Even I must admit.... (1 Viewer)

RoboCCFC90 · Apr 12, 2013

dongonzalos said:
My point is mate
When we were relegated we were like Blackburn tipped to come back up.

If was never considered by the neutral that we would go down to league one until that infamous summer.

Prior to that summer the way we finished the season people were saying keep Westwood Marlon Gunnar add a couple if others and mount a promotion campaign.

The direction the owners went from that point which they themselves have admitted was a mistake.

It was only then that people thought it is inevitable we will go down.

For me personally it was only when we sold juke.

I disagree Dong, the writing was on the wall for us to go down when we allowed the core of our squad to leave and didn't replace them. Westwood, King, Turner & Gunnarson and the only replacement we made to that squad was Murphy! (We can't even class Cody as a replacement), yes Jukie leaving was big as well and that pretty much confirmed what most had known for a long time, that we weren't surviving this time..

It's easy to say now what if, but the problem is nowadays (Unless your rich or financially stable which most clubs aren't) you need to maintain a good core of players to make a push on any league if we had kept Leon Best (Was out of a contract end of that season admittably), Scott Dann (at the time signed a 3 & 1/2 year deal) and Danny Fox (I think another 3 & 1/2 year deal) add to that players we signed within those times, King, Juke, Keogh, Cranie and keeping them onboard we could have had a mean team to challenge with.. Obviously selling players off or releasing them is how it all unfolded, but how much do they say promotion to the PL is worth.. 60 Mil?? That's more than we had in return for those players.. SISU never looked at the long term gain or had aspirations, they moment they were offered a bone they took it...

I suppose we dream..

RichieGunns · Apr 12, 2013

stupot07 said:
You could argue that Jack Walker buying the title was the very start of the boom or bust ethos to football ownership.

Yes that's a very good point Stupot and not without merit!

But Blackburn had good players (bought with his money) who won the Premiership title and won it well.

You can't take that away from them. So it sad to see them in this way now.

Mucca Mad Boys · Apr 12, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
I'd say 2 of those count as "involved in relegation". Your "stats" really don't back up your argument that "relegation was inevitable without SISU". It would have been in the season they bought us due to adminstration, but that was the only time. Maybe you should have a look at the number of seasons where we ended dreadfully as we had nothing to play for?

I'd say 3 season were definitely close shaves, there're others when we feared relegation, but needed up surviving easily still count, just to a lesser degree, they would seem to show a path that leads to relegation. 60% of out finishes in D1 were bottom 6, 20% were top half, and 10% were in midtable mediocracy. That shows chronic decline that has swallowed up bigger clubs than ourselves, S'hampton. Leeds, Norwich, Shefffields (both), Forest and Leicester. Nothing is inevitable, but it looked very, very likely that we would've got relegated with or without SISU in my view.

SkyBlueCharlie · Apr 12, 2013

I struggle with this somewhat as relegation should never have been inevitable because even with the losses of King and Westwood et al the squad that was left should have been good enough to have kept us in the Championship and at one stage seemed to being doing just that. To me it became 'inevitable once Thorn was appointed as full time manager. I don't blame him for taking the job, (how many of us think that we could better than some of the incumbents over the recent years?) but at the end of the day he was a Scout, had no practical or technical qualifications to be a Coach and the up-down results during the later part of the 2009-10 season gave me little or no confidence for the future. It particularly showed for the last few games when just as it appeared we were putting a survival run together we nosed dived and possibly a more experienced manager would have been able to keep that run going. The other issue I have with Thorn's tenure that his lack of experience should have been recognised and dealt with, as it was he appeared to be a one man band with no support in crucial areas (lack of a fitness coach springs to mind). As I've said I don't blame him for jumping at the opportunity and he certainly gave it his best shot, it's just that, to me, the decision to appoint him was misguided at best and at that point relegation became inevitable.

stupot07 · Apr 12, 2013

SkyBlueCharlie said:
I struggle with this somewhat as relegation should never have been inevitable because even with the losses of King and Westwood et al the squad that was left should have been good enough to have kept us in the Championship and at one stage seemed to being doing just that. To me it became 'inevitable once Thorn was appointed as full time manager. I don't blame him for taking the job, (how many of us think that we could better than some of the incumbents over the recent years?) but at the end of the day he was a Scout, had no practical or technical qualifications to be a Coach and the up-down results during the later part of the 2009-10 season gave me little or no confidence for the future. It particularly showed for the last few games when just as it appeared we were putting a survival run together we nosed dived and possibly a more experienced manager would have been able to keep that run going. The other issue I have with Thorn's tenure that his lack of experience should have been recognised and dealt with, as it was he appeared to be a one man band with no support in crucial areas (lack of a fitness coach springs to mind). As I've said I don't blame him for jumping at the opportunity and he certainly gave it his best shot, it's just that, to me, the decision to appoint him was misguided at best and at that point relegation became inevitable.

I'm sorry Charlie, but that squad was a poor squad by championship standards.

Mucca Mad Boys · Apr 12, 2013

stupot07 said:
I'm sorry Charlie, but that squad was a poor squad by championship standards.

It was poor, but I good manager could've made a poor squad, a mediocre squad. Look at Dyche at Watford, they were expected to go down, they finished 13th, punching above their weight.

SkyBlueCharlie · Apr 12, 2013

stupot07 said:
I'm sorry Charlie, but that squad was a poor squad by championship standards.

