'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal (1 Viewer)

Otis · Oct 24, 2016

'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37748681

Not sure on this one. Maybe someone can convince me.

Quite different I think from the B&B incident where it was just two people booking a room for the night.

Have bakers got to put on whatever wording any client says?

I would say 'Support gay marriage' is some kind of political statement.

I personally do support gay marriage, but should a bakers HAVE to allow any wording?

I'm sure a policy could well be in place for no swearing allowed or racist language at such companies, so there are restrictions I would have thought.

Really not sure on this one at all.

Otis · Oct 24, 2016

The bakers have said they have served the client before and would do again, but said they couldn't on this occasion because of their religious views.

Not at all like the B&B owners who simply didn't want gay people in their B&B.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 24, 2016

Interestingly, Peter Tatchell's against the ruling

Mr Tatchell said: ‘Much as I wish to defend the gay community, I also want to defend freedom of conscience, expression and religion.’

As a result of the court ruling against the bakery, far right agitators could force Muslim printers to publish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, or Jewish printers to reproduce Holocaust denial material, he added.

‘Will gay bakers have to accept orders for cakes with homophobic slurs?’ Mr Tatchell asked.

Otis · Oct 24, 2016

Well said that man.

Does seem a step too far I think.

Otis · Oct 24, 2016

Baffles me why this has ended up in court.

Malaka · Oct 24, 2016

Was it a fairy cake?

Otis · Oct 24, 2016

No, Victoria sponge I think.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Nick · Oct 24, 2016

How did it even get to court? What a waste of time and false outrage.

Gazolba · Oct 24, 2016

Invite the people in to the bakery, give them a quick lesson in lettering then let them letter their own cake.
A similar incident happened where I live. The bakery got a huge fine which they will be paying off for the rest of their lives.
The bakery also went out of business so no-one in the town now has a bakery. The owners are collecting unemployment benefits.

Nick · Oct 24, 2016

Gazolba said:
Invite the people in to the bakery, give them a quick lesson in lettering then let them letter their own cake.
A similar incident happened where I live. The bakery got a huge fine which they will be paying off for the rest of their lives.
The bakery also went out of business so no-one in the town now has a bakery. The owners are collecting unemployment benefits.

Was that for the same incident?

Covstu · Oct 25, 2016

I think this is bullshit, I bet they wouldn't have objected if it was actually a cake for the marriage of two people of the same sex but this is more of a equality view. Would they be in the same position against gay marriage if they refused on that basis? So taking away statements on cakes, what about other printed media? Surely their own rights and beliefs come into play here?

Otis · Oct 25, 2016

Should never ended up in court.

If it were me I would have just gone elsewhere. There would be a stack of people who would have done it.

I wonder what would happen if someone went to a Muslim baker and asked them for a cake with wording which said 'Christianity, the one true religion.'

Just a bit of common sense needed and Peter Tatchell is right. This couple weren't being horrible about the whole thing, they just apologised and said they didn't feel comfortable doing it.

It's nothing at all like the B&B people stopping a gay couple from staying in one of their rooms.

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 25, 2016

I'm with you Otis. They would have been better advised to have walked away rather than appeal

Kingokings204 · Oct 25, 2016

Yes it's madness. It seems like it wasn't violent, has reasoned basis and it's someone belief. I may not agree with it (as I support gay marriage myself) but I also believe in free speech without hate so best would of been to accept the bakers decision and move on. It's not like they wouldn't find someone.

A fool and their money are easily parted. Lawyers win yet again.

ajsccfc · Oct 25, 2016

I'd just go to a different baker if it was me.

Grendel · Oct 25, 2016

Otis said:
'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37748681

Not sure on this one. Maybe someone can convince me.

Quite different I think from the B&B incident where it was just two people booking a room for the night.

Have bakers got to put on whatever wording any client says?

I would say 'Support gay marriage' is some kind of political statement.

I personally do support gay marriage, but should a bakers HAVE to allow any wording?

I'm sure a policy could well be in place for no swearing allowed or racist language at such companies, so there are restrictions I would have thought.

Really not sure on this one at all.

The B and B incident was as bad because the people almost certainly targeted it deliberately knowing they'd be refused.

I actually think this is anti Christian.

Both cases.

Liquid Gold · Oct 25, 2016

Grendel said:
The B and B incident was as bad because the people almost certainly targeted it deliberately knowing they'd be refused.

I actually think this is anti Christian.

Both cases.

That would make sense if they were also refusing people who were together but not married, which is sin too. Also I hope the B&B don't serve meat on a Friday because that's a sin.

People can't use their religion to justify their homophobia if they are only picking and choosing what to believe in.

fernandopartridge · Oct 25, 2016

ajsccfc said:
I'd just go to a different baker if it was me.

They're going to revisit at Christmas for some Mince(r) Pies

Otis · Oct 25, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
They're going to revisit at Christmas for some Mince(r) Pies

Made with poof pastry no doubt.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 25, 2016

ajsccfc said:
I'd just go to a different baker if it was me.

Yeah I'm not sure what's gained. Surely the best result would have been to deny the bakers some cash?

Although I suppose if *every* baker had the same view, then it becomes a little... tricky.

martcov · Oct 25, 2016

Grendel said:
The B and B incident was as bad because the people almost certainly targeted it deliberately knowing they'd be refused.

I actually think this is anti Christian.

Both cases.

Where do you stop though? In the US there was a case of Somali taxi drivers not taking people from the airport because they had duty free alcohol as it was against their religion to have anything to do with alcohol - it may tempt them to drink. If you allow christian bigotry you have to allow Muslim bigotry. The christians could have avoided the whole thing by not rising to the bait thus screwing the Muslim bigots. If they had won the muslims ( not many there) would have joined in.
Just letter the cake and move on... better solution.

