Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

If she actually lowers personal allowances and then tries to claim she’s kept her promises she really is a fucking idiot

from your pov as a business owner, what do you think is the first thing she should do?

 

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[Grendel]

from your pov as a business owner, what do you think is the first thing she should do?

It’s never going to happen but you’d lower VAT on material purchases for a period. The NI increase was idiotic and it stops recruitment. Increase capital allowances back to 130% as it was in COVID to try and get investment back into industry

What if course you really need though is no uncertainty and having to wait and speculate white latest dead rabbit will be pulled out of the hat

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It’s never going to happen but you’d lower VAT on material purchases for a period. The NI increase was idiotic and it stops recruitment. Increase capital allowances back to 130% as it was in COVID to try and get investment back into industry

What if course you really need though is no uncertainty and having to wait and speculate white latest dead rabbit will be pulled out of the hat

To add onto this, our energy policies are disastrous and some of the most expensive in the developed world. To generalise, we’re almost voluntarily deindustrialising.

Energy prices and economic growth are closely linked.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To add onto this, our energy policies are disastrous and some of the most expensive in the developed world. To generalise, we’re almost voluntarily deindustrialising.

Energy prices and economic growth are closely linked.

We should have invested heavily in nuclear power decades ago, and simultaneously cut our dependence on fossil fuels while reducing prices and maintaining employment. The ship has probably sailed now but it was a huge missed trick.

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s never going to happen but you’d lower VAT on material purchases for a period. The NI increase was idiotic and it stops recruitment. Increase capital allowances back to 130% as it was in COVID to try and get investment back into industry

What if course you really need though is no uncertainty and having to wait and speculate white latest dead rabbit will be pulled out of the hat

Not sure about VAT as guessing that would be costly but agree with the other stuff. There’s been nothing to encourage growth in the private sector and the continued anti-wealth background noise is not going to encourage people to invest or set up here. Couple that with poor productivity in the public sector and it just feels bad at the moment and I say that as a pretty optimistic person

edit - my mate who works in housing development said nothings changed in planning either, certainly not with the local authorities he’s dealing with. Planning officer signs off as ticks all boxes, planning committee (a load of unqualified councillors) still gets involved and want a load of additional changes, leading to delays/appeals which is increases funding and development costs making some projects unviable others get delayed or mothballed

 

[fernandopartridge]

It’s never going to happen but you’d lower VAT on material purchases for a period. The NI increase was idiotic and it stops recruitment. Increase capital allowances back to 130% as it was in COVID to try and get investment back into industry

What if course you really need though is no uncertainty and having to wait and speculate white latest dead rabbit will be pulled out of the hat

It's one of the most disappointing things about Brexit is that VAT 'reform' has never really been considered. I think VAT is regressive for both small businesses and low earners.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's one of the most disappointing things about Brexit is that VAT 'reform' has never really been considered. I think VAT is regressive for both small businesses and low earners.

Fully agree. It was hiked up to 20% as what I thought was a temporary measure but it’s just stayed ever since.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's one of the most disappointing things about Brexit is that VAT 'reform' has never really been considered. I think VAT is regressive for both small businesses and low earners.

Agreed and particularly on energy costs. One of the fundamental problems with the OBR is that is inherently biased against any tax cuts. Removing 5% VAT from energy bills would technically mean less revenue, but there's a multiplier effect when people will spend cash elsewhere, probably on 20% VAT goods.

Longer term, I'd like to see VAT be reduced to 15% and in other areas like hospitality, VAT reduced to 7.5-10%. One of the striking things about being in Portugal is that their VAT on food in restaurants is 7.5%. If that were the case in the UK, people would be more willing to go out more.

The OBR is something that should probably be scrapped imo, it's not even an accurate forecaster.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Agreed and particularly on energy costs. One of the fundamental problems with the OBR is that is inherently biased against any tax cuts. Removing 5% VAT from energy bills would technically mean less revenue, but there's a multiplier effect when people will spend cash elsewhere, probably on 20% VAT goods.

Longer term, I'd like to see VAT be reduced to 15% and in other areas like hospitality, VAT reduced to 7.5-10%. One of the striking things about being in Portugal is that their VAT on food in restaurants is 7.5%. If that were the case in the UK, people would be more willing to go out more.

The OBR is something that should probably be scrapped imo, it's not even an accurate forecaster.

OBR was brought in to provide political cover for austerity whether in the form of spending cuts or tax increases, agree with you that it should be abolished. I find ministers referring to the OBR as the reason why it has made a certain decision is anti-democratic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Agreed and particularly on energy costs. One of the fundamental problems with the OBR is that is inherently biased against any tax cuts. Removing 5% VAT from energy bills would technically mean less revenue, but there's a multiplier effect when people will spend cash elsewhere, probably on 20% VAT goods.

Longer term, I'd like to see VAT be reduced to 15% and in other areas like hospitality, VAT reduced to 7.5-10%. One of the striking things about being in Portugal is that their VAT on food in restaurants is 7.5%. If that were the case in the UK, people would be more willing to go out more.

