Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

[duffer]

I liked it at 17.5% as I could still calculate it in my head and everyone thinks it's some kind of wizardry. Any halfwit can calculate 20%

Indeed, though ask people what you get if you take 20% off £100, and then put 20% back on the remaining amount, and you'll get some different answers.

Anyway, as an aspiring professional footballer (surely it's not too late!), I always give 110%, boss.

 

---

[shmmeee]

The one thing I expect from socialists is for them to pay the right amount tax because they lecture us on the costs of people not paying enough tax…

It just so happens Rayner’s political career is built on taxing the 1% more.

And she is paying the right amount of tax. She got advice. Paid the amount she was told. Got told the advice was wrong. Got new advice. Paid the new amount.

At no point has she tried to avoid tax. Read the statement and tell me at what point exactly you think she intentionally avoided tax.

As I said anyone who has had kids through divorce knows the question of “what’s your primary address” isn’t simple and consistent especially with a nesting arrangement like she had.

 

[Grendel]

And she is paying the right amount of tax. She got advice. Paid the amount she was told. Got told the advice was wrong. Got new advice. Paid the new amount.

At no point has she tried to avoid tax. Read the statement and tell me at what point exactly you think she intentionally avoided tax.

As I said anyone who has had kids through divorce knows the question of “what’s your primary address” isn’t simple and consistent especially with a nesting arrangement like she had.

Of course she tried to avoid tax.

it’s nothing to do with primary address it’s if this is a second home.

Putting a property into a form of discretionary trust it itself is odd. It’s pretty obvious it was created with the intention of avoiding tax on a second property by claiming she doesn’t own the other one.

She then withdrew £165,000 out the trust to pay on the second home. So by definition she has BIK on the property as she has power of withdrawal. Her ex spouse clearly has as well so they have BIK on it. There is no way on earth a discussion when setting this trust up wasn’t had regarding tax implications if either trustee purchased another property. No way.

So it’s no different than people who form such trusts to avoid IHT - something Reeves is committed to stopping.

It’s a tax avoidance strategy - her nesting arrangements have nothing to do with it. The minute she extracted money from the trust while remaining a trustee shows it as such.

I’m as I’ve said sure her PR team said she was paying double council tax on the Brighton home so by every definition it’s a second home

 

[Captain Dart]

 

[StrettoBoy]

When your own words come back to haunt you:

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course she tried to avoid tax.

it’s nothing to do with primary address it’s if this is a second home.

Putting a property into a form of discretionary trust it itself is odd. It’s pretty obvious it was created with the intention of avoiding tax on a second property by claiming she doesn’t own the other one.

She then withdrew £165,000 out the trust to pay on the second home. So by definition she has BIK on the property as she has power of withdrawal. Her ex spouse clearly has as well so they have BIK on it. There is no way on earth a discussion when setting this trust up wasn’t had regarding tax implications if either trustee purchased another property. No way.

So it’s no different than people who form such trusts to avoid IHT - something Reeves is committed to stopping.

It’s a tax avoidance strategy - her nesting arrangements have nothing to do with it. The minute she extracted money from the trust while remaining a trustee shows it as such.

I’m as I’ve said sure her PR team said she was paying double council tax on the Brighton home so by every definition it’s a second home

It’s Hove, actually.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And she is paying the right amount of tax. She got advice. Paid the amount she was told. Got told the advice was wrong. Got new advice. Paid the new amount.

At no point has she tried to avoid tax. Read the statement and tell me at what point exactly you think she intentionally avoided tax.

As I said anyone who has had kids through divorce knows the question of “what’s your primary address” isn’t simple and consistent especially with a nesting arrangement like she had.

Was she wrong to criticise Jeremy Hunt for saving on stamp duty using a tax ‘loophole?’

Or calling for Nadhim Zahawi to resign over a ‘tax error’ when chancellor?

Angela Rayner did both so why should she be forgiven when she did not afford her opponents the same courtesy?

