Do you want to discuss boring politics? (82 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Tax turnover and you will be taxing genuine loss-making companies.

As a retired tax lawyer I am well aware of some of the wheezes used to massage profits. HMRC need to get some top brains on board and stamp it out to a greater degree than they presently seem capable of.

Trouble with those top brains is they do do the work. Then almost immediately get hired by the companies to tell them where they've left the loopholes.

Isn't the whole point of private sector that loss making businesses go under as they have no point existing? Survival of the fittest. So yes, let's tax them. If they're not good enough to make money I'm not feeling sorry for them.

Besides, a decent company should be allowing for tax in their calculations when setting their prices, as ultimately it is just another cost passed onto the consumer. This would allow them to do so much easier. Instead of having to try and guess what this magical profit on a product is they just take the price and add one or two percent on. Easy. Plus I said there would be an allowance, so poorly performing businesses have some leeway. And it stops the huge number of companies that exist solely to make a loss for tax purposes.

Society is full of rules placed on the vast majority of us because of a few that will be dickheads (as football fans we should know that better than most). And that's acceptable because the overall outcome is much better, as annoying as it maybe for the rest of us. Only in this case most will act as much of a dickhead as the rules will allow them to and costs hundreds of billions of pounds either directly or indirectly. So lets not let them act like dickheads and if they don't like it let them fuck off and be replaced by others that won't be dickheads. Let's not forget the UK is still a significant and potentially lucrative place to trade. If they don't want to follow the rules we set then they lose access to that market.

The point is profit doesn't exist. You may as well tax thoughts as they have as much basis in the real world.

As I said, humans aren't taxed that way and they are sentient, living creatures with actual needs to stay alive. So one or the other is wrong. Now if you want to say the way humans are taxed is wrong and they should be taxed after expenses then that's fine, you're entitled to that opinion, although it would lead to a much, much worse society. But you cannot say having one system for us and one for companies is fair. The whole idea of companies is a scam designed by rich people to avoid liability and responsibility and the tax rules are an extension of that.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

10,000 millionaires left the country last year and 16,500 are predicted to do so this year. It's what you would expect and what has happened in the past.

It's why Polly Toynbee has suggested an exit tax to force people to stay, which is a despicable approach. Reeves is apparently thinking of backtracking on her non-domiciled changes because, as with VAT on school fees and CGT, the predictions of behavioural change were wrong.

How many millionaires depart in an average year? How many of those departing are economically active?

 

[skybluetony176]

How many millionaires depart in an average year? How many of those departing are economically active?

The majority had non dom status and left because of the ending of our almost unique history of having non dom status. So the answer to your question is barely any were economically active, certainly not to the extent that there wealth would have you believe that they could be. There’s also the point that if we’d never had non dom status in the first place they’d probably already have left. Then there’s those that very publicly did it as a political football.

Then there’s the source of the 10k figure. People should do some research on Henley and partners before taking their word as gospel.

People also need to put it in perspective. There’s over 3 million recognised millionaires in the UK. Use of the word exodus has been highly exaggerated to say the least.

 

[tisza]

The majority had non dom status and left because of the ending of our almost unique history of having non dom status. So the answer to your question is barely any were economically active, certainly not to the extent that there wealth would have you believe that they could be. There’s also the point that if we’d never had non dom status in the first place they’d probably already have left. Then there’s those that very publicly did it as a political football.

Then there’s the source of the 10k figure. People should do some research on Henley and partners before taking their word as gospel.

People also need to put it in perspective. There’s over 3 million recognised millionaires in the UK. Use of the word exodus has been highly exaggerated to say the least.

UBS estimates that 3m figure will fall by 500K by 2028.(that's the 3 million stat that most people use). Also the figure is for $ millionaires so that's about 730k GBP - a fairly significant difference.
Henley refers to liquid millionaires rather than paper millionaires (the 3m).

 

[shmmeee]

UBS estimates that 3m figure will fall by 500K by 2028.(that's the 3 million stat that most people use). Also the figure is for $ millionaires so that's about 730k GBP - a fairly significant difference.
Henley refers to liquid millionaires rather than paper millionaires (the 3m).

335,000 people are estimated to have died in ten years because of tax cuts. Ya know, just for some balance.

 

[chiefdave]

Nothing to see here

Russia's Investigative Committee says former Russian transport minister Roman Starovoit has been found dead, apparently with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

He was dismissed earlier on Monday by President Vladimir Putin.

or here, just something thats very convenient for several high profile and powerful people. All the Epstein files have magically disappear but good news, the CCTV footage they didn't have because the cameras weren't working has miraculously appeared so they can declare his death a suicide.

 

[shmmeee]

Nothing to see here

or here, just something thats very convenient for several high profile and powerful people. All the Epstein files have magically disappear but good news, the CCTV footage they didn't have because the cameras weren't working has miraculously appeared so they can declare his death a suicide.

Genuinely if this is true it’s the funniest outcome. Get elected by conspiracy theorists and you debunk a conspiracy.

