Do you want to discuss boring politics? (49 Viewers)

[Nick]

None of mine were “planned” she got pregnant and we decided to keep them. That’s pretty normal throughout history. That’s my entire point, the change started with the pill enabling people to “plan” and once they start overthinking it they convince themselves that they, an average earner in one of the richest economies in history, are too poor to have kids, or their partner isn’t perfect, or they need to work on their career right now.

Like quitting smoking it’s rare to find the perfect time to have kids. You just have them and life carries on.

Yeah it's pretty sensible to have more control over when you bring a life into the world.

Which again is why it's a bad idea just want to rely on people who will fire as many kids as they can out with no thought about who will pay to bring them up.

 

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[shmmeee]

Yeah it's pretty sensible to have more control over when you bring a life into the world.

Which again is why it's a bad idea just want to rely on people who will fire as many kids as they can out with no thought about who will pay to bring them up.

So sensible it’s causing huge economic and social problems worldwide.

Who will pay for you when you’ve decided it’s “sensible” for the birth rate to drop to where it is?

If you’ve not had at least two kids, you’re sponging off everyone else in retirement. Ideally more than two.

 

[shmmeee]

Kids cost a lot less than OAPs guys.

In fact almost all kids are net revenue positive for the state cos they grow up and pay taxes.

 

[Nick]

So sensible it’s causing huge economic and social problems worldwide.

Who will pay for you when you’ve decided it’s “sensible” for the birth rate to drop to where it is?

If you’ve not had at least two kids, you’re sponging off everyone else in retirement. Ideally more than two.

I'll pay for me.

I doubt I'll retire until I'm about 70 anyway but I'm not sure how I'll be sponging anything.

Have a walk down to wetherspoons today to sponging.

 

[shmmeee]

I'll pay for me.

I doubt I'll retire until I'm about 70 anyway but I'm not sure how I'll be sponging anything.

You planning to reveal your secret to perfect health to the scientific community or keeping it to yourself?

 

[shmmeee]

There is one solution for economies hit by low birth rates who don’t want to raise taxes or magically find a way to encourage more children.

But I don’t think this thread will like it.

 

[Nick]

You planning to reveal your secret to perfect health to the scientific community or keeping it to yourself?

Probably be even harder to get an appointment by then so will probably end up having to go private anyway.

Is it sponging for somebody who has worked for 50 plus years to use the nhs now?

 

[Nick]

There is one solution for economies hit by low birth rates who don’t want to raise taxes or magically find a way to encourage more children.

But I don’t think this thread will like it.

View attachment 44613

Like I said, you have an issue with people who have worked all their life but strangely want to draft people in to fire out kids with no intention of paying for them themselves.

How do you think this works for those kids and their kids when they realise they can just let the tax payer pay for everything?

 

[shmmeee]

Like I said, you have an issue with people who have worked all their life but strangely want to draft people in to fire out kids with no intention of paying for them themselves.

How do you think this works for those kids and their kids when they realise they can just let the tax payer pay for everything?

I think what the evidence shows: that generally those kids grow up and pay taxes that pay for mine and your retirement and keep our taxes lower when working.

You’re completely ass backwards on the economics of this. Because you’re trying to make what you see as a moral issue have some economic justification.

 

[shmmeee]

Probably be even harder to get an appointment by then so will probably end up having to go private anyway.

Is it sponging for somebody who has worked for 50 plus years to use the nhs now?

Why do you think old people cost the state a lot? It’s not cleaning up after all their parties.

 

[Nick]

I think what the evidence shows: that generally those kids grow up and pay taxes that pay for mine and your retirement and keep our taxes lower when working.

You’re completely ass backwards on the economics of this. Because you’re trying to make what you see as a moral issue have some economic justification.

Not really backwards.

Why aren't we all trying to move to the countries with high birth rates in Africa? Is the answer really to draft people in from these countries to just fire loads of kids out here without a care in the world because we will just pay for it all?

 

[Sick Boy]

Not really backwards.

Why aren't we all trying to move to the countries with high birth rates in Africa? Is the answer really to draft people in from these countries to just fire loads of kids out here without a care in the world because we will just pay for it all?

I think he’s saying first and foremost that those already here should just have kids much younger and more often.

 

[shmmeee]

Not really backwards.