I’m sure both Hunt and Zahawi sought advice to reduce their tax liabilities. So did Angela Rayner but she masquerades as a ‘working class hero’ who wants to increase the tax burden on everyone but her. Again, she was investigated in 2024 over a CTG of selling a second property and she got off on a technicality. In government, the scrutiny is harsher and she got caught out this time.

If Angela Rayner wanted to scrap stamp duty, I’d be far more sympathetic. She doesn’t and her government is mulling levying CTG on family homes, applying NI to rental income and reducing the thresholds stamp duty is paid.

To echo Rayner’s favourite phrase, it’s one rule for them, one rule for us.

 

[PVA]

I think the fact that many people are more outraged by Rayner being hypocritical than they were by Matt Hancock giving his pal 40 million quid goes a long way to explaining the state of the country.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think the fact that many people are more outraged by Rayner being hypocritical than they were by Matt Hancock giving his pal 40 million quid goes a long way to explaining the state of the country.

Funnily enough, Angela Rayner was outraged enough to call for him to resign…

Anyone involved in a scandal of this nature will get the heat. Rayner is no different and accusations of sexism or classism will wash.

 

[PVA]

Funnily enough, Angela Rayner was outraged enough to call for him to resign…

Anyone involved in a scandal of this nature will get the heat. Rayner is no different and accusations of sexism or classism will wash.

I haven't said otherwise, I expect she will resign too.

My point was more people seem more angry about this than they did about Hancock and pals siphoning off millions of pounds to their mates.

In fact more people got more angry about Keir Starmer getting some new glasses than they did about Hancock

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I haven't said otherwise, I expect she will resign too.

My point was more people seem more angry about this than they did about Hancock and pals siphoning off millions of pounds to their mates.

In fact more people got more angry about Keir Starmer getting some new glasses than they did about Hancock

The whole 'Beer Korma' nonsense was an attempt at false equivalence of violating Covid restrictions.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I haven't said otherwise, I expect she will resign too.

My point was more people seem more angry about this than they did about Hancock and pals siphoning off millions of pounds to their mates.

In fact more people got more angry about Keir Starmer getting some new glasses than they did about Hancock

People who parade as holier than thou will get criticised and publicly censured the most. It’s basic human nature.

Angela Rayner has publicly attacked every one of all political colours, there’s even a clip of her criticising Sturgeon for ‘incompetence’ over COVID WhatsApp messages (rightfully btw). So she’s comfortable dishing it out and now she has to take it now Labour are in power.

Matt Hancock ended up resigning over his affair so the public outrage led to his downfall.

 

[Grendel]

I think the fact that many people are more outraged by Rayner being hypocritical than they were by Matt Hancock giving his pal 40 million quid goes a long way to explaining the state of the country.

Are they?

 

[Grendel]

Mmmm

At least we can all agree on one thing: everybody hates Matt Hancock

Boy George was right. “You’re really going to get it.” A year ago, in the dappled green of the well-lit telly jungle, the lead singer of Culture Club uttered th

www.thetimes.com

 

[Captain Dart]

Mmmm

At least we can all agree on one thing: everybody hates Matt Hancock

Boy George was right. “You’re really going to get it.” A year ago, in the dappled green of the well-lit telly jungle, the lead singer of Culture Club uttered th

www.thetimes.com

Mind you in clown state Britain Boy George keeps having a go at JK Rowling for her views on womens spaces so she counters by pointing out he got convicted for chaining a male prostitute to a radiator.

 

[fatso]

Mind you in clown state Britain Boy George keeps having a go at JK Rowling for her views on womens spaces so she counters by pointing out he got convicted for chaining a male prostitute to a radiator.

That's a slam dunk if ever there was one.


Although I doubt if Boy George has ever violated a woman's private space!

 

[Grendel]

I don’t even mind Rayner but there’s no going back if you make a stand on demanding others resign for tax indiscretion. There’s no sliding scale either - you try and avoid it or you don’t.

It’s no different to Dianne Abbott and the private school shambles. She dug herself deeper and deeper and ended up in ridicule

 

[Grendel]

Ooops

Angela Rayner used family conveyancing firm to buy tax row flat

Exclusive: Land Registry documents show deputy prime minister used high street company for £800,000 transaction

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don’t even mind Rayner but there’s no going back if you make a stand on demanding others resign for tax indiscretion. There’s no sliding scale either - you try and avoid it or you don’t.

It’s no different to Dianne Abbott and the private school shambles. She dug herself deeper and deeper and ended up in ridicule

Exactly. A basic stamp duty calculator would have told her she owed £70,000. If she was altruistic and consistent in her beliefs, she’d have paid it in full as a duty to the state. After all, she’s on record saying ‘tax avoidance costs lives’ and she’s already been accused of avoiding CTG on a property.

Even if Rayner’s tax miscalculation was genuine, what about Zahawi? Who HMRC concluded his tax error was ‘careless, not deliberate’.

No doubt if a Tory housing minister and Deputy PM was guilty of the same circumstances, Angela Rayner would be on every TV channel calling for blood.

On policy, Rayner wants to increase taxes across the board so why should people let her off the hook when she avoids tax?

 

[wingy]

Watched the coverage on lunchtime news some of her colleagues doing the rounds, Rachel reeves was not convincing, stuttering over every word!

 

[rob9872]

 

[SIR ERNIE]

The greatest outcome here is that the UK no longer has to dread the prospect of this individual ever becoming PM.

 

[shmmeee]

Was she wrong to criticise Jeremy Hunt for saving on stamp duty using a tax ‘loophole?’

Or calling for Nadhim Zahawi to resign over a ‘tax error’ when chancellor?

Angela Rayner did both so why should she be forgiven when she did not afford her opponents the same courtesy?

I’m sure both Hunt and Zahawi sought advice to reduce their tax liabilities. So did Angela Rayner but she masquerades as a ‘working class hero’ who wants to increase the tax burden on everyone but her. Again, she was investigated in 2024 over a CTG of selling a second property and she got off on a technicality. In government, the scrutiny is harsher and she got caught out this time.

If Angela Rayner wanted to scrap stamp duty, I’d be far more sympathetic. She doesn’t and her government is mulling levying CTG on family homes, applying NI to rental income and reducing the thresholds stamp duty is paid.

To echo Rayner’s favourite phrase, it’s one rule for them, one rule for us.

Again Zahawi avoided paying tax on tens of millions over years by setting up off shore companies and threatening anyone who investigated until the HMRC caught up with him. Rayner took advice on a non-standard living situation paid what she was told and when told that was wrong paid some more. Only a simpleton or someone not arguing in good faith would pretend they’re the same.

You lot on the right always try this because you think secretly the left wants less taxes as well and are being hypocrites so you’ll twist anything to fit that narrative but any honest reading just doesn’t add up like that here. Rayner has not tried to avoid tax on anything like the scale the average Tory did. You just don’t like her.

 

[shmmeee]

The greatest outcome here is that the UK no longer has to dread the prospect of this individual ever becoming PM.

Do you understand literally anything about how this country works or is it all just a jumble of US politics tweets in there?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Again Zahawi avoided paying tax on tens of millions over years by setting up off shore companies and threatening anyone who investigated until the HMRC caught up with him. Rayner took advice on a non-standard living situation paid what she was told and when told that was wrong paid some more. Only a simpleton or someone not arguing in good faith would pretend they’re the same.

You lot on the right always try this because you think secretly the left wants less taxes as well and are being hypocrites so you’ll twist anything to fit that narrative but any honest reading just doesn’t add up like that here. Rayner has not tried to avoid tax on anything like the scale the average Tory did. You just don’t like her.

I respect your commitment to party politics, you can’t genuinely believe there’s no double standard here.

Would you have the same sympathy for a Tory in the same situation, I suspect not.

With Zahawi, he also made ‘an error’ that was ‘careless, not deliberate’ despite tax advice he would have received, just like Rayner. Tax law is robust and avoidance whether accidental or deliberate is irrelevant, the bottom line is that it’s a debt you owe to HMRC.

