Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well if the alternative is Farage then yeah I'm behind him. Not sure why any sensible person wouldn't be.

Doesn't mean I think he's doing a brilliant job. At no point have I said he is. As others have said, the hate is way out of proportion though.

I want him gone while there’s still time to turn the tide of popular support.

 

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[SBAndy]

Probably not but when you put all the problems as down to ‘14 years of Tory rule’ and the ‘grown ups’ will fix everything… when that doesn’t happen, it all unravels rapidly. People tend to forget that a lot of pent up anger towards Labour started under Blair and Brown.

You can see my post from last year, I said that Starmer was not suited to fix the specific issues this country faces. Much in the same way Sunak was ill-suited to a billionaire PM in the midst of a cost of living crisis. I voted for the Tories begrudgingly.

To take one issue: Immigration. That alone helped to annihilate the Tories and Labour only won back the ‘Red Wall’ because of the betrayal of voters by Johnson coalition of voters and unsurprisingly, that same ‘Red wall’ is about to become teal.

Structurally, without Scotland or the Red Wall, Labour have not and probably cannot win a general election, let alone the loss of Wales. Go through all the elections Labour have won and you’ll see dominance in Wales, Scotland and the ‘Red Wall’. Without it, it’s finished and Keir Starmer and much of the modern Labour Party does not connect with that constituency of voter. Great amongst metropolitan people, public sector workers, university students and welfare claimants. The only mainstream Labour politician off-hand is relatable to most working class voters is Rayner and even then she’s just been found to be fiddling the rules on stamp duty. ‘One rule for them…’ and all that.

That’s without considering the impact of a Zach Polanski and Your Party offering more economically populist policies.

Right now, Labour is going the way of continental centre-left parties and it’s not looking good.

Setting aside the actual ‘political coalition’ talk (most of which I agree with btw)…

My overriding point is: explain what rational reason people have for chanting that he’s a wanker at the football/darts/etc if people can think for themselves and he’s not been dreadful? I’ll qualify the final bit as I don’t want the impression being that I think he’s been good, v much lower mid-table. Do you think it’s solely down to immigration?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Setting aside the actual ‘political coalition’ talk (most of which I agree with btw)…

My overriding point is: explain what rational reason people have for chanting that he’s a wanker at the football/darts/etc if people can think for themselves and he’s not been dreadful? I’ll qualify the final bit as I don’t want the impression being that I think he’s been good, v much lower mid-table. Do you think it’s solely down to immigration?

No, I used immigration as one visible issue that’s also one of, if not the top issue for voters when polled. In my view, it ties into other policies areas (such as housing & stagnating wage growth). Starmer made the exact same mistake as Sunak did by personally tying their success to the small boats. Things have gone backwards here and no gangs have been smashed as promised. So this is undeniably a factor. It’s one of the reasons Sunak’s popularity had tanked from being a historically popular chancellor to deeply unpopular PM.

This year has been chaotic for the government and a lot of the issues are of their own doing. Unlike the Tories who dealt with COVID, Brexit and the Ukraine War in one parliament, Labour have had no external crisis to deal with. At a push, you could argue Trump’s tariffs.

In last budget, the perceptions that it was a ‘benefits budget’ is deeply damaging and it really feels like Labour do not support ‘working people’. It’s definition that a ‘working person’ is earnings of £45k and below which is ludicrous. Most nurses will be on this in a few years.

To be balanced, Labour are to some extent victims of circumstances in the sense that they probably still underestimate how angry the country is. By now, the electorate can sense that this PM and cabinet is just out of its depth.

For what it’s worth, I fully believe the Tories got what they deserved. Their time in government was a terrible. A point I suspect you agree with, albeit for different reasons!

Anyway, to all who reads this… Merry Christmas and hope you all have a lovely day today and tomorrow. I’ll get back to peeling spuds for tomorrow!

 

[LarryGrayson]

Let's face it, you have absolutely no idea what it is like to be a farmer.

Frankly, anyone that voted for Labour shouldn't be trying to lecture other people on politics.

yea your the expert mate in all you show em lol

 

[Grendel]

It's really not proportional at all. It's because the press are largely right learning, and places like Twitter/X have become an echo chamber. The problem is although he is hated, the Torys caused most of this mess with austerity, Brexit and Liz truss budget, and Farage would be a complete disaster.

The press bias doesn’t really wash as traditional strong areas are collapsing - look at Wales where they’ve been the dominant party for over 100 years

Reform holds 11% lead over Plaid Cymru in Westminster election poll, as centre left vote fragments in Wales

Martin Shipton Reform UK has an 11 point lead over Plaid Cymru in the latest YouGov/Cardiff University opinion poll for Westminster voting intentions, as centre-left support becomes increasingly fragmented across multiple parties amid an increase in support for the Greens. The latest poll...

nation.cymru

One poll had Labour across wales at 10%

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The press bias doesn’t really wash as traditional strong areas are collapsing - look at Wales where they’ve been the dominant party for over 100 years

Reform holds 11% lead over Plaid Cymru in Westminster election poll, as centre left vote fragments in Wales

Martin Shipton Reform UK has an 11 point lead over Plaid Cymru in the latest YouGov/Cardiff University opinion poll for Westminster voting intentions, as centre-left support becomes increasingly fragmented across multiple parties amid an increase in support for the Greens. The latest poll...

nation.cymru

One poll had Labour across wales at 10%

Anger at the establishment which is why is madness that they are flocking to Farage tice and Anderson

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The press bias doesn’t really wash as traditional strong areas are collapsing - look at Wales where they’ve been the dominant party for over 100 years

Reform holds 11% lead over Plaid Cymru in Westminster election poll, as centre left vote fragments in Wales

Martin Shipton Reform UK has an 11 point lead over Plaid Cymru in the latest YouGov/Cardiff University opinion poll for Westminster voting intentions, as centre-left support becomes increasingly fragmented across multiple parties amid an increase in support for the Greens. The latest poll...

nation.cymru

One poll had Labour across wales at 10%

It’s a boring narrative point that it’s all because of the ‘right wing press’, it’s a bogeyman.

Labour’s traditional support collapsed to the SNP in Scotland as well as Plaid Cymru (and Reform) in Wales, two parties nominally to the left of Labour.

Labour politicians are all from socially upward families brought up under Thatcher. They are all bourgeoisie in their world view and that’s why they no longer live on the same planet as their parents did.

 

[Grendel]

Anger at the establishment which is why is madness that they are flocking to Farage tice and Anderson

Do you think if peoples lives were improving they’d seek alternative solutions?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Do you think if peoples lives were improving they’d seek alternative solutions?

People are easily led

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

People are easily led

So are you, if would seem.

 

[fernandopartridge]

They can think for themselves and this government has been a disaster. In fact, you'd even agree on this point so not sure why you would even say that.

With respect, middle-class lefties tend to be some of the most patronising people I've come across. Have you ever considered that you may actually be wrong and not everyone else is stupid for once?

I don't think it's their political persuasion making them that way judging by this post

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So are you, if would seem.

Often I’m sure
I have a different perspective to you
The furore is bizarre