Do you want to discuss boring politics? (26 Viewers)

[rob9872]

Where are you getting that from? I posted less than half an hour ago calling him a c**t who preys on people who are "stranded" politically.

Must be another weird thing like when you try to get likes from imagining I'm small and round.

It's just more whataboutery. Ah you must be a Tommy fan, a Farage fan or other RW insult. It's deflection and yet it works time and time again, because nobody likes being labelled racist and its intention is to shut down sensible debate.

 

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[Nick]

Afraid of reprisals from the wider community and prefer to say we're working with them. If that were true it would be the right thing to do, but the communities know fek all will happen and many of them take the piss. Any opportunity, just shout racist and failing that, protest/riot until there is a climbdown. Until the Imam's start actually calling out their own and helping the police not just soundbite statements, then nothing will change. The mosques are pretty much harbouring known offenders.

Exactly.

Labour mayor 'helped hide evidence' after son was arrested for rape

Naheed Ejaz, 61, delayed letting police in to give her son, Diwan Khan, 41, time to hide a phone with video of the alleged rape on it, a court has heard.

www.express.co.uk

You have actual terrorists allowed to stand for election in Birmingham.

Communities have to change how they protect people like it because they are "brothers". This also goes for rich people too.....

 

[Nick]

It's just more whataboutery. Ah you must be a Tommy fan, a Farage fan or other RW insult. It's deflection and yet it works time and time again, because nobody likes being labelled racist and its intention is to shut down sensible debate.

Funny really. The same sort of behaviour during the sisu era from a "gang" of middle aged white blokes led by a certain bloke who's come under a lot of scrutiny about grooming gangs.. their favourite was "you work for sisu" and trying to get in touch with employers if anybody said anything about the council.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yep money now dictates right from wrong in the USA and certainly dictates access to justice in the uk

Take the Hillsborough disaster, Grenfell and post office scandals as examples. The common denominator is that the victims were ordinary people who were up against people in positions of authority and power and have had to fight ridiculously hard for justice.

The victims of grooming gangs and sexual exploitation are some of the most vulnerable and least well off of all. So it doesn't surprise me that their voices have been the most ignored of all too. I don't think this comes down to authorities wanting to protect the perpetrators, I do think it comes down to them not caring about the victims. The net result of course is the same.

 

[mmttww]

tries to deflect with "what about the British nonces".

You're assuming its deflecting and I think that's a cop out and it's lazy. People pointing out that the amount of chat re: grooming gangs on here and in wider circles being easy to find vs. chat about horrific sh*t carried out by other ethnicities is, in my experience, challenging people to reflect on whether their issue is with the horrific sh*t or the people doing it.

Jon Stewart said it best. 'You have to be consistent with your outrage'. I think what you're calling 'deflection' is people challenging you or others to be consistent. I browse here a lot and it just isn't the way it is i.e. there's an outrage bias re: certain stories.

 

[Nick]

You're assuming its deflecting and I think that's a cop out and it's lazy. People pointing out that the amount of chat re: grooming gangs on here and in wider circles being easy to find vs. chat about horrific sh*t carried out by other ethnicities is, in my experience, challenging people to reflect on whether their issue is with the horrific sh*t or the people doing it.

Jon Stewart said it best. 'You have to be consistent with your outrage'. I think what you're calling 'deflection' is people challenging you or others to be consistent. I browse here a lot and it just isn't the way it is i.e. there's a massive outrage bias towards certain stories.

This is another issue, you are saying to be consistent with your outrage but you are the worst for being inconsistent.

The deflection is just that, it's not challenging consistency. What have I been inconsistent about? Have a look through threads where it's a white person carrying out something shocking (the one who attacked the BBC guys family with a crossbow was white?).

All you are doing is proving my point, you are spouting random shite to try and deflect from the points made Get back in the Israel thread telling people you are ashamed to be a city fan because they aren't as angry as you about it. I don't know if it's a self awareness thing but the biggest hypocrites on here don't even realise it.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

This is another issue, you are saying to be consistent with your outrage but you are the worst for being inconsistent.

