Fans back in stadia by Xmas? (1 Viewer)

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee · Nov 18, 2020

Grendel said:
He has quoted the wrong stat. The average death age is 82 which is higher than the average age of death through other conditions

Seen this sent to me from a few mates who are of the 'We need to stop pussying around' rhetoric. Does anyone have a reliable source where that has come from? Intrigued to learn more about it, not just a WhatsApp screenshot. I hadn't doubted it all that much but then have been on that BBC page that has dedications to victims quite a bit and the majority appear to be in their 60s or younger. I am aware that older people are less likely to have relatives who will stick a photo and memorial on the BBC website, but it struck me just how many of them weren't what I would consider 'old'.

KenilworthSkyBlue · Nov 18, 2020

I feel the timing of this is article slightly coincidental given that this has come relatively soon after the DCMS grilling of Masters, Parry and Clarke. The DCMS highlighted once again the dire financial situation of the EFL, and further suggested that Christmas would be the point of no return for some clubs as many are already running off fumes. It's incredible the majority of clubs have lasted this long really.

And the latest news regarding a 'bailout' certainly adds fuel to the fire with regards to getting fans back into stadiums. The EFL bailout (which excludes the Championship) that has reportedly been agreed is £200m short of what was originally outlined by Parry, and as a result probably won't scratch the surface of what's required to bridge the gap. To put it into perspective, the National League received £10m - a figure that has even been deemed as not enough - and clubs are already calling for the NL Chairman's head due to distribution irregularities. I suspect a repeat for the EFL - as Parry is clearly out of ideas.

So, taking all of this into consideration I feel it's more of a PR pressure tactic rather than it having any weight to it. I'm sure discussions are being held on a regular basis but realistically they can't let fans in when numbers remain consistently high.

chiefdave · Nov 18, 2020

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
Seen this sent to me from a few mates who are of the 'We need to stop pussying around' rhetoric. Does anyone have a reliable source where that has come from? Intrigued to learn more about it, not just a WhatsApp screenshot. I hadn't doubted it all that much but then have been on that BBC page that has dedications to victims quite a bit and the majority appear to be in their 60s or younger. I am aware that older people are less likely to have relatives who will stick a photo and memorial on the BBC website, but it struck me just how many of them weren't what I would consider 'old'.

Here, but it literally just gives you the figures not the data.

Average age of death (median and mean) of persons whose death was due to COVID-19 or involved COVID-19, by sex, deaths registered up to week ending 2 October 2020, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

www.ons.gov.uk

More data here

Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Office for National Statistics

Latest data and analysis on coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK and its effect on the economy and society.

www.ons.gov.uk

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 18, 2020

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
Seen this sent to me from a few mates who are of the 'We need to stop pussying around' rhetoric. Does anyone have a reliable source where that has come from? Intrigued to learn more about it, not just a WhatsApp screenshot. I hadn't doubted it all that much but then have been on that BBC page that has dedications to victims quite a bit and the majority appear to be in their 60s or younger. I am aware that older people are less likely to have relatives who will stick a photo and memorial on the BBC website, but it struck me just how many of them weren't what I would consider 'old'.

Here you go, for Scotland at least. You need to read it in context with the average age at death for people as a whole, however.

Covid death figures: 10 things we've learned

The average age of those who died with Covid-19 in Scotland and other details from a new official report.

www.bbc.co.uk

As for infection rates, here's a little bit to read on: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30461-6/fulltext

Grendel · Nov 18, 2020

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
Seen this sent to me from a few mates who are of the 'We need to stop pussying around' rhetoric. Does anyone have a reliable source where that has come from? Intrigued to learn more about it, not just a WhatsApp screenshot. I hadn't doubted it all that much but then have been on that BBC page that has dedications to victims quite a bit and the majority appear to be in their 60s or younger. I am aware that older people are less likely to have relatives who will stick a photo and memorial on the BBC website, but it struck me just how many of them weren't what I would consider 'old'.

It’s ONS data

Average age of coronavirus fatalities is 82

The average age of those who have died from coronavirus in England and Wales since the start of the pandemic is 82.4 years old. Using data from the Office for N

www.thetimes.co.uk

jimmyhillsfanclub · Nov 18, 2020

Who the fuck wants to go a match where you cant enjoy the pub before hand, have to stand or sit alone, no sing song, no pie & pint, surrounded by people in face masks.......a completely detached soulless empty experience.....

....so until we can all bounce around together under a concourse, hug a stranger when we score & dodge the obligatory twist & shout lager shower......I'm out.

Skybluefaz · Nov 18, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Who the fuck wants to go a match where you cant enjoy the pub before hand, have to stand or sit alone, no sing song, no pie & pint, surrounded by people in face masks.......a completely detached soulless empty experience.....

