Do you want to discuss boring politics? (73 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

You do realise that's actually what comparing is?

I don’t agree but that’s ok we don’t have to agree.

I’m interested in your and others binary approach. Any sexual offences seem to have an additional stigma.

We should probably understand that this leave society at risk of more crime in this area and not less

That’s my point.
Would you stay in contact with a friend who was an alcoholic and help them?
Would you stay in contact with a friend who is struggling with drug addiction and help them?
Would you stay in contact with a friend who beat someone up and help them?

I know I’m wasting my time but I’ll keep trying because if people who commit sexual crime have accommodation on release from prison, contact with people and something to do they are hugely less likely to reoffend

I know you think I’m a naive prick with no life experience but thems the facts

 

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[rob9872]

Tbf Pete, reading back and despite all the petty cheap shots at each other, you opened it up by suggesting it should say 'white nonce' and leading the narrative that it always mentions it the other way. It doesn't, when the reverse is true, it often says Muslim, so on that basis rather than white you should have gone Christian or Agnostic and not brought colour into it. It reads as though you love the fact this is a white nonce, can't we all agree that all nonces are bad regardless of background? He's also a lone ranger, not working in gangs. Equally abhorrent on its own, and everyone rightly outraged, but when speaking about grooming gangs it's a different conversation.

Tbh you're a bit all over the place with it and if you revel in the fact that we've got our own cunts to justify the existence of others then I think I'd probably sit this one out.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t agree but that’s ok we don’t have to agree.

I’m interested in your and others binary approach. Any sexual offences seem to have an additional stigma.

We should probably understand that this leave society at risk of more crime in this area and not less

That’s my point.
Would you stay in contact with a friend who was an alcoholic and help them?
Would you stay in contact with a friend who is struggling with drug addiction and help them?
Would you stay in contact with a friend who beat someone up and help them?

I know I’m wasting my time but I’ll keep trying because if people who commit sexual crime have accommodation on release from prison, contact with people and something to do they are hugely less likely to reoffend

I know you think I’m a naive prick with no life experience but thems the facts

The options you present are binary.

Would you sympathise with an alcoholic? Depends as said alcoholic could when intoxicated smash his wifes face in every night with children cowering under the bed.

Likewise a drug addict that mugs a pensioner in the street as they "need" a fix

A friend beats his girlfriend as she doesn't want sex that night

Unfortunately as someone who has addictions I don't buy into this bullshit that things are beyond your control so you can excuse behaviours. I've seen people in groups convince themselves alcohol and drug abuse is worse than cancer as its never cured or sympathised with. I have heard people describe things they have done behind the sanctity of a Group that people just would not believe.

Actually people need to take ownership and stop or accept the consequence of their own behaviours.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Tbf Pete, reading back and despite all the petty cheap shots at each other, you opened it up by suggesting it should say 'white nonce' and leading the narrative that it always mentions it the other way. It doesn't, when the reverse is true, it often says Muslim, so on that basis rather than white you should have gone Christian or Agnostic and not brought colour into it. It reads as though you love the fact this is a white nonce, can't we all agree that all nonces are bad regardless of background? He's also a lone ranger, not working in gangs. Equally abhorrent on its own, and everyone rightly outraged, but when speaking about grooming gangs it's a different conversation.

Tbh you're a bit all over the place with it and if you revel in the fact that we've got our own cunts to justify the existence of others then I think I'd probably sit this one out.

Fair I did bring up the white stuff and I’m sorry for doing so
I don’t revel in it it’s just awful but if that’s impression I give I need to put that straight
It’s all equally abhorrent but obviously the more people affected the worse it is. Same with this guy the age and violence is pretty much something none of us can get our heads around
Thanks for jumping in

 

[Nick]

I don’t agree but that’s ok we don’t have to agree.

I’m interested in your and others binary approach. Any sexual offences seem to have an additional stigma.

We should probably understand that this leave society at risk of more crime in this area and not less

That’s my point.
Would you stay in contact with a friend who was an alcoholic and help them?
Would you stay in contact with a friend who is struggling with drug addiction and help them?
Would you stay in contact with a friend who beat someone up and help them?

