Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I could definitely David Lammy coming out with something like this.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
How's it gone over in Argentina?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Pretty well I’d say.
Argentina elections: Javier Milei and his 'chainsaw' austerity win big - BBC News
Milei's radical spending cuts have won favour with Donald Trump, but also attracted widespread criticism.
www.bbc.com
Inflation was 211% when Milei entered office, it’s now 1.5%.
Their economic growth figures are projected to be 5.2% in 2025. Poverty did peak as but is decreasing significantly over the last year.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Overlooking that Trump held $40 billion over the Argentinian electorate's head then.Pretty well I’d say.
Argentina elections: Javier Milei and his 'chainsaw' austerity win big - BBC News
Milei's radical spending cuts have won favour with Donald Trump, but also attracted widespread criticism.
Inflation was 211% when Milei entered office, it’s now 1.5%.
Their economic growth figures are projected to be 5.2% in 2025. Poverty did peak as but is decreasing significantly over the last year.
Or Jim Capaldi who I've just found out was the drummer in Traffic,which I should have guessed but didn't, knowing him from his solo work in possibly 80's
That's awful if we have a weevil problem infesting.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
All roads lead to Trump…
The has got inflation down from 221% to 1.5% and despite “chainsaw” austerity, they’re growing at 5.2%. The turnaround is impressive whichever way you look it.
If it’s sustainable, and there’s good reasons to question that in the long term, Argentina could quickly become a model to follow.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yeah I mean all he did was fire tens of thousands of people, gut public services and so on...and we'll ignore Trump bribing a country to keep his mate in power.
They still get to sell them to China too, soya beans that is,at the possible expense of American farmers who may or may not be happy about things.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
A good point. Trump has betrayed his own farmers to prop up mates of his abroad.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Argentina was a genuine basket case, what even is your point in bringing up Milei?
You’ve chosen a terrible example to use here because even poverty of all things is lower now than it was when Milei entered office. The main criticism of Milei’s reforms was the initial spike in poverty and destitution that had reached record levels.
By any metric, Argentina is making progress under Milei. The pertinent question is whether or not it is sustainable or not.
How about the value of the peso?
Is it sustainable for a country to rely on a $20 billion bailout every few years from a friendly US administration?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Isn't the whole premise of financial systems and capitalism that you let the market decide? So by their own rules if they're going to collapse they should be left to do so and whoever remains gets to fight over the scraps. If that system is going to collapse unless it gets bailed out by another one, then it's a system that doesn't work and needs to be put in the bin anyway.
Yes, there would have been pain but long run it'd have been much better for everyone overall. We're now over 20 years on and the same shit is still happening just at an even bigger scale. Until we realise it's doing more harm than good then we've got no chance and we're just slowly marching to our own inevitable demise.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Actually there was a 100% guarantee for retail savings at failed banks during the crisis to prevent panic.
And aren't we taught to not put all our eggs in one basket? So if you had over £30k in one bank, start using another one and spread your risk and guarantee more of your money.
As you're so worked up about the public sector, if the public sector acted in the same reckless manner and needed the same levels of bailouts and support would you be happy for the government to give it them? Or would you be outraged, say they should be refused and demand massive changes to make them more responsible and accountable?
No magic money tree unless you act irresponsibly in a sector that pays out huge dividends and bonuses, then suddenly a whole forest appears.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
What of it? It’s a currency has experienced 8 collapses since the 1950s. The pesos value pre-Milei, collapsed 99% versus the dollar… for context, Syria’s currency dropped 98.5% over the same period. If you really want to go down this route, it makes Argentina’s left wing economic policies look pretty disastrous.
Milei’s big policy idea is abolish Argentina’s central bank and adopt the US Dollar as its currency. Which eliminates the need for a stable Peso because it wouldn’t exist. This is why the Trump administration has stepped in to support Milei’s government.
Anyway, if you want to tell the full story to this episode, the bond markets reacted harshly to significant political defeats to Milei in local elections and the markets worried about his reforms being undone. The peso is a currency that has proven to be inherently unstable.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure you lot use AI on both sides of the argument. I mean I know we have experts on many topics here on SBT, but the inner running and financial details of Argentina are certainly a new one. I consider myself reasonably well read, and I couldn't even tell you who was in power let alone so much parliamentary and economic detail.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You say this with zero irony and it’s quite funny.
Simple question, would you have let Northern Rock and other banks fail?
Interesting question that, obviously at the time we we're, well some of us were arguing if the bailout should Go to the public who held the debt to pay down those dodgy mortgages two bangs for one buck, experience of COVID has made me feel probably against that now, not as some uncaring person but I know probably hold a different position, for me now I see inflation as nothing more than a filter upwards to the top that let's them attain even more assets?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Milei is a case study many fiscal conservatives are watching closely. He’s a thoroughly entertaining politician if anyone takes the time to watch his interviews (with sub titles). Clearly a well read eccentric and he comes out with pretty mental things.
We’ve got to keep an eye on Argentina just incase they feel brave enough for Round 2 in the Falklands…
QE is the real evil here. It’s lead to massive transfers of wealth because cheap credit and inflating asset prices is a toxic mix. Asset rich people can leverage their assets to buy more assets and so on. Meanwhile, if you happened to not have assets during this boom in prices, the price of admission is ridiculous.
Most ordinary Brits are now spending about 50% of their income on managing a household bills. This is historically unprecedented and means that modest increases in interest rates to say, 7-8% would be catastrophic for many people.