Macca · Oct 26, 2016

Freedom of speech and thought are probably at an all time low I would say, unless your thoughts and words tow the line.

Personally I support the B & B owners and the taxi drivers too. It's their right to have who they want using their business. Up to them if they want to risk losing customers.

Personally I have no issue with gay marriage at all but at least I am honest to admit I find the idea of 2 blokes getting it on stomach churning. I probably need to go on a course

Otis · Oct 26, 2016

You see, I had a big problem with the B&B owners.

When you book a room you don't say you are married or unmarried, gay or straight, you just book the room.

The big difference for me here is that with the B&B they refused to allow gay people into their place. The cake people had no problem with the guy being gay, but just felt they couldn't bring themselves to put certain wording on a cake.

If you allow people to deny homosexuals a place in their B&B or hotel that opens up a whole can of unsavoury worms.

Think that would be extreme discrimination.

martcov · Oct 26, 2016

Macca said:
Freedom of speech and thought are probably at an all time low I would say, unless your thoughts and words tow the line.

Personally I support the B & B owners and the taxi drivers too. It's their right to have who they want using their business. Up to them if they want to risk losing customers.

Personally I have no issue with gay marriage at all but at least I am honest to admit I find the idea of 2 blokes getting it on stomach churning. I probably need to go on a course

It is not their right to discriminate. If you offer a service it should be to everyone. If they are not prepared to deal with, e.g. non-believers, gays, Catholics, Protestants, blacks, whites, unmarried mothers- or whoever doesn't meet their own views/ prejudices - religious or otherwise- then they shouldn't be allowed to trade.

Anyone who believes that a being created trillions of stars and even more planets and, that this being actually gives a fuck about them writing something on a cake, needs their head looking at.

SIR ERNIE · Oct 26, 2016

They felt that decorating a cake with the message 'Support Gay Marriage' would mean they endorsed the message.
So as devout Christians they politely declined the order.
I get that. No offence chaps, move on.

As ajsccfc says above; the two gays could just as easily gone elsewhere but in these days of feigned offence and outrage, there's always someone eager to be offended and get you labelled as a 'phobe' of some sort.

martcov · Oct 26, 2016

SIR ERNIE said:
They felt that decorating a cake with the message 'Support Gay Marriage' would mean they endorsed the message.
So as devout Christians they politely declined the order.
I get that. No offence chaps, move on.

As ajsccfc says above; the two gays could just as easily gone elsewhere but in these days of feigned offence and outrage, there's always someone eager to be offended and get you labelled as a 'phobe' of some sort.

I thought the Christian message was different. As devout Christians they should have followed the doctrine of Christ and written it. I thought Christ's doctrine was supposed to be about peace and love, not censoring cakes. Apparently I'm wrong.

Grendel · Oct 26, 2016

Otis said:
You see, I had a big problem with the B&B owners.

When you book a room you don't say you are married or unmarried, gay or straight, you just book the room.

The big difference for me here is that with the B&B they refused to allow gay people into their place. The cake people had no problem with the guy being gay, but just felt they couldn't bring themselves to put certain wording on a cake.

If you allow people to deny homosexuals a place in their B&B or hotel that opens up a whole can of unsavoury worms.

Think that would be extreme discrimination.

So you believe religious views should not be deemed as relevant in society at all?

Otis · Oct 26, 2016

Grendel said:
So you believe religious views should not be deemed as relevant in society at all?

Not at all.

Usually Grndel spin I see.

I am with Peter Tachell on this. Common sense needed.

This couple were not refusing to serve gays. Completely and totally different from the B&B, where they clearly didn't want gay people in their establishment.

Would you say it was okay for someone to go to a Muslim baker and order them to write 'Mohammed loves gays' on a cake?

Should they be forced to do that? Or a Jewish baker asked to do a cake with a Swastika on it?

Otis · Oct 26, 2016

I also love the fact that another poster states they are on the side of the B&B people and yet you choose to respond to mine. Your reply would be much better suited to Macca's post.

That wouldn't be Grendel though would it.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Grendel · Oct 26, 2016

Otis said:
I also love the fact that another poster states they are on the side of the B&B people and yet you choose to respond to mine. Your reply would be much better suited to Macca's post.

That wouldn't be Grendel though would it.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

It's a thread started by you.

I really can't be bothered to trawl through the B and B case but wasn't there a suggestion that the clients targeted it deliberately knowing their views?

That aside there is then the issue of religion and the freedom to express religious beliefs - should someone be prosecuted for having devout religious views?

Otis · Oct 26, 2016

Grendel said:
It's a thread started by you.

I really can't be bothered to trawl through the B and B case but wasn't there a suggestion that the clients targeted it deliberately knowing their views?

That aside there is then the issue of religion and the freedom to express religious beliefs - should someone be prosecuted for having devout religious views?

Do you think a Jewish baker should be forced to decorate a cake with a Swastika?

Grendel · Oct 26, 2016

Otis said:
Do you think a Jewish baker should be forced to decorate a cake with a Swastika?

Should a Jewish B and B owner allow a nazi in his B and B?

Otis · Oct 26, 2016

Grendel said:
Should a Jewish B and B owner allow a nazi in his B and B?

No.

Now you answer mine.

Otis · Oct 26, 2016

Why do you on so many occasions, when people ask you a direct question, not answer and come back with your own question?

You have done it so many times on here with different posters I have lost count.

Very poor show.

Grendel · Oct 26, 2016

Otis said:
Why do you on so many occasions, when people ask you a direct question, not answer and come back with your own question?

You have done it so many times on here with different posters I have lost count.

Very poor show.

I have answered it - no in both cases obviously.

'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency