'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal (2 Viewers)

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Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Exactly.

Common sense needed. It is not at all a black and white situation. Would hate to see blanket legislation here.

The bakers said they would be more than happy to serve this gay man again. It was just the wording on the cake they felt was something they couldn't accommodate.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Exactly.

Common sense needed. It is not at all a black and white situation. Would hate to see blanket legislation here.

The bakers said they would be more than happy to serve this gay man again. It was just the wording on the cake they felt was something they couldn't accommodate.
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It was the other issue I didn't agree on. The courts had no question that the couple in question were rejecting them on genuine religious beliefs and the ruling was largely sympathetic to their cause. The whole action was designed to prove a point.
 
Gazolba

Gazolba

Well-Known Member
All bakers should sell a 'self-decorating kit' so everyone can decorate their cake at home however they want.
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
I tell you what is interesting. Not a religious person so just an observation. Christianity is largely mocked where as considering its 2016 the equally far fetched Islam is offered far more credence and accommodated on a far greater scale.

In terms of my earlier post my fellow posters have swayed my opinion. Unless the circumstances are extreme you probably should take the rough with the smooth in terms of your client base
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Macca said:
I tell you what is interesting. Not a religious person so just an observation. Christianity is largely mocked where as considering its 2016 the equally far fetched Islam is offered far more credence and accommodated on a far greater scale.

In terms of my earlier post my fellow posters have swayed my opinion. Unless the circumstances are extreme you probably should take the rough with the smooth in terms of your client base
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Is that a gay sex pun in there, Macca?
 
dancers lance

dancers lance

Well-Known Member
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. Steven Weinberg.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
dancers lance said:
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. Steven Weinberg.
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God is a concept by which we measure our pain. John Lennon.
 
dancers lance

dancers lance

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
God is a concept by which we measure our pain. John Lennon.
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As much as I admire John Lennon for his musical genius, he did have a tendency to let himself down when he professed knowledge regarding the supernatural.
 
R

RB1992

Guest
dancers lance said:
As much as I admire John Lennon for his musical genius, he did have a tendency to let himself down when he professed knowledge regarding the supernatural.
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And his wife was an absolutely loony. There's a great Bill Burr piece on Yoko, I'll try and find it
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Of course if same sex marriage was allowed in Northern Ireland like the rest of the U.K. then the cake would never have been ordered in the first place. Hypocrite Arlene Foster recently claimed that Northern Ireland has to be on an equal footing with the rest of the U.K. but she’s the figurehead directly stopping same sex marriage in Northern Ireland. Along with many other issues where Northern Ireland isn’t on an equal footing with the rest of the U.K..
 
tommydazzle

tommydazzle

Well-Known Member
Presumably these bakers would have endorsed 'adulterers should be put to death' on their cakes as their morality seems guided by this Bronze Age nonsense.

In this case I do actually agree with this verdict and I don't believe it reduces anyone's personal rights but probably shows the bakers to be the bigots they are.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
tommydazzle said:
Presumably these bakers would have endorsed 'adulterers should be put to death' on their cakes as their morality seems guided by this Bronze Age nonsense.

In this case I do actually agree with this verdict and I don't believe it reduces anyone's personal rights but probably shows the bakers to be the bigots they are.
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A line does have to be drawn somewhere doesn't it.

You can't just demand to have anything on a cake, otherwise you could have 'Death to the Jews' or 'I hate blacks' etc.

If you went to Starbucks should you be allowed to have 'sieg heil' written on your cup when they ask what name you want on it?

They didn't refuse to serve him, they just said they weren't prepared to put that wording on the cake.

This should never have gone to court and it had have been me I would have just gone to a different cakeshop, or got the cake there and then got the lettering after somewhere else.