Why aren't we all trying to move to the countries with high birth rates in Africa? Is the answer really to draft people in from these countries to just fire loads of kids out here without a care in the world because we will just pay for it all?

If you’ve got a better one apply to 1 Nobel Prize Way, Sweden for your prize.

 

[Nick]

I think he’s saying first and foremost that those already here should just have kids much younger and more often.

I get that but who's paying for them?

It's harder for people to buy houses to live in with their kids, for starters. Childcare is expensive etc etc.

People are more aware of all of this nowadays.

 

[Nick]

If you’ve got a better one apply to 1 Nobel Prize Way, Sweden for your prize.

Nah, what we should do is look at countries like Somalia and just replicate it here.

It would be interesting to see if theres any stats on people from countries with high birth rates and how they're getting on in the UK. How many are working, how many live in funded houses, crime rates etc.

 

[shmmeee]

I think he’s saying first and foremost that those already here should just have kids much younger and more often.

Not sure age matter much other than the fact that you’re more likely to become infertile but yeah. We need a way to sort out the inverted population pyramid and that’s either make the bottom bigger with births, make the middle bigger with immigration or get everyone in the middle paying a whole lot more than they’re used to to make up for the loss.

 

[shmmeee]

Nah, what we should do is look at countries like Somalia and just replicate it here.

It would be interesting to see if theres any stats on people from countries with high birth rates and how they're getting on in the UK. How many are working, how many live in funded houses etc.

Recent immigrants tend to start at similar family sizes and within a generation or two are roughly at the UK average. That’s assimilation for you.

I think you wildly overestimate how many people are living off the state Nick I’ll be honest. It’s not every single immigrant and everyone without a degree.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Not sure age matter much other than the fact that you’re more likely to become infertile but yeah. We need a way to sort out the inverted population pyramid and that’s either make the bottom bigger with births, make the middle bigger with immigration or get everyone in the middle paying a whole lot more than they’re used to to make up for the loss.

Im more likely to adopt. There are shit loads of kids in care at the moment and its costing a bomb.

 

[Nick]

Recent immigrants tend to start at similar family sizes and within a generation or two are roughly at the UK average. That’s assimilation for you.

I think you wildly overestimate how many people are living off the state Nick I’ll be honest. It’s not every single immigrant and everyone without a degree.

I haven't said anything about having a degree or not.

My point is about it you want to import people from countries with high birth rates to fire kids out and how are they getting on the UK?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

None of mine were “planned” she got pregnant and we decided to keep them. That’s pretty normal throughout history. That’s my entire point, the change started with the pill enabling people to “plan” and once they start overthinking it they convince themselves that they, an average earner in one of the richest economies in history, are too poor to have kids, or their partner isn’t perfect, or they need to work on their career right now.

Like quitting smoking it’s rare to find the perfect time to have kids. You just have them and life carries on.

What you find is that being on the pill is easy, getting an abortion isn’t and the maths changes massively when you’re deciding to get rid compared to deciding to stop taking the pill, even thought the question “am I ready to have kids now?” Is the same.

Any woman who’s a teacher knows how much harder it is to progress in a school once you get pregnant, go on mat leave, return part time and then likely have to stay part time for a good while yet. That’s in part why we waited until the Mrs had got a bit up the ladder.

It’s not imagined, it’s the reality of women not being able to go back to work full time more quickly because of childcare.

 

[mmttww]

leave your house and meet some poor people.

I'll leave the poverty tourism for someone else and sidestep you making some pretty wild assumptions about who I am, upbringing etc. If your sample size for your position on this stuff is two people you know, that's a shaky argument.

I've not said anything there isn't evidence to support and I'm not running anyone down. You asked a question, I put fwd some possible answers. You've been a patronising pr*ck about it since and seem a bit close minded on this one.

 

[shmmeee]

I haven't said anything about having a degree or not.

My point is about it you want to import people from countries with high birth rates to fire kids out and how are they getting on the UK?

I want everyone to pay more taxes. You don’t want that. Grrrr taxes.

OK I want everyone to have more kids to the tax burden is shared more. You don’t want that. Grrr benefits.

OK I want us to accept we’ll have to bring working age immigrants in to share the tax burden. You don’t want that. Grrr immigrants.

OK we’ll have to cut pensioner benefits. Let’s start with giving money to the richest pensioners. You don’t want that. Grr Kier Starmer.