The deflection is just that, it's not challenging consistency. What have I been inconsistent about? Have a look through threads where it's a white person carrying out something shocking (the one who attacked the BBC guys family with a crossbow was white?).

All you are doing is proving my point, you are spouting random shite to try and deflect from the points made Get back in the Israel thread telling people you are ashamed to be a city fan because they aren't as angry as you about it. I don't know if it's a self awareness thing but the biggest hypocrites on here don't even realise it.

So you just deflected from his challenge to your consistency?

 

[Nick]

So you just deflected from his challenge to your consistency?

I didn't though, I responded to that.

You aren't clever enough to try and do what you do. You act like the internet and trying to be a c**t on it is a new thing, do it properly or give up.

You are also just proving the point.

 

[SBAndy]

This is another issue, you are saying to be consistent with your outrage but you are the worst for being inconsistent.

The deflection is just that, it's not challenging consistency. What have I been inconsistent about? Have a look through threads where it's a white person carrying out something shocking (the one who attacked the BBC guys family with a crossbow was white?).

All you are doing is proving my point, you are spouting random shite to try and deflect from the points made Get back in the Israel thread telling people you are ashamed to be a city fan because they aren't as angry as you about it. I don't know if it's a self awareness thing but the biggest hypocrites on here don't even realise it.

You are, in fairness, absolutely consistent with wanting anyone found guilty of sexual crimes to be murdered in some of the most creative ways possible.

A question re the whole grooming gang thing: without looking, I’d imagine that whilst there are many Muslim perpetrators they will primarily be British citizens. Given we can’t deport British citizens to anywhere else, what would be your policy solution to it all?

 

[wingy]

Given that change's to the law etc over the last twenty year's specifically the rape law's, I wouldn't hold out to much hope here, and as I've said previously there are leaders in America who seem aufet with some of the values in the Muslim community, just finished reading about an honour killing of a Turkish girl who was raped.

 

[wingy]

Kids have no hope today of recieving justice when people and I think you know what I mean here, people who inhabit the world of Blair and his ilk just see them as something to be exploited both morally and financially.

 

[Nick]

You are, in fairness, absolutely consistent with wanting anyone found guilty of sexual crimes to be murdered in some of the most creative ways possible.

A question re the whole grooming gang thing: without looking, I’d imagine that whilst there are many Muslim perpetrators they will primarily be British citizens. Given we can’t deport British citizens to anywhere else, what would be your policy solution to it all?

Oh no, I know it isn't a case of deport everybody. I think personally the communities should be looked at and punished as well. I'm not saying send every member of a mosque (or high rollers gentlemans club) to prison but let's face it, they will cover things up and defend their brothers to the death, even if they have been grooming kids.

"Grooming Gangs" and People in HMOs and hotels who are here illegally and carry out the crimes are 2 kettles of fish although the mentallity and the beliefs are the same.

There are people like Jess Phillips who bang on about women's rights and rightly be outraged when that copper raped and killed the woman a few years ago. As soon as anything is said about somebody being muslim and their beliefs there's silence.

It isn't just the grooming or the rape cases, there's the Manchester Airport thing. It kicked off outside the police station, you had that prick lawyer and their victim poses. People genuinally belief they had done nothing wrong and were victims simply because of their religion and backed them. Have a look at that Lawyer's views on women as well....

The thing that sums it up best are the people like "gays or trans for palestine", they want to come across as heroes for as many causes but it contradicts. Much like people on here sometimes who want to be fighting for every trending cause.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I was being polite for hypocritical.

Starmer could be in bed with your Mrs and you would tuck him in and go and shout about farage being at fault.

Ok, whatever!

Talk about whataboutery

In what way am I a hypocrite

 

[Nick]

Ok, whatever!

Talk about whataboutery

In what way am I a hypocrite

It says in the post you quoted

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You are, in fairness, absolutely consistent with wanting anyone found guilty of sexual crimes to be murdered in some of the most creative ways possible.