The Torygraph have dropped an exclusive where Rayner’s solicitors have denied giving her tax advice and the information she provided was sued for the stamp duty calculation. This ‘bad advice’ argument seems to be disproved.

 

[StrettoBoy]

The Torygraph have dropped an exclusive where Rayner’s solicitors have denied giving her tax advice. This ‘bad advice’ argument seems to be disproved.

They weren't solicitors.

Raynor used a cheap, backstreet firm of Licensed Conveyancers.

 

[Captain Dart]

Again Zahawi avoided paying tax on tens of millions over years by setting up off shore companies and threatening anyone who investigated until the HMRC caught up with him. Rayner took advice on a non-standard living situation paid what she was told and when told that was wrong paid some more. Only a simpleton or someone not arguing in good faith would pretend they’re the same.

You lot on the right always try this because you think secretly the left wants less taxes as well and are being hypocrites so you’ll twist anything to fit that narrative but any honest reading just doesn’t add up like that here. Rayner has not tried to avoid tax on anything like the scale the average Tory did. You just don’t like her.

This isn't about Zahawi.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

@shmmeee Ed Balls of all people has just called Rayner a hypocrite and that she should resign…

It’s not looking good brav.

 

[StrettoBoy]

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This isn't about Zahawi.

People are only holding Angela Rayner to her own standards and her mates in government and the media (Beth Rigby) are upset about it.

Avoiding £40,000 in stamp duty is more than the median worker’s annual salary and she has the temerity to cosplay as a working class hero? She is part of ‘the few’ she constantly rallies against.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

View attachment 45849

The Tory part chairman is claiming that gov.uk provides clear guidance that the full second home stamp duty is payable if ‘you/your child’ owns a property even via a trust. She took her name off the deed fairly recently which raised eyebrows before this story broke. Why? It feels dodgy because it most certainly is.

The ‘bad advice’ excuse is embarrassing and the reality might be much worse: that she didn’t seek any legal advice. She claimed she received legal advice from the conveyancer and that was a lie.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Again Zahawi avoided paying tax on tens of millions over years by setting up off shore companies and threatening anyone who investigated until the HMRC caught up with him. Rayner took advice on a non-standard living situation paid what she was told and when told that was wrong paid some more. Only a simpleton or someone not arguing in good faith would pretend they’re the same.

You lot on the right always try this because you think secretly the left wants less taxes as well and are being hypocrites so you’ll twist anything to fit that narrative but any honest reading just doesn’t add up like that here. Rayner has not tried to avoid tax on anything like the scale the average Tory did. You just don’t like her.

Just mention £20bn black hole and you win the argument.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Just mention £20bn black hole and you win the argument.

That’s now £50bn after one year of Labour and it’s all because of the Tories…

 

[StrettoBoy]

The Tory part chairman is claiming that gov.uk provides clear guidance that the full second home stamp duty is payable if ‘you/your child’ owns a property even via a trust. She took her name off the deed fairly recently which raised eyebrows before this story broke. Why? It feels dodgy because it most certainly is.

The ‘bad advice’ excuse is embarrassing and the reality might be much worse: that she didn’t seek any legal advice. She claimed she received legal advice from the conveyancer and that was a lie.

I told my wife the other day what I thought had happened and it is looking increasingly likely that I was correct.

I reckon the Licensed Conveyancers will have completed the SDLT return and in doing so will have asked AR if she owned any other properties and she told them that she didn't. That could have been a deliberate attempt to evade tax, which is fraud, or a stupid error.

 

[SBAndy]

I told my wife the other day what I thought had happened and it is looking increasingly likely that I was correct.

I reckon the Licensed Conveyancers will have completed the SDLT return and in doing so will have asked AR if she owned any other properties and she told them that she didn't. That could have been a deliberate attempt to evade tax, which is fraud, or a stupid error.

Or, quite simply, the truth in a practical sense. She didn’t own another property. Her child’s trust did. Policitian not being across the minutiae of tax policy isn’t a fun story tho.