I know I’m wasting my time but I’ll keep trying because if people who commit sexual crime have accommodation on release from prison, contact with people and something to do they are hugely less likely to reoffend

I know you think I’m a naive prick with no life experience but thems the facts

Pete, I don't find it acceptable to be friends with somebody who has sexually assaulted a child. It's as simple as that.

Maybe if more people would be like this then there would be less covering up of grooming gangs.

Having a mate who had a drunken fight isn't the same as having a mate who groomed and sexually assaulted a child.

 

[Grendel]

Pete, I don't find it acceptable to be friends with somebody who has sexually assaulted a child. It's as simple as that.

Maybe if more people would be like this then there would be less covering up of grooming gangs.

Having a mate who had a drunken fight isn't the same as having a mate who groomed and sexually assaulted a child.

He has fully swallowed the 12 step BS

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The options you present are binary.

Would you sympathise with an alcoholic? Depends as said alcoholic could when intoxicated smash his wifes face in every night with children cowering under the bed.

Likewise a drug addict that mugs a pensioner in the street as they "need" a fix

A friend beats his girlfriend as she doesn't want sex that night

Unfortunately as someone who has addictions I don't buy into this bullshit that things are beyond your control so you can excuse behaviours. I've seen people in groups convince themselves alcohol and drug abuse is worse than cancer as its never cured or sympathised with. I have heard people describe things they have done behind the sanctity of a Group that people just would not believe.

Actually people need to take ownership and stop or accept the consequence of their own behaviours.

Deliberately put as binary because they’re not i completely agree hence asking the questions

I think I agree about taking ownership especially as there is a lot of help available. Where I think you would agree is if you aren’t able to access the right help it might be at least a mitigation for your actions. Mental health being quite a big one in terms of chemical imbalances etc

Anyway Rob has put me right on this and I’ll try to be much clearer when I’m being funny or sarcastic or serious as there really are no givens between our discussions

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

He has fully swallowed the 12 step BS

Never needed to but think it’s quite well accepted as a useful model out of addiction

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Pete, I don't find it acceptable to be friends with somebody who has sexually assaulted a child. It's as simple as that.

Maybe if more people would be like this then there would be less covering up of grooming gangs.

Having a mate who had a drunken fight isn't the same as having a mate who groomed and sexually assaulted a child.

Ok I’d respect you either way. I wouldn’t think you were condoning their behaviour or actions if you did choose to. Your friendship may be what means they don’t offend again.

 

[Nick]

Ok I’d respect you either way. I wouldn’t think you were condoning their behaviour or actions if you did choose to. Your friendship may be what means they don’t offend again.

It might also mean that's no consequence so they keep doing it if their "friends" think it's ok.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It might also mean that's no consequence so they keep doing it if their "friends" think it's ok.

True especially if the contact is misunderstood

 

[Nick]

True especially if the contact is misunderstood

Even more so when friends and family help cover it up.

 

[Captain Dart]

Looks like he’ll survive the week and probably go after the local elections
Either stubborn or resilient depends on your view

I didn't think there were going to be many, hasn't Labour cancelled half of them to 'reorganise local government' or put more distance between the public and decision makers if you're an old cynic like me.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Even more so when friends and family help cover it up.

Completely agree or minimise what was done or the impact on those affected

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I didn't think there were going to be many, hasn't Labour cancelled half of them to 'reorganise local government' or put more distance between the public and decision makers if you're an old cynic like me.

Think the local councils asked for permission to cancel them if there were boundaries that were being reorganised and somewhere between that and your explanation lies the truth

 

[Grendel]

Never needed to but think it’s quite well accepted as a useful model out of addiction

It has a 93% failure rate

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Even more so when friends and family help cover it up.