Wouldn't argue with that Stupot but I think it was good enough, just, to keep us up. Whether it would have been capable of handling a full season without major reinforcement is highly unlikely which is where I think you and I would certainly appear to agree.

SkyBlueCharlie · Apr 12, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
It was poor, but I good manager could've made a poor squad, a mediocre squad. Look at Dyche at Watford, they were expected to go down, they finished 13th, punching above their weight.

For some reason SB_T my 'Like' button has disappeared on your post otherwise I would give a 'Like' for that. ( Nearly typed 'give you one' but quickly changed it as we don't want people to get talking about us do we?)

The CableGuy · Apr 12, 2013

stupot07 said:
You could argue that Jack Walker buying the title was the very start of the boom or bust ethos to football ownership.

I blame Sky and the greed of the top clubs for that.

Pre-Sky, being relegated from the top league wasn't great, kinda embarrassing, but not the end of the world.

Now, its a financial apocalypse. Even parachute payments don't help that much, West Ham needed the play-offs to bounce back and the other 2 relegated clubs that season didn't even get that far.

Isn't Chris Samba at QPR on £100,000 per week?

Crazy. Just crazy.

valiant15 · Apr 12, 2013

Taylor thinks southampton and Leicester are bigger clubs than us. How can this kid be taken serious?

ccfctommy · Apr 12, 2013

valiant15 said:
Taylor thinks southampton and Leicester are bigger clubs than us. How can this kid be taken serious?

Don't do the big club thing, but they get bigger gates and have done a lot more than us in recent years.

City have never been a 'big' club.

stupot07 · Apr 12, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
It was poor, but I good manager could've made a poor squad, a mediocre squad. Look at Dyche at Watford, they were expected to go down, they finished 13th, punching above their weight.

Would a decent manager suddenly have made Platt, ROD, Eastwood, Cody and Nimely into prolific goalscorers? The team that appeared the most

Murphy - average championship keeper - league one player
Christie - rookie season - league one player
Keogh - good player championship
Carnie - good player championship
Hussey - not good enough for league one - league two player
Bell - injured cant get in league one team
Clingan - couldn't get a contract with a league one club
Thomas - cant get in our league one team
Sheff - most posters say not good enough for our league one team
Platt - league two, doesn't score
Juke - championship

So out of that prefered team you have
3 playing championship
3 played regularly league one
2 league 2 players
2 league one subs/squad player
1 that couldn't get a contract at a club in our league.

valiant15 · Apr 12, 2013

Neither have those 2.

rupert_bear · Apr 12, 2013

Isn't Chris Samba at QPR on £100 said:
per week?

Crazy. Just crazy.

Yes and who is their manager, our 'Arry

Mucca Mad Boys · Apr 13, 2013

stupot07 said:
Would a decent manager suddenly have made Platt, ROD, Eastwood, Cody and Nimely into prolific goalscorers? The team that appeared the most

Murphy - average championship keeper - league one player
Christie - rookie season - league one player
Keogh - good player championship
Carnie - good player championship
Hussey - not good enough for league one - league two player
Bell - injured cant get in league one team
Clingan - couldn't get a contract with a league one club
Thomas - cant get in our league one team
Sheff - most posters say not good enough for our league one team
Platt - league two, doesn't score
Juke - championship

So out of that prefered team you have
3 playing championship
3 played regularly league one
2 league 2 players
2 league one subs/squad player
1 that couldn't get a contract at a club in our league.

A good manager would get the best out of them. Also wouldn't have wasted what meagre resources we did have on Cody and Nimely.

Thomas would've been a main man this season but for his injury, now there's rumours he's not playing because of contract clauses. Bigi has performed well in the Prem when called upon. McSheffrey was poor last season, BUT, he had moments of magic to bail him out, this season, he's lost that, but also plays poorly.

When a team drops over 20 points from winning positions and also many points in the last 10m, you know that with a good manager we could've stayed up.

valiant15 · Apr 13, 2013

Or better players.

stupot07 · Apr 13, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
A good manager would get the best out of them. Also wouldn't have wasted what meagre resources we did have on Cody and Nimely.

Thomas would've been a main man this season but for his injury, now there's rumours he's not playing because of contract clauses. Bigi has performed well in the Prem when called upon. McSheffrey was poor last season, BUT, he had moments of magic to bail him out, this season, he's lost that, but also plays poorly.

When a team drops over 20 points from winning positions and also many points in the last 10m, you know that with a good manager we could've stayed up.

A good manager would have got the best out of them - yes but what that have been good enough to stay up. Personally I don't think so, this was a poor squad with the expection of juke very poor goalless attacking players.

Thomas would have been the main man this season had it not been for his injury - we all wanted him to be, but we have no way of knowing whether robins would have picked him, and the contract thing is speculation. If its about making another start, what's stopped him having a more prominent role from the bench? And SP has said he will start playing fringe players, so if Thomas starts today that blows the myth out of the window. He is still very young.

Dropping 20 points - how many have we dropped this season, including under 'good' managers? 30 is it? Different day same old shit.

Thorn was a shit manager, that was a shit squad which lacked goals, experience, character. 3 teams get relegated, we deserved it.

Grendel · Apr 13, 2013

stupot07 said:
Thorn was a shit manager, that was a shit squad which lacked goals, experience, character. 3 teams get relegated, we deserved it.

A fitting summary of last season.

valiant15 · Apr 13, 2013

Blimey,the 3 of us agree on something!

Even I must admit.... (1 Viewer)

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