A question re the whole grooming gang thing: without looking, I’d imagine that whilst there are many Muslim perpetrators they will primarily be British citizens. Given we can’t deport British citizens to anywhere else, what would be your policy solution to it all?

That is what a big part of the problem is I think. A lot of it is second generation, not even people that have just rocked up and can claim not to know any better. It raises a lot of questions about integration on a wider scale.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Exactly.

Labour mayor 'helped hide evidence' after son was arrested for rape

Naheed Ejaz, 61, delayed letting police in to give her son, Diwan Khan, 41, time to hide a phone with video of the alleged rape on it, a court has heard.

www.express.co.uk

You have actual terrorists allowed to stand for election in Birmingham.

Communities have to change how they protect people like it because they are "brothers". This also goes for rich people too.....

Yep criminality can’t be condoned it’s not just one community though

 

[mmttww]

you are the worst for being inconsistent..

again, name and shame. on what issue(s)?

Edit: hoped it might take more than two posts before you made it personal but nah, there you go.

 

[Nick]

Yep criminality can’t be condoned it’s not just one community though

I literally said it wasn't one but still, best deflect from a certain one.

 

[Nick]

again, name and shame. on what issue(s)?

Again, I already have but you took it out of the quote.

You are saying people need to be consistent about their outrage while being the worst for over the top bullshit on something.

Anything to not discuss the point though, right?

 

[mmttww]

Anything to not discuss the point though, right?

Feel free to arrive at the point at any time, Nick. I stand by what I said about Gaza. It's shameful to me that any fan of a factory team in a city destroyed by fascists would even hint at being an apologist for the Israeli regime or try to justify what they're doing.

I assume you've picked that as you think that shows some kind of inconsistency of outrage. If you can one example where I've sided with the oppressor and not the oppressed, feel free to share it and I'll cop to being a dickhead. Otherwise, nah. Not having it.

 

[Nick]

Feel free to arrive at the point at any time, Nick. I stand by what I said about Gaza. It's shameful to me that any fan of a factory team in a city destroyed by fascists would even hint at being an apologist for the Israeli regime and try to find justification for what they're doing.

I assume you've picked that as you think that shows some kind of inconsistency of outrage. If you can one example where I've sided with the oppressor and not the oppressed, feel free to share it and I'll cop to being a dickhead. Otherwise, nah.

I got to the point a while ago and it was quite clear.

You tried to slyly make out I'm racist and only say things about sex offenders if they are a certain race when you only need to check threads or know me to see I'm overly consistent regardless of their colour.

I'm not going to be preached to about being from Coventry on a ccfc forum from somebody who was begging for wasps tickets about morals. Stick to being outraged about whatever is popular at the time. #pray4ukraine

Again, it gets the topic away doesn't it? Just throw racism in if anybody dares.

 

[mmttww]

I'm not going to be preached to about being from Coventry on a ccfc forum from somebody who was begging for wasps tickets about morals.

Hahaha! I figured that one would get wheeled out next. Why do you even post in here? You can't go one round of back and forth without cracking out the personal insults. It's mad to me.

You say certain people won't discuss certain things and just deflect, and within two posts of a certain person challenging what you've said you've made it personal twice. Come on! FFS.

 

[mmttww]

anyway, I cba clogging up a thread with back and forth between us so DM me if you want. Hopefully neither of us cba with that and we leave it be.

 

[Grendel]

anyway, I cba clogging up a thread with back and forth between us so DM me if you want. Hopefully neither of us cba with that and we leave it be.

I think the point of reference is that you’d be ashamed to share support of a club with someone who doesn’t defend the actions of a prescribed terrorist group. It’s a bit strange to say the least.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

That is what a big part of the problem is I think. A lot of it is second generation, not even people that have just rocked up and can claim not to know any better. It raises a lot of questions about integration on a wider scale.