I have to say my experience is friends and family think their continued contact would be seen to condone what’s been done and would negatively affect them

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It has a 93% failure rate

For alcohol?
for addiction full stop?
evidence please

is everyone being duped

Google Search

 

[Grendel]

I have to say my experience is friends and family think their continued contact would be seen to condone what’s been done and would negatively affect them

Out of interest and this is honestly true

A few years ago one of my friends had a friendship (I think fairly casual) with someone who I did comedy gigs in holiday camps. One day he said he was off for a while travelling with Nick Griffin as the BNP warm up for his speech - he admitted he was an active member. He never spoke to him again. Would you just accept his beliefs?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

For alcohol?
for addiction full stop?
evidence please

is everyone being duped

Google Search

This speaks to what you are saying but I can’t find anything that says it fails 93% of the time

I was told the 12 steps would cure my addiction. Why did I end up feeling more broken?

In this quasi-religious programme, ‘working the steps’ is the remedy for any problem, but for me the cracks soon started to show

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Out of interest and this is honestly true

A few years ago one of my friends had a friendship (I think fairly casual) with someone who I did comedy gigs in holiday camps. One day he said he was off for a while travelling with Nick Griffin as the BNP warm up for his speech - he admitted he was an active member. He never spoke to him again. Would you just accept his beliefs?

I struggle with hypotheticals , yes don’t laugh honestly I do

So I’ll talk about a current friendship with my neighbour who is a staunch reform voter for a few good reasons mostly bad ones and shares numerous memes on his social media that are deeply offensive about immigrants or Muslims etc.

In order to let him hear an alternative opinion I have to be willing to listen to him and respect his right to hold opinions different to mine. He’s a lovely bloke

So there would be a line but it wouldn’t be opinions I don’t think.

 

[Grendel]

For alcohol?
for addiction full stop?
evidence please

is everyone being duped

Google Search

Alcohol.

"Evidence please" - is ironic as you swallow subjective nonsense

Since its founding in the 1930s, Alcoholics Anonymous has become part of the fabric of American society. AA and the many 12-step groups it inspired have become the country's go-to solution for addiction in all of its forms. These recovery programs are mandated by drug courts, prescribed by doctors and widely praised by reformed addicts.

Dr. Lance Dodes sees a big problem with that. The psychiatrist has spent more than 20 years studying and treating addiction. His latest book on the subject is The Sober Truth: Debunking the Bad Science Behind 12-Step Programs and the Rehab Industry.

Dodes tells NPR's Arun Rath that 12-step recovery simply doesn't work, despite anecdotes about success.

"We hear from the people who do well; we don't hear from the people who don't do well," he says.

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Interview Highlights​

On Alcoholics Anonymous' success rate

There is a large body of evidence now looking at AA success rate, and the success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent. Most people don't seem to know that because it's not widely publicized. ... There are some studies that have claimed to show scientifically that AA is useful. These studies are riddled with scientific errors and they say no more than what we knew to begin with, which is that AA has probably the worst success rate in all of medicine.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Alcohol.

"Evidence please" - is ironic as you swallow subjective nonsense

.

Wow fuckin hell thanks so much
What’s npr??

 

[Grendel]

Wow fuckin hell thanks so much
What’s npr??

No idea - why?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Wow fuckin hell thanks so much
What’s npr??

This interesting too
Thanks for shining a light on this

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No idea - why?

You were citing it as expert evidence rather than subjective
Out of interest what subjective nonsense do I accept?

 

[Grendel]

This interesting too
Thanks for shining a light on this

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa

Oh and the irony is - and I got into all sorts of trouble for this - is that the founder Bill Wilson is lauded as a God in these circles - his biography does say he stayed sober but used it as a way to screw young vulnerable addicts while making a fortune. Sound familiar?

 

[Grendel]

You were citing it as expert evidence rather than subjective
Out of interest what subjective nonsense do I accept?

Its an article from a scientific research. Please don't tell me you have swallowed the 47% BS?

 

[rob9872]

Out of interest and this is honestly true

A few years ago one of my friends had a friendship (I think fairly casual) with someone who I did comedy gigs in holiday camps. One day he said he was off for a while travelling with Nick Griffin as the BNP warm up for his speech - he admitted he was an active member. He never spoke to him again. Would you just accept his beliefs?

I'm just trying to think how that gig would've gone, assuming what the audience might want. All i can visualise is Basil Fawlty and lots of low rent gags I'm amusing myself with. My head space can be such a curse!