The OBR is something that should probably be scrapped imo, it's not even an accurate forecaster.

On the second paragraph, 100% agree. VAT in the UK has not tracked the structure of the economy at all, we are a service based economy.

176k businesses in the hotel and catering sector in 2025 up from 132k in 2014. It's a big sector which employs a lot of people and is provider for some real hygiene human needs (food and socialisation).

You mention Portugal, but Spain isn't much different, I think the rate is 10% there.

 

[mmttww]

Whats streeting done?

I meant I'm gutted about how sh*t all parties are.

 

[PVA]

Agree on VAT. We do work for both commercial and private clients and so many of the private clients ask if they can pay cash to avoid the VAT (I don't do it, just to clarify).

 

[Sick Boy]

On the second paragraph, 100% agree. VAT in the UK has not tracked the structure of the economy at all, we are a service based economy.

176k businesses in the hotel and catering sector in 2025 up from 132k in 2014. It's a big sector which employs a lot of people and is provider for some real hygiene human needs (food and socialisation).

You mention Portugal, but Spain isn't much different, I think the rate is 10% there.

It’s the same in Italy - the standard is 22% but most essentials are either 10% or 4%.

 

[chiefdave]

The problem with Reform is that they don’t really have anything apart from going on about immigration. Their councils seem to be a shambles; I’m no longer convinced they’ll maintain the momentum for the GE - maybe we’ll end up with a coalition of all parties!

The weekend of the reform conference was the first time I've seen Farage on his regular TV rounds actually being challenged on policy. It was an absolute car crash. He had no answers to anything. The issue of course is both if that sort of questioning will continue and if it even cuts through to their potential voters.

That isn’t their platform at all. The polling data shared on here shows that they cut through on other issues.

I think there's a subtle, but very important, difference between voters being concerned about a particular issue and believing any party has the answer to that issue.

It highlights the issue Reform faces. It has drawn support with a very basic platform. What happens when, for example, their policy on climate is published. How do they please both climate change sceptics and climate change activists they have attracted to the party?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Agree on VAT. We do work for both commercial and private clients and so many of the private clients ask if they can pay cash to avoid the VAT (I don't do it, just to clarify).

It is an industry in itself, one of the services the company I work for sells is VAT advice, and no doubt the big four who are all firmly entrenched in the major parties make a lot of money advising on VAT themselves.

 

[mmttww]

so basically we all think each other are pricks, but mention VAT and it's like a sh*t version of Xmas football in no-man's land? Love the internet.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

OBR was brought in to provide political cover for austerity whether in the form of spending cuts or tax increases, agree with you that it should be abolished. I find ministers referring to the OBR as the reason why it has made a certain decision is anti-democratic.

It was continuing a trend of the New Labour years where every institution needed an ‘independent’ quango. Of course, the independence of these institutions is in name only because all of their assumptions are premised on v narrow parameters.

Politically, the Tories pushed on with it to doom future Labour governments, in the long run it ended up entrenching never ending tax rises and spending restraints. This favours neither the main traditional parties as Liz Truss found out and this government.

We may not see eye to eye on this, but the expansion of quangos has done a lot of harm to our democracy because it’s taken political power away from ministers. Dominic Cummings was v scathing of how ministers are more or less figureheads and actual power lay in the cabinet office and ‘independent’ quangos.

It is an industry in itself, one of the services the company I work for sells is VAT advice, and no doubt the big four who are all firmly entrenched in the major parties make a lot of money advising on VAT themselves.

Consultants and consultancy firms are the worst. A lot of time you’re paying them to tell you the sky is blue and when they give recommendations, they never have to deal with the consequences. Charities and the public sector get completely ripped off by them. Quite an ironic story was that a Reform-led council spent £1.4m on consultancy fees for their DOGE operations.

For my sins, it’s an industry I nearly got into, but in my field, people tend to go public sector > consultancy > in house.

 

[ccfc1292]

BBC burying their Trump apology deep in their website.

Impartial etc though.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was continuing a trend of the New Labour years where every institution needed an ‘independent’ quango. Of course, the independence of these institutions is in name only because all of their assumptions are premised on v narrow parameters.

Politically, the Tories pushed on with it to doom future Labour governments, in the long run it ended up entrenching never ending tax rises and spending restraints. This favours neither the main traditional parties as Liz Truss found out and this government.

We may not see eye to eye on this, but the expansion of quangos has done a lot of harm to our democracy because it’s taken political power away from ministers. Dominic Cummings was v scathing of how ministers are more or less figureheads and actual power lay in the cabinet office and ‘independent’ quangos.


Consultants and consultancy firms are the worst. A lot of time you’re paying them to tell you the sky is blue and when they give recommendations, they never have to deal with the consequences. Charities and the public sector get completely ripped off by them. Quite an ironic story was that a Reform-led council spent £1.4m on consultancy fees for their DOGE operations.

For my sins, it’s an industry I nearly got into, but in my field, people tend to go public sector > consultancy > in house.