Surely not though. Are we saying Maxwell is in prison for grooming girls for no one?

 

[tisza]

Non-disclosure agreements gagging workers to be banned

The government plans to change the law to void confidentiality agreements that silence staff.

www.bbc.com

It's a start but should be expanded to covering any illegal behaviour - criminal or civil. Not just the workplace.

 

[chiefdave]

Non-disclosure agreements gagging workers to be banned

The government plans to change the law to void confidentiality agreements that silence staff.

www.bbc.com

It's a start but should be expanded to covering any illegal behaviour - criminal or civil. Not just the workplace.

My ex went through this at the NHS. The service she worked in had huge cuts made in Cameron's 'not a top down reorganisation'. The staff actually providing the service made warning after warning to various tiers of management that the cuts would be dangerous, that the service would not be able to run effectively and that, as they were working with people who were potentially violent offenders, there would potentially be some fairly serious outcomes.

The response was that anyone talking to the media, even anonymously, would be fired.

Then when the inevitable happened the blame was placed on those same front line workers, well the ones that were left as the vast majority were head hunted by organisations overseas who appreciated how successful their work had been.

 

[chiefdave]

What is the obsession with rebranding everything. They've brought back the British Rail signage, because it resonates with people, yet have decided to rebrand as Great British Rail.

Now they are pumping money into Sure Start, a good thing obviously, but rather than shout about a hugely successful project implemented by Labour, cut by the Tories having new funding they're rebranded it Best Start Family Hubs as if its a totally new thing.

 

[shmmeee]

What is the obsession with rebranding everything. They've brought back the British Rail signage, because it resonates with people, yet have decided to rebrand as Great British Rail.

Now they are pumping money into Sure Start, a good thing obviously, but rather than shout about a hugely successful project implemented by Labour, cut by the Tories having new funding they're rebranded it Best Start Family Hubs as if its a totally new thing.

Political advisors must be the least imaginative people ever, they always want their own name for “legacy” then call it something like Best Start or Green New Deal. Like they’ve all come straight from Aldi’s branding team.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Everything is a "hub", just fucking tedious the whole thing isn't it. So much money wasted on badging the provision rather than the provision itself.

Political advisors must be the least imaginative people ever, they always want their own name for “legacy” then call it something like Best Start or Green New Deal. Like they’ve all come straight from Aldi’s branding team.

 

[shmmeee]

Everything is a "hub", just fucking tedious the whole thing isn't it. So much money wasted on badging the provision rather than the provision itself.

Cos I’m a massive fucking loser I talk to ChatGPT about urban planning a fair bit and one thing I’ve noticed is it’s obsessed with fucking hubs. Not sure which came first the think tank or the chatbot but there’s an eerie similarity in lack of original thought.

 

[chiefdave]

At least 13 postmasters may have taken their own lives after being accused of wrongdoing during the Horizon IT scandal, a public inquiry has found

You'd like to think those involved would be deeply disturbed by this but from the way they've acted to date I very much doubt it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Cos I’m a massive fucking loser I talk to ChatGPT about urban planning a fair bit and one thing I’ve noticed is it’s obsessed with fucking hubs. Not sure which came first the think tank or the chatbot but there’s an eerie similarity in lack of original thought.

Probably because most of the users are searching for one specific 'hub'

 

[fernandopartridge]

You'd like to think those involved would be deeply disturbed by this but from the way they've acted to date I very much doubt it.

The scandal has gone on that long that all three main parties are heavily implicated, hence fuck all

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting the coverage Kneecap and Bob Vylan get for antisemitism but the complete silence when the richest man in the world and owner of one of the the largest media sites on the planet has its chatbot turn full /pol/

 

[Grendel]

Bizarre interview with some guy representing the junior doctor union.

Will be striking and asking for another 22% as the new government gave them what they wanted and so will do again and it’s nice weather to do it

 

[Captain Dart]

Interesting the coverage Kneecap and Bob Vylan get for antisemitism but the complete silence when the richest man in the world and owner of one of the the largest media sites on the planet has its chatbot turn full /pol/

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Grok got exposed for having an NDA with Pfizer to analyse medical data. Emergency changes to plug the unintentional honestly seem to have caused more 'issues'.

AI is still too immature a technology to trust, it lies, is incapable of original thought and tends to exclude any out of the box thought or minority points of view from it's analysis. Not bad for generating memes though.

 

[tisza]

Bizarre interview with some guy representing the junior doctor union.

Will be striking and asking for another 22% as the new government gave them what they wanted and so will do again and it’s nice weather to do it

Not a surprise. This Govt is going to have public sector pay fights for the duration of its tenure.

 

[SBT]

Grok got exposed for having an NDA with Pfizer to analyse medical data. Emergency changes to plug the unintentional honestly seem to have caused more 'issues'.

It seems more likely to me that it’s just making up nonsense.