People routinely drive away from car accidents this is not the gotcha you think it is for one community

Families defend families
Friends defend
Christians defend Christians
Muslims defend Muslims

it raises a lot of questions about decency and power and greed and money and integrity and justice

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It says in the post you quoted

Fair enough thanks

 

[mmttww]

I think the point of reference is that you’d be ashamed to share support of a club with someone who doesn’t defend the actions of a prescribed terrorist group. It’s a bit strange to say the least.

It was about people cheering grannies getting arrested en masse for saying they support a group who's proscribing was IMO a political move to appease a genocidal regime. I'm good with what I've said and the thought that went into my position. If we wanna talk about that we've got a thread for it so if either of us cba to talk it over, we can head over there. Hopefully neither of us cba to have that same chat again, though. I think we covered it the first time.

 

[Nick]

Hahaha! I figured that one would get wheeled out next. Why do you even post in here? You can't go one round of back and forth without cracking out the personal insults. It's mad to me.

You say certain people won't discuss certain things and just deflect, and within two posts of a certain person challenging what you've said you've made it personal twice. Come on! FFS.

I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure it was you who jumped in quoting me and saying I'm not consistent and it's about the people committing it and not the crime. Ie thinly veiled "racism" shout.

One thing I'm actually consistent about is about the death penalty for certain crimes.

Maybe it's the self awareness thing where you don't even realise? You now revert to the victim act, not really personally insulting you by stating facts.

All you have done is prove my point that the play is to cry racism or try and deflect. You have done both.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Shocking - the government is becoming like the Stasi

‘Sneaky’ Law Change Could Criminalise Peaceful Protest Against Animal Testing | Naturewatch Foundation

Naturewatch Foundation is urging MPs to vote against a Statutory Instrument that represents an attack on democratic protest and transparency of animal testing.

naturewatch.org

Firstly, I agree with you on the overall point of animal testing.

I'm sure that piece isn't entirely unbiased and it's not the 'they're saying places where they hurt puppies are protected infrastructure!" they're making out. Many of the facilities will do many things that are vital in terms of science and research.

But you have seemed very much in favour of peaceful protestors being convicted for blocking 'protected infrastructure' for other campaigns. Many of those campaigners would claim that the facilities they chose do enormous environmental and health damage with things like air or water pollution etc. hence why they believe they are viable targets for peaceful protest. Why the sudden outrage now just because it's a cause you care deeply for?

 

[Grendel]

It was about people cheering grannies getting arrested en masse for saying they support a group who's proscribing was IMO a political move to appease a genocidal regime. I'm good with what I've said and the thought that went into my position. If we wanna talk about that we've got a thread for it so if either of us cba to talk it over, we can head over there. Hopefully neither of us cba to have that same chat again, though. I think we covered it the first time.

It’s still politics. So there’s no need to swap threads - if you believe they are justified that’s fine but plenty thought the IRA were fine in their actions. You agree with the law or you face the consequences.

If I was now single at my age and with no responsibilities I’d be down at Cambridge and protesting against the Stasi style law passed in the lords the other day and would be happy to be arrested. That’s surely the point of wanting tk break laws and sorry but the plight of these animals is far more important to me than Gaza

https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/cambridgeshire-beagle-animal-experiments/

 

[Grendel]

Firstly, I agree with you on the overall point of animal testing.

I'm sure that piece isn't entirely unbiased and it's not the 'they're saying places where they hurt puppies are protected infrastructure!" they're making out. Many of the facilities will do many things that are vital in terms of science and research.

But you have seemed very much in favour of peaceful protestors being convicted for blocking 'protected infrastructure' for other campaigns. Many of those campaigners would claim that the facilities they chose do enormous environmental and health damage with things like air or water pollution etc. hence why they believe they are viable targets for peaceful protest. Why the sudden outrage now just because it's a cause you care deeply for?

These protestors aren’t doing any damage they are standing on a road - I don’t think you understand what the ruling means?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To be fair Pete, when it comes to these topics you're the most random.

Starmer could be caught on epsteins island and you would be trying to blame farage for it.

