'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by Otis, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37748681

    Not sure on this one. Maybe someone can convince me.

    Quite different I think from the B&B incident where it was just two people booking a room for the night.

    Have bakers got to put on whatever wording any client says?

    I would say 'Support gay marriage' is some kind of political statement.

    I personally do support gay marriage, but should a bakers HAVE to allow any wording?

    I'm sure a policy could well be in place for no swearing allowed or racist language at such companies, so there are restrictions I would have thought.

    Really not sure on this one at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  2. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    The bakers have said they have served the client before and would do again, but said they couldn't on this occasion because of their religious views.

    Not at all like the B&B owners who simply didn't want gay people in their B&B.
     
  3. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly, Peter Tatchell's against the ruling

     
  4. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Well said that man.

    Does seem a step too far I think.
     
  5. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Baffles me why this has ended up in court.
     
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  6. Malaka

    Malaka Well-Known Member

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    Was it a fairy cake?
     
  7. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    No, Victoria sponge I think.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    How did it even get to court? What a waste of time and false outrage.
     
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  9. Gazolba

    Gazolba Well-Known Member

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    Invite the people in to the bakery, give them a quick lesson in lettering then let them letter their own cake.
    A similar incident happened where I live. The bakery got a huge fine which they will be paying off for the rest of their lives.
    The bakery also went out of business so no-one in the town now has a bakery. The owners are collecting unemployment benefits.
     
  10. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Was that for the same incident?
     
  11. Covstu

    Covstu Well-Known Member

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    I think this is bullshit, I bet they wouldn't have objected if it was actually a cake for the marriage of two people of the same sex but this is more of a equality view. Would they be in the same position against gay marriage if they refused on that basis? So taking away statements on cakes, what about other printed media? Surely their own rights and beliefs come into play here?
     
  12. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Should never ended up in court.

    If it were me I would have just gone elsewhere. There would be a stack of people who would have done it.

    I wonder what would happen if someone went to a Muslim baker and asked them for a cake with wording which said 'Christianity, the one true religion.'

    Just a bit of common sense needed and Peter Tatchell is right. This couple weren't being horrible about the whole thing, they just apologised and said they didn't feel comfortable doing it.

    It's nothing at all like the B&B people stopping a gay couple from staying in one of their rooms.
     
  13. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you Otis. They would have been better advised to have walked away rather than appeal
     
  14. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it's madness. It seems like it wasn't violent, has reasoned basis and it's someone belief. I may not agree with it (as I support gay marriage myself) but I also believe in free speech without hate so best would of been to accept the bakers decision and move on. It's not like they wouldn't find someone.

    A fool and their money are easily parted. Lawyers win yet again.
     
  15. ajsccfc

    ajsccfc Well-Known Member

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    I'd just go to a different baker if it was me.
     
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  16. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    The B and B incident was as bad because the people almost certainly targeted it deliberately knowing they'd be refused.

    I actually think this is anti Christian.

    Both cases.
     
  17. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    That would make sense if they were also refusing people who were together but not married, which is sin too. Also I hope the B&B don't serve meat on a Friday because that's a sin.

    People can't use their religion to justify their homophobia if they are only picking and choosing what to believe in.
     
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  18. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    They're going to revisit at Christmas for some Mince(r) Pies
     
  19. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Made with poof pastry no doubt.
     
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  20. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm not sure what's gained. Surely the best result would have been to deny the bakers some cash?

    Although I suppose if *every* baker had the same view, then it becomes a little... tricky.
     
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  21. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Where do you stop though? In the US there was a case of Somali taxi drivers not taking people from the airport because they had duty free alcohol as it was against their religion to have anything to do with alcohol - it may tempt them to drink. If you allow christian bigotry you have to allow Muslim bigotry. The christians could have avoided the whole thing by not rising to the bait thus screwing the Muslim bigots. If they had won the muslims ( not many there) would have joined in.
    Just letter the cake and move on... better solution.
     
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  22. Macca

    Macca Well-Known Member

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    Freedom of speech and thought are probably at an all time low I would say, unless your thoughts and words tow the line.

    Personally I support the B & B owners and the taxi drivers too. It's their right to have who they want using their business. Up to them if they want to risk losing customers.

    Personally I have no issue with gay marriage at all but at least I am honest to admit I find the idea of 2 blokes getting it on stomach churning. I probably need to go on a course :-)
     
  23. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    You see, I had a big problem with the B&B owners.

    When you book a room you don't say you are married or unmarried, gay or straight, you just book the room.

    The big difference for me here is that with the B&B they refused to allow gay people into their place. The cake people had no problem with the guy being gay, but just felt they couldn't bring themselves to put certain wording on a cake.

    If you allow people to deny homosexuals a place in their B&B or hotel that opens up a whole can of unsavoury worms.

    Think that would be extreme discrimination.
     
  24. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    It is not their right to discriminate. If you offer a service it should be to everyone. If they are not prepared to deal with, e.g. non-believers, gays, Catholics, Protestants, blacks, whites, unmarried mothers- or whoever doesn't meet their own views/ prejudices - religious or otherwise- then they shouldn't be allowed to trade.

    Anyone who believes that a being created trillions of stars and even more planets and, that this being actually gives a fuck about them writing something on a cake, needs their head looking at.
     
  25. SIR ERNIE

    SIR ERNIE Well-Known Member

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    They felt that decorating a cake with the message 'Support Gay Marriage' would mean they endorsed the message.
    So as devout Christians they politely declined the order.
    I get that. No offence chaps, move on.

    As ajsccfc says above; the two gays could just as easily gone elsewhere but in these days of feigned offence and outrage, there's always someone eager to be offended and get you labelled as a 'phobe' of some sort.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  26. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Christian message was different. As devout Christians they should have followed the doctrine of Christ and written it. I thought Christ's doctrine was supposed to be about peace and love, not censoring cakes. Apparently I'm wrong.
     
  27. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    So you believe religious views should not be deemed as relevant in society at all?
     
  28. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Not at all.

    Usually Grndel spin I see.

    I am with Peter Tachell on this. Common sense needed.

    This couple were not refusing to serve gays. Completely and totally different from the B&B, where they clearly didn't want gay people in their establishment.

    Would you say it was okay for someone to go to a Muslim baker and order them to write 'Mohammed loves gays' on a cake?

    Should they be forced to do that? Or a Jewish baker asked to do a cake with a Swastika on it?
     
  29. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    I also love the fact that another poster states they are on the side of the B&B people and yet you choose to respond to mine. Your reply would be much better suited to Macca's post.

    That wouldn't be Grendel though would it.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  30. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    It's a thread started by you.

    I really can't be bothered to trawl through the B and B case but wasn't there a suggestion that the clients targeted it deliberately knowing their views?

    That aside there is then the issue of religion and the freedom to express religious beliefs - should someone be prosecuted for having devout religious views?
     
  31. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Do you think a Jewish baker should be forced to decorate a cake with a Swastika?
     
  32. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Should a Jewish B and B owner allow a nazi in his B and B?
     
  33. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    No.


    Now you answer mine.
     
  34. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Why do you on so many occasions, when people ask you a direct question, not answer and come back with your own question?

    You have done it so many times on here with different posters I have lost count.

    Very poor show.
     
  35. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I have answered it - no in both cases obviously.
     

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