As for the anti-semitism, it’s truly insane how much anti-semitic (and Islamaphobic, and anti-black) content I get randomly fed on a daily basis, for no good reason. Total mystery as to why that’s started!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Bizarre interview with some guy representing the junior doctor union.

Will be striking and asking for another 22% as the new government gave them what they wanted and so will do again and it’s nice weather to do it

BMA are clowns. These are the same lot that arranged a strike in the lead up to the election (when neither the Tories, nor Labour could do anything about their demands) and I think they’re still battling/questioning the Cass report findings.

 

[shmmeee]

It seems more likely to me that it’s just making up nonsense.

As for the anti-semitism, it’s truly insane how much anti-semitic (and Islamaphobic, and anti-black) content I get randomly fed on a daily basis, for no good reason. Total mystery as to why that’s started!

Ultimately it’s predicting words based on the context given for all the good and bad of that. It’s a very good compression and search mechanism, and capable of far more than we thought we’d be able to do with statistics on language. But talk of it thinking or being biased or whatever is a fundamental misunderstanding of what it’s doing I think.

Back to my original point though, if we’re concerned about this sort of stuff and there’s also people promoting Palestine Action and other proscribed groups on there, as well as numerous examples of illegal content from child porn to terrorism to incitement to racial violence. When does the conversation of banning it come up?

 

[Grendel]

Could be an interesting challenge to old Wes. Bend over once and expect it again.

Resident doctors in England to strike from 25 July

BMA union says it is giving Wes Streeting two weeks to come to the table to negotiate ‘a path to pay restoration’

www.theguardian.com

 

[fernandopartridge]

Starting salary for a junior doctor is £38k, which given the unsocial hours, responsibility, qualification level is just pathetic. Good luck to them.

 

[Nick]

Starting salary for a junior doctor is £38k, which given the unsocial hours, responsibility, qualification level is just pathetic. Good luck to them.

That's the basic, they get paid extra for unsocial hours and have had a rise of about 29% in the last 3 years. They are going to strike because they want another 29% increase.

Fresh out of uni onto £38k then they won't really have the responsibility as they are in their first Foundation Year. I don't think they can even write a prescription unsupervised.

Surely they look at the wage before they start studying? I wanted to be a PE teacher, I looked at what they get paid before I decided to go down that path and study / get into debt and thought fuck that it's not worth it.

Is it really good luck to them?

 

[fernandopartridge]

That's the basic, they get paid extra for unsocial hours and have had a rise of about 29% in the last 3 years. They are going to strike because they want another 29% increase.

Fresh out of uni onto £38k then they won't really have the responsibility as they are in their first Foundation Year. I don't think they can even write a prescription unsupervised.

Surely they look at the wage before they start studying? I wanted to be a PE teacher, I looked at what they get paid before I decided to go down that path and study / get into debt and thought fuck that it's not worth it.

Is it really good luck to them?

Yes it is

 

[Nick]

Yes it is

Fuck it, may as well just get everybody out on strike then. Don't let the Train Drivers or Teachers see.

 

[mmttww]

Fresh out of uni...

or finishing five or six years in medical school with more study to come alongside working on patients. It's not like they're demanding six figures after drinking their way through a BA in Journalism.

 

[Nick]

or finishing five or six years in medical school with more study to come alongside working on patients. It's not like they're demanding six figures after drinking their way through a BA in Journalism.

Yeah and their wages keep going up from then on when they get more experience?

Aren't they going to be about 23-25? (If they started at 18, obviously)

 

[fernandopartridge]

Fuck it, may as well just get everybody out on strike then. Don't let the Train Drivers or Teachers see.

Agreed, general strike needed as pay in the UK is rubbish

 

[wingy]

Yeah and their wages keep going up from then on when they get more experience?

Aren't they going to be about 23-25? (If they started at 18, obviously)

Don't know why they are bothering, gonna get replaced by some AI, don't mind if they do either.

 

[Nick]

Agreed, general strike needed as pay in the UK is rubbish

Let's get it done. May as well give everybody 35%. Same again next year.

 

[Grendel]

or finishing five or six years in medical school with more study to come alongside working on patients. It's not like they're demanding six figures after drinking their way through a BA in Journalism.

Their argument is its to make up for non RPI pay rises since 2008

Its a bonkers argument as they have all agreed to the conditions on employment

The motivation by the guy I saw interviewed today looks to me very political and nothing to do with the actual alleged issue

 

[CCFCSteve]

Their argument is its to make up for non RPI pay rises since 2008

Its a bonkers argument as they have all agreed to the conditions on employment

The motivation by the guy I saw interviewed today looks to me very political and nothing to do with the actual alleged issue

and since 2015, after which im guessing most/all current resident docs would’ve made the decision to study to be a doctor, there’s been a real term pay increase . Oh and don’t mention 23% emp’er pension conts or training costs covered by nhs

No point debating though, we’ve got an endless supply of printed cash and wealth taxes which will solve everything. All will be fine

….just don’t read the latest OBR report