Not to completely dismiss Dominic Cummings' criticisms as I'm sure some of them are merited, but he's not exactly an impartial outside observer with no skin in the game when he makes such comments. After all he himself had far too much political influence for someone who wasn't actually elected.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

That isn’t their platform at all. The polling data shared on here shows that they cut through on other issues.

Comments like yours show just how disconnected many people on the left are in relation to understanding why people support Reform.

So what other issues are they cutting through on? As you seem to understand why people support Reform on points other than 'it's all foreigners' fault', why not explain it to us? What are these other points?

I work in area with a very diverse socio-economic population and I have to interact with many members of the community. And I can tell you that the people who support Reform there are ALL in lower socio-economic groups, have low education and do so solely on immigration. No matter what is talked about it always comes down to 'less foreigners will make it better'.

And to be honest I can understand that. They're wrong and are being hoodwinked, but I can understand how they get to that point. But I've not heard a single person mention a multi-faceted argument as to why Reform would improve things.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If you build 200k houses a year and net migration is 350k and above… where are these new arrivals being housed? Again, all housebuilding targets are premised on net migration being 300k and simultaneously, not meeting housing targets and net migration significantly higher than 300k per annum.

Even on point of landlords, QE has created the conditions where companies and individuals can multiply their assets… but this doesn’t explain why prices have exploded to the extent they have. Housing is a resource that is competed for and if it’s scarce, prices will invariably increase. In economic terms, demand far exceeds the supply.

Well for a start we've got far more people buying houses to rent out as an income stream. So you've got even higher demand than you would have if people wanted them just to live in. As it's a business proposition as well they'll also offer a bit more if needed because they will be able to cover that with the rents they charge. As you say demand exceeds supply so they have a fair amount of control and there will be someone who will pay the inflated rents.

There are also far more people living separately who would've previously lived together as a family unit. Also increasing numbers of older people meaning housing is not coming onto the market as often as it has done in the past, so whereas before you probably had two generations of a family having/requiring property, now it's three, or even four. So that's double the number of housing per family just due to age. Then factor in people living alone and it's likely that demand is three times higher just from domestic cultural shifts before you even get into immigration.

So for a start lets ban people from owning more than one property and ban any company/organisation from owning residential property. Landlord isn't an occupation this current needs. It's nowhere near enough of course, but reduce demand by taking out a large amount of buyers doing so to make money and prices will drop.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

At this point, I’d rather a government lowers/abolishes the personal allowance rather than increase income tax. It’s been a de facto tax rise for years no, practiced by both Tory and Labour.

This is exactly the thing that this Labour government would, completely slippery people. The electorate will treat it the same way as a tax rise so they’ll get punished in the polls.

So people who have barely any money and can't afford a place to live or food to eat should get taxed?

For me, the PA is there (or at least should be there) to cover the basics. You should be able to afford somewhere to live, be able to keep it warm and feed yourself before you pay any tax.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Agreed and particularly on energy costs. One of the fundamental problems with the OBR is that is inherently biased against any tax cuts. Removing 5% VAT from energy bills would technically mean less revenue, but there's a multiplier effect when people will spend cash elsewhere, probably on 20% VAT goods.

Longer term, I'd like to see VAT be reduced to 15% and in other areas like hospitality, VAT reduced to 7.5-10%. One of the striking things about being in Portugal is that their VAT on food in restaurants is 7.5%. If that were the case in the UK, people would be more willing to go out more.

The OBR is something that should probably be scrapped imo, it's not even an accurate forecaster.

But if you did get rid of VAT on energy you can almost guarantee those companies will hike prices so bills don't actually come down. The fact they're making obscene amounts of profit already tells you they could make the cost of energy cheaper, they're choosing not to. They'd rather put that money in the pockets of their rich shareholders than in the pockets of their stretched customers.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

BBC burying their Trump apology deep in their website.

Impartial etc though.

And why should they?

When Trump tells lies and told to apologise, he just doesn't do it and attacks whoever it was telling him to apologise.

Trump doesn't have even 1% of the integrity and impartiality of the BBC.

 

[fernandopartridge]

BBC burying their Trump apology deep in their website.

Impartial etc though.

It's hardly headline news is it, who cares?

 

[chiefdave]

BBC burying their Trump apology deep in their website.

would it not just be on the corrections and clarification?

 

[mmttww]

Just make the personal allowance whatever the Living Wage is. If that's the min. for a decent standard of living, leave those earnings alone and sort income tax out after that.

 

[chiefdave]

There are also far more people living separately who would've previously lived together as a family unit. Also increasing numbers of older people meaning housing is not coming onto the market as often as it has done in the past, so whereas before you probably had two generations of a family having/requiring property, now it's three, or even four.

I live alone but have a 2 bed terrace. The one and only reason for that is there's no other options in the area I wanted to live as I needed to be close to my aging parents.

My Mum lives alone in a 3 bed place since my Dad moved in to the care home. Absolutely no reason for her to, and its unmanageable which means a lot of work for me, but she won't consider moving because again in the area she wants to live there's no other options. I would estimate anything up to 50% of the area she lives in is pensioners who live alone.

Even without any increase in the overall population numbers things like this, and people living longer, is going to massively add to the demand for housing.