See the problem?

 

[shmmeee]

Any woman who’s a teacher knows how much harder it is to progress in a school once you get pregnant, go on mat leave, return part time and then likely have to stay part time for a good while yet. That’s in part why we waited until the Mrs had got a bit up the ladder.

It’s not imagined, it’s the reality of women not being able to go back to work full time more quickly because of childcare.

I dunno my ex went from class teacher to ass head as a single mum working part time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I dunno my ex went from class teacher to ass head as a single mum working part time.

Probably an exception to the rule. The only women I’ve known to make SMT have grown up or older teenage children.

 

[Captain Dart]

Old enough to work, old enough to vote

But not to drink alcohol, smoke, buy knives or firearms, buy land or property, place bets, buy fireworks, join the police or fire service, view or buy X rated films, serve on a jury, be hypnotised, buy cigarettes, donate blood, get a tattoo or serve on a jury.

 

[mmttww]

be hypnotised...

Keir Stalin at it again.

 

[chiefdave]

You planning to reveal your secret to perfect health to the scientific community or keeping it to yourself?

That's a good plan until it isn't. My experience, both with myself and with my Dad, is that once you hit a certain age once one health issue comes along others aren't far behind.

We've got a generation approaching retirement age who won't get much by the way of inheritance as it will have all gone on their parents care costs, many without enough in their pension pot, kids needing help with uni & getting on the housing ladder, a crumbling NHS, a disaster of a care system. Hard not to see a huge problem rapidly approaching.

 

[chiefdave]

So which is it? Is having kids expensive and unaffordable or does it lead to a life of luxury paid for by the state?

 

[Marty]

Infinite Somalians for everyone.

 

[shmmeee]

Infinite Somalians for everyone.

Babies for some Somalians for others?

 

[shmmeee]

But not to drink alcohol, smoke, buy knives or firearms, buy land or property, place bets, buy fireworks, join the police or fire service, view or buy X rated films, serve on a jury, be hypnotised, buy cigarettes, donate blood, get a tattoo or serve on a jury.

Old enough to do all that but can’t get insurance through Saga or claim the state pension or rent a van

All the arguments are silly aren’t they really? But as we need an age let’s just make it 18 when you’re an adult and the government considers you an autonomous being.

 

[shmmeee]

I'll leave the poverty tourism for someone else and sidestep you making some pretty wild assumptions about who I am, upbringing etc. If your sample size for your position on this stuff is two people you know, that's a shaky argument.

I've not said anything there isn't evidence to support and I'm not running anyone down. You asked a question, I put fwd some possible answers. You've been a patronising pr*ck about it since and seem a bit close minded on this one.

Im saying that just calling everyone who has kids at a sustainable rate stupid is a pretty wild generalisation.

If choice and education lead to a species that can’t sustain itself what do you do about that?

People were telling me it’s 100% about finances. I only brought up poorer people having more kids and poorer countries having more kids as a reposte to that. Being wealthier clearly makes you have fewer kids on average.

The response was that well they’re all stupid and religious. Which frankly I find pretty fucking appalling considering it’s come from the progressive side of this thread. Are you really so smart if you end up extinct?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Im saying that just calling everyone who has kids at a sustainable rate stupid is a pretty wild generalisation.

If choice and education lead to a species that can’t sustain itself what do you do about that?

People were telling me it’s 100% about finances. I only brought up poorer people having more kids and poorer countries having more kids as a reposte to that. Being wealthier clearly makes you have fewer kids on average.

The response was that well they’re all stupid and religious. Which frankly I find pretty fucking appalling considering it’s come from the progressive side of this thread. Are you really so smart if you end up extinct?

extinction lol

 

[mmttww]

The response was that well they’re all stupid and religious. Which frankly I find pretty fucking appalling considering it’s come from the progressive side of this thread.

I didn't say anything close to that and didn't mention religion. I get you're close to the subject and can't be perfect when you want to reply to a bunch of posts but chucking generalisations or assumptions back at people ain't the way.

 

[Nick]

So which is it? Is having kids expensive and unaffordable or does it lead to a life of luxury paid for by the state?

Think you have completely missed the point and what's been said

It's not expensive if people let others take care of the cost.

You will be saying people don't do that next.