....so until we can all bounce around together under a concourse, hug a stranger when we score & dodge the obligatory twist & shout lager shower......I'm out.

I can see that many people would like to go back and watch the game in a socially distanced way. I might even give it a go. You get a like though for just evoking the memory of football match attendance. In many ways, that will signal the end of this shit show for me. All those brilliant things you mentioned. Can't wait for that day.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 18, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Who the fuck wants to go a match where you cant enjoy the pub before hand, have to stand or sit alone, no sing song, no pie & pint, surrounded by people in face masks.......a completely detached soulless empty experience.....

....so until we can all bounce around together under a concourse, hug a stranger when we score & dodge the obligatory twist & shout lager shower......I'm out.

That's kind of where I sit / stand (as it were). A lot of things don't seem... fun atm, so I won't bother making the effort to do them until they are. Am finding things are either not fun, or I don't feel comfortable. Appreciate other people have different levels of tolerance.

fernandopartridge · Nov 18, 2020

Paxman II said:
A vaccine that you have no idea of it's lasting duration? Will you need it again in 3 months, 6 months a year? What are it's long term effects on you? A virus that has more than a 99% recovery rate?
The average age of people infected is 82 years old, and people with pre conditions.
Cases are going up as we test more people...that's not hard to understand.
You can go shopping in a supermarket but can't sit in a vast stadium with acres of space between you and someone else?
I'm so done with this shit, and the sheeple who can't figure stuff out for themselves.

The average age of somebody infected is not 82 at all you berk

Magwitch · Nov 18, 2020

To be honest I think fans returning soon is wishful thinking, the Government have extended the furlough scheme until the end of March, why do you think they have done that ? I suggest because as we are now seeing this spike is more than a spike 600 deaths yesterday, I just can’t see fans being allowed back in numbers this side of a vaccination program so talking Spring. I very much doubt fans in decent quantity will be back this season at all, hope I’m wrong though.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 18, 2020

ccfcway said:
extend Dec lockdown, allow a household to meet up with one more household on xmas day, back to lockdowns after that until end of March when Furlough ends. then review

I agree with this whole heartedly, although it would need to be done in conjunction with restrictions on Ant to really prove effective.

Sick Boy · Nov 18, 2020

IMO fans will not be back in stadiums properly until 2022, unfortunately.

Nick · Nov 18, 2020

Tommo1993 said:
Why do people make out that’s a good thing? Thick. It’s still going up.

I have a cure.

Stop testing completely and nobody will have it!

baldy · Nov 18, 2020

I really can't see why a number of fans can't go back to football grounds - there's enough space to socially distance (but it's ok for people to be crammed in an indoor venue to see Arsene Wenger blabber on recently in London)
Pathetic

Warwickhunt · Nov 18, 2020

ccfcway said:
We don't have to think it, we experienced it

probably give us an advantage anyway cos we only get about 6k in ground for 28k anyway

bawtryneal · Nov 18, 2020

Nick said:
I have a cure.

Stop testing completely and nobody will have it!

Or even better just keep testing but keep the results private like they do in China, Russia and North Korea

bawtryneal · Nov 18, 2020

How many posters on here who are flippant about Covid and opening up football stadia and think the whole thing is a conspiracy have spent any time in an NHS hospital in the last 6 months.
I personally have not but my brother is a doctor and my next door neighbour is a consultant at DRI in Doncaster. Talk to them for 5 minutes and you will change your view.
As of yesterday in DRI ( Doncaster Royal Infirmary) there were 65 people on life support or in a very serious way. They range from 25 to 85, all shapes and sizes, all religious and cultural backgrounds. A significant number did not have previous health issues.
Also the other major issue is long Covid. I have two guys who work for me ( one a semi professional footballer) who are both in a bad way and have been off work for three months. Neither are skivers but hard working responsible guys who want to be at work.
To associate this issue with an average of 82 year olds is complete bollox.

Otis · Nov 18, 2020

Well said.

steve cooper · Nov 18, 2020

baldy said:
I really can't see why a number of fans can't go back to football grounds - there's enough space to socially distance (but it's ok for people to be crammed in an indoor venue to see Arsene Wenger blabber on recently in London)
Pathetic

For the reason quoted below, plus the impossibility of social distancing outside the ground, and through the entrances.
And how can rival fans possibly have a socially distanced punch-up?