It's a big waste of everyone's time and money.
 
tommydazzle

tommydazzle

Well-Known Member
These kinds of cases can throw up some interesting questions. Imagine a black person ordering a cake with 'equal rights for blacks' and the owner refusing because he didn't believe in equal rights for blacks. Obviously this shows him to be racist but I believe this isn't illegal in itself unless acted on ie in discrimination. The baker could argue that he would always serve black customers so he was anti-message not the person. Is this free speech or discrimination?
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
tommydazzle said:
These kinds of cases can throw up some interesting questions. Imagine a black person ordering a cake with 'equal rights for blacks' and the owner refusing because he didn't believe in equal rights for blacks. Obviously this shows him to be racist but I believe this isn't illegal in itself unless acted on ie in discrimination. The baker could argue that he would always serve black customers so he was anti-message not the person. Is this free speech or discrimination?
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It's a tough one isn't it. Think you can only judge each case on its own merits, but obviously you can't just have anything you want written on a cake.

Think if Harry Walker wanted a cake for Jordan Shipley, the baker wouldn't agree to putting 'f**k off you s**t c**t' on it.

You do always need to look at both sides of the story and for this Christian couple it would have been gutwrenching having to actually write such wording on a cake that was against their very being.

Think it is key that the courts focused on the political message issue here.
 
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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
In the end this self righteous twat was purely motivated by a desire to make someone with a different view be exposed. I wish he’d personally have to pay the whole of the costs. It’s a joke a quarter of a million of taxpayer money has been wasted finding a tosser whose got no actual moral point at all.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
In the end this self righteous twat was purely motivated by a desire to make someone with a different view be exposed. I wish he’d personally have to pay the whole of the costs. It’s a joke a quarter of a million of taxpayer money has been wasted finding a tosser whose got no actual moral point at all.
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Does he have to personally incur any of the costs at all?
 
Marty

Marty

Well-Known Member
What a waste of time and effort.

If someone wants a message on a cake then so be it, but also the business should have the right to refuse business if it doesn't approve or want to be associated with the message. The gay should have taken his refund and found another shop who were willing to provide what he wanted.
 
tommydazzle

tommydazzle

Well-Known Member
Not sure that if something's against your very being is an argument - after all plenty of unpleasant views are deeply held.

Agree it's not having to comply with another's point of view that the court upheld. I once refused to put up a circus poster on my events billboard because of animal welfare issues so have myself 'discriminated' in this way.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Marty said:
What a waste of time and effort.

If someone wants a message on a cake then so be it, but also the business should have the right to refuse business if it doesn't approve or want to be associated with the message. The gay should have taken his refund and found another shop who were willing to provide what he wanted.
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Nah, that's far too logical.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
tommydazzle said:
Not sure that if something's against your very being is an argument - after all plenty of unpleasant views are deeply held.

Agree it's not having to comply with another's point of view that the court upheld. I once refused to put up a circus poster on my events billboard because of animal welfare issues so have myself 'discriminated' in this way.
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No, wasn't putting it up as an argument, was just suggesting how big a thing it would have been for them to do. For them it's not just words. That was my point.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
tommydazzle said:
Not sure that if something's against your very being is an argument - after all plenty of unpleasant views are deeply held.

Agree it's not having to comply with another's point of view that the court upheld. I once refused to put up a circus poster on my events billboard because of animal welfare issues so have myself 'discriminated' in this way.
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And for that very reason I now intend to sue you.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
tommydazzle said:
These kinds of cases can throw up some interesting questions. Imagine a black person ordering a cake with 'equal rights for blacks' and the owner refusing because he didn't believe in equal rights for blacks. Obviously this shows him to be racist but I believe this isn't illegal in itself unless acted on ie in discrimination. The baker could argue that he would always serve black customers so he was anti-message not the person. Is this free speech or discrimination?
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It was insane for the lower courts to rule the Bakers couldn't object.
e.g Try ordering a cake with "Jesus Christ is our Lord and saviour" written on it from these people Celebration Cakes - Mehrab Bakery
 
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