Tbf to Nick, I don't think it's about naming who doesn't participate and certainly no shame on them for not wanting to be labelled. I think the key is that as soon as a particular ethnicity/religion of the majority (not all) of the gangs, particularly in a geographical area of the north of England, the same 'lazy' argument is just to shout 'racist'. That doesn't achieve anything, certainly not fixing the problem or helping the victims. 100% accept that TR etc all jump on that bandwagon to hide behind whilst being racist and that certainly doesn't help either.

His other point on the whataboutery of 'yeah, but British nonces' also carries no weight imo We know we have cunts of our own, nobody is saying don't deal with them too, but the particular problem with a certain demographic seems to almost endemic and should be addressed. I genuinely believe that authorities are too scared to act properly as they should for fear of reprisals and that's not a great place to be.

To you and Nick we had a very costly report done that the recommendations are still not done up till now
Pretty sure the person with the most goodwill towards prosecuting pakistani grooming gangs spoke very highly of the work put in by Starmer changing some of the rules to make it possible
Why aren’t people demanding action?
Why aren’t people demanding proper funding for children and adult social care?
When is it we will do something about the root causes rather than taking swipes at people in leadership who have little influence over how everything works

As I said Starmer has shown himself to be a pretty poor and naive pm and because I haven’t spent 18 months saying he’s the worst pm in 150 years I want him to sleep with my wife

Fundamentally the issue with justice in this country has nothing to do with racism it’s all money. We don’t spend enough on the criminal justice system and it’s gone beyond breaking and the only way you get any justice is if you can pay or know someone in a position of power

What can we do about that?

We can say it’s immigrants or immigrations fault or this or the community and point fingers at individuals that aren’t us or groups that we aren’t part of or we can get off our arses and do something about it and I don’t mean vote

 

[Nick]

People routinely drive away from car accidents this is not the gotcha you think it is for one community

Families defend families
Friends defend
Christians defend Christians
Muslims defend Muslims

it raises a lot of questions about decency and power and greed and money and integrity and justice

Of course people will defend and gather round in times of need.

You keep trying to make out it's about money and power, there's literally no excuse for a mum or a community to try and cover up child rape.

If somebody knows their community and family will back them then that's all you really need to know about the community.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Take the Hillsborough disaster, Grenfell and post office scandals as examples. The common denominator is that the victims were ordinary people who were up against people in positions of authority and power and have had to fight ridiculously hard for justice.

The victims of grooming gangs and sexual exploitation are some of the most vulnerable and least well off of all. So it doesn't surprise me that their voices have been the most ignored of all too. I don't think this comes down to authorities wanting to protect the perpetrators, I do think it comes down to them not caring about the victims. The net result of course is the same.

Damn straight
And where are our points of influence?
It’s you at the chess club
It’s me with my union work
It’s Nick running this forum
It’s the rubbish collectors in their communities
It’s those on the Samaritans helpline
It’s those who choose to do the right thing despite the consequence for them personally

Anything else is fear and blame and leads to disconnection and division

 

[Nick]

To you and Nick we had a very costly report done that the recommendations are still not done up till now
Pretty sure the person with the most goodwill towards prosecuting pakistani grooming gangs spoke very highly of the work put in by Starmer changing some of the rules to make it possible
Why aren’t people demanding action?
Why aren’t people demanding proper funding for children and adult social care?
When is it we will do something about the root causes rather than taking swipes at people in leadership who have little influence over how everything works

As I said Starmer has shown himself to be a pretty poor and naive pm and because I haven’t spent 18 months saying he’s the worst pm in 150 years I want him to sleep with my wife

Fundamentally the issue with justice in this country has nothing to do with racism it’s all money. We don’t spend enough on the criminal justice system and it’s gone beyond breaking and the only way you get any justice is if you can pay or know someone in a position of power

What can we do about that?

We can say it’s immigrants or immigrations fault or this or the community and point fingers at individuals that aren’t us or groups that we aren’t part of or we can get off our arses and do something about it and I don’t mean vote

The justice system was fine when it was putting people in prison for tweeting within a couple of weeks?