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
....so until we can all bounce around together under a concourse, hug a stranger when we score & dodge the obligatory twist & shout lager shower......I'm out.

baldy · Nov 18, 2020

bawtryneal said:
How many posters on here who are flippant about Covid and opening up football stadia and think the whole thing is a conspiracy have spent any time in an NHS hospital in the last 6 months.
I personally have not but my brother is a doctor and my next door neighbour is a consultant at DRI in Doncaster. Talk to them for 5 minutes and you will change your view.
As of yesterday in DRI ( Doncaster Royal Infirmary) there were 65 people on life support or in a very serious way. They range from 25 to 85, all shapes and sizes, all religious and cultural backgrounds. A significant number did not have previous health issues.
Also the other major issue is long Covid. I have two guys who work for me ( one a semi professional footballer) who are both in a bad way and have been off work for three months. Neither are skivers but hard working responsible guys who want to be at work.
To associate this issue with an average of 82 year olds is complete bollox.

I personally have spent time in a hospital because I too work in one & the hospital's nowhere near full & deathly quiet
Some hospitals only have a small number of beds anyway & are thus always full at this time of year - I believe corona exists definitely but nowhere near as bad as news outlets tell us...it is an official fact that covid is something like the 20th deadliest disease in the country this year behind other things like flu,heart disease & cancer etc (flu kills a million people a year but we don't seem to lose our shit over that & lock the nation down)
I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all but I believe the facts as they're presented and just think we need to get back to something resembling 'normal' soon because lockdowns aren't the way forward at all

hill83 · Nov 18, 2020

Paxman II said:
sheeple

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2020

Paxman II said:
A vaccine that you have no idea of it's lasting duration? Will you need it again in 3 months, 6 months a year? What are it's long term effects on you? A virus that has more than a 99% recovery rate?
The average age of people infected is 82 years old, and people with pre conditions.
Cases are going up as we test more people...that's not hard to understand.
You can go shopping in a supermarket but can't sit in a vast stadium with acres of space between you and someone else?
I'm so done with this shit, and the sheeple who can't figure stuff out for themselves.

“sheeple” says the guy spouting crap he got off WhatsApp.

chiefdave · Nov 18, 2020

Think we've got an answer why fans back in stadiums is suddenly on the agenda for the government. No money for football or cricket but hundreds of millions in handouts for rugby union, rugby league, horse racing, netball etc

Skyblueweeman · Nov 18, 2020

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
I feel the timing of this is article slightly coincidental given that this has come relatively soon after the DCMS grilling of Masters, Parry and Clarke. The DCMS highlighted once again the dire financial situation of the EFL, and further suggested that Christmas would be the point of no return for some clubs as many are already running off fumes. It's incredible the majority of clubs have lasted this long really.

And the latest news regarding a 'bailout' certainly adds fuel to the fire with regards to getting fans back into stadiums. The EFL bailout (which excludes the Championship) that has reportedly been agreed is £200m short of what was originally outlined by Parry, and as a result probably won't scratch the surface of what's required to bridge the gap. To put it into perspective, the National League received £10m - a figure that has even been deemed as not enough - and clubs are already calling for the NL Chairman's head due to distribution irregularities. I suspect a repeat for the EFL - as Parry is clearly out of ideas.

So, taking all of this into consideration I feel it's more of a PR pressure tactic rather than it having any weight to it. I'm sure discussions are being held on a regular basis but realistically they can't let fans in when numbers remain consistently high.

The DCMS have caused utter confusion for elite sports teams this week with their handling of team usage of hotels before games.

'Guidance' stated that teams couldn't eat together in their bubbles, in hotel meeting rooms as private dining. Hotels could host the teams but the players would have to have room service despite the clubs providing menus for their meals. However, the clubs could still eat in their groups at their training grounds. Madness.

The clubs across the leagues pushed back and they've allowed them to do so but the DCMS has caused me a lot of headaches in the last 24hrs.

Paxman II · Nov 18, 2020

baldy said:
I personally have spent time in a hospital because I too work in one & the hospital's nowhere near full & deathly quiet
Some hospitals only have a small number of beds anyway & are thus always full at this time of year - I believe corona exists definitely but nowhere near as bad as news outlets tell us...it is an official fact that covid is something like the 20th deadliest disease in the country this year behind other things like flu,heart disease & cancer etc (flu kills a million people a year but we don't seem to lose our shit over that & lock the nation down)
I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all but I believe the facts as they're presented and just think we need to get back to something resembling 'normal' soon because lockdowns aren't the way forward at all

well said.

ccfctommy · Nov 18, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Who the fuck wants to go a match where you cant enjoy the pub before hand, have to stand or sit alone, no sing song, no pie & pint, surrounded by people in face masks.......a completely detached soulless empty experience.....

....so until we can all bounce around together under a concourse, hug a stranger when we score & dodge the obligatory twist & shout lager shower......I'm out.

