there needs to be some way to keep a lid on the costs of a population living longer and increasing by several hundred thousand a year from immigration alone. I'm not even arguing about paying full price for procedures but just some measure of keeping the system sustainable. This is a 75 year old set-up that needs some help to go on for another 75.

 

[shmmeee]

Talking about full-time residents and people being here on holiday are entirely different - other countries have public healthcare systems and manage as they have health cards to show someone is a full-time resident and entitled to healthcare.

OK so that just shifts the question to how do we determine full time residents. There’s still some level of checks on entry even if not while here.

You’ve got to admit, at a gut level there’s a difference between a homeless person born and raised in the U.K. and someone who has just stepped off the plane at BHX on day one in terms of housing need. If nothing else, we’ve already failed our own citizens for them to get to that point under our system.

As I say Im not sure any anti-immigration policy is logically sustainable. But neither is open borders. Hence my interest. I don’t have a fixed view yet.