It beats watching it on a laptop.

fernandopartridge · Nov 19, 2020

bawtryneal said:
How many posters on here who are flippant about Covid and opening up football stadia and think the whole thing is a conspiracy have spent any time in an NHS hospital in the last 6 months.
I personally have not but my brother is a doctor and my next door neighbour is a consultant at DRI in Doncaster. Talk to them for 5 minutes and you will change your view.
As of yesterday in DRI ( Doncaster Royal Infirmary) there were 65 people on life support or in a very serious way. They range from 25 to 85, all shapes and sizes, all religious and cultural backgrounds. A significant number did not have previous health issues.
Also the other major issue is long Covid. I have two guys who work for me ( one a semi professional footballer) who are both in a bad way and have been off work for three months. Neither are skivers but hard working responsible guys who want to be at work.
To associate this issue with an average of 82 year olds is complete bollox.

A girl I work with aged 34 has been off since the beginning of September with it.

fernandopartridge · Nov 19, 2020

baldy said:
I personally have spent time in a hospital because I too work in one & the hospital's nowhere near full & deathly quiet
Some hospitals only have a small number of beds anyway & are thus always full at this time of year - I believe corona exists definitely but nowhere near as bad as news outlets tell us...it is an official fact that covid is something like the 20th deadliest disease in the country this year behind other things like flu,heart disease & cancer etc (flu kills a million people a year but we don't seem to lose our shit over that & lock the nation down)
I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all but I believe the facts as they're presented and just think we need to get back to something resembling 'normal' soon because lockdowns aren't the way forward at all

It isn't behind flu at all. This data is easy to find

fernandopartridge · Nov 19, 2020

baldy said:
I personally have spent time in a hospital because I too work in one & the hospital's nowhere near full & deathly quiet
Some hospitals only have a small number of beds anyway & are thus always full at this time of year - I believe corona exists definitely but nowhere near as bad as news outlets tell us...it is an official fact that covid is something like the 20th deadliest disease in the country this year behind other things like flu,heart disease & cancer etc (flu kills a million people a year but we don't seem to lose our shit over that & lock the nation down)
I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all but I believe the facts as they're presented and just think we need to get back to something resembling 'normal' soon because lockdowns aren't the way forward at all

Flu kills 1m people a year. 1 in 66 people in the UK Fuck off. What role do you do in the hospital? Not a neurosurgeon I take it?

skybluesam66 · Nov 19, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
Flu kills 1m people a year. 1 in 66 people in the UK Fuck off. What role do you do in the hospital? Not a neurosurgeon I take it?

I think he was talking worldwide - per WHO it is between 250k and 500k

As regards the original topic, Segregated fans in stadiums with limited capacity is a lot safer than
people in pubs/restaurants/tesco/schools/ xmas day with people you cant stand etc

Hopefully with the vaccine, the argument goes, but even without it
Xmas day with the relatives or boxing day at the match . I would choose the safer option, sod the relatives

Tommo1993 · Nov 19, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
Flu kills 1m people a year. 1 in 66 people in the UK Fuck off. What role do you do in the hospital? Not a neurosurgeon I take it?

With that username, my guess was dermatology...administrator.

Otis · Nov 19, 2020

Tommo1993 said:
With that username, my guess was dermatology...administrator.

Or a dyslexic, brave explorer.

RegTheDonk · Nov 19, 2020

baldy said:
I personally have spent time in a hospital because I too work in one & the hospital's nowhere near full & deathly quiet
Some hospitals only have a small number of beds anyway & are thus always full at this time of year - I believe corona exists definitely but nowhere near as bad as news outlets tell us...it is an official fact that covid is something like the 20th deadliest disease in the country this year behind other things like flu,heart disease & cancer etc (flu kills a million people a year but we don't seem to lose our shit over that & lock the nation down)
I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all but I believe the facts as they're presented and just think we need to get back to something resembling 'normal' soon because lockdowns aren't the way forward at all

I think they initially looked at worse case scenarios and went with total lockdowns and building Nightingale Hospitals. However, if it's being overblown why spunk more money on furlough's through to spring and bail outs to non essential sports.

On topic, I can't see how they can do the above and with the death rate still high and rising, allow fans back by Xmas. Once the vaccine becomes (hopefully) more available and the most vulnerable are protected, then perhaps we can get back to screaming "forward" and the players can hear us. Can't see it myself until next spring, but thats just MHO.

oscillatewildly · Nov 19, 2020

ccfcway said:
cant see anything happening this side of march next year at least. Maybe a couple of hundred or so, but nothing of any note

*Xmas 2021 more likely.

oscillatewildly · Nov 19, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Football will continue to be shite until we've all been vaccinated.

Very 'Wolstenholme-esque'. I love it.

Fans back in stadia by Xmas? (1 Viewer)

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