Do you want to discuss boring politics? (33 Viewers)

[Grendel]

and since 2015, after which im guessing most/all current resident docs would’ve made the decision to study to be a doctor, there’s been a real term pay increase . Oh and don’t mention 23% emp’er pension conts or training costs covered by nhs

No point debating though, we’ve got an endless supply of printed cash and wealth taxes which will solve everything. All will be fine

….just don’t read the latest OBR report

When asked why he wanted to be a doctor he said it "looked interesting"

The hilarious bit was when the demented woman from the Daily Express said "one of your members said they are excited to strike"

She was told she cannot really prove that but the Union guy said "oh its true - I said it"

 

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[Nick]

and since 2015, after which im guessing most/all current resident docs would’ve made the decision to study to be a doctor, there’s been a real term pay increase . Oh and don’t mention 23% emp’er pension conts or training costs covered by nhs

No point debating though, we’ve got an endless supply of printed cash and wealth taxes which will solve everything. All will be fine

….just don’t read the latest OBR report

Just need to give everybody loads more money, simples.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Just need to give everybody loads more money, simples.

Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.

 

[Nick]

When asked why he wanted to be a doctor he said it "looked interesting"

The hilarious bit was when the demented woman from the Daily Express said "one of your members said they are excited to strike"

She was told she cannot really prove that but the Union guy said "oh its true - I said it"

Weren't there any conditions when the last 2 pay rises were agreed?

I mean what's to stop it happening every couple of years?

 

[Grendel]

Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.

I don't think we are. Its absurd to suggest people have signed into a course and then state that they were not aware that their pay is less in real terms than it was 17 years ago.

Its basically saying the NHS actually is not a model we can keep and we need to adopt privatisation.

 

[Nick]

Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.

If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?

We’ve a huge issue having to take many non English doctors

 

[Grendel]

We’ve a huge issue having to take many non English doctors

The English doctors seem happy to be trained here and then leave to Australia where they are paid more. I am sure there is a way the government could stop that.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?

I'd suggest not granting them a pay that justifies the ever increasing demand being put on them is discouraging. I guess the truth will only come out in the next few years.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.

If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?

We’ve a huge issue having to take many non English doctors

There were apparently 20,000 young doctors who apparently missed out on speciality training places this year, yet we’ve apparently got a doctor shortage so we’re employing a load of foreign docs ?! Make it make sense . This is what the BMA should be focussed on and where they should be wanting more cash directed to as it would benefit their members, the nhs and the country.

Another element of the shambolic nature of the NHS which just seems too unwieldy to control/manage properly.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I'd suggest not granting them a pay that justifies the ever increasing demand being put on them is discouraging. I guess the truth will only come out in the next few years.

They got 22% last year and been offered 5.6% this year. If that warrants striking the country might as well shut down

 

[shmmeee]

They got 22% last year and been offered 5.6% this year. If that warrants striking the country might as well shut down

How do their wages compare internationally? Thats the market we’re competing in.

 

[shmmeee]

Found this

https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/s/fAiNg5Q4iL

Seems we’re pretty middle of the pack but training is significantly longer. Maybe that’s the answer though I assume would also cost more with fewer JDs

 

[CCFCSteve]

How do their wages compare internationally? Thats the market we’re competing in.

I presume it will vary country to country but pretty sure for GPs and specialists we pay pretty well. Probably depends on type of health service run in each country as well. I’d imagine more resident docs are likely to fuck off elsewhere because there’s isn’t a place for speciality training for them ? (Like the 20k I mentioned last year). It’s a shambles

 

[SBT]

It's not like they're demanding six figures after drinking their way through a BA in Journalism.

So should I cancel my meeting with HR tomorrow?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.

Nick will be back to moaning indirectly about foreigners again shortly

 

[SBT]

Nick will be back to moaning indirectly about foreigners again shortly

What if it was Tommy Robinson demanding a pay rise though

 

[fernandopartridge]

"why does the NHS spend so much money on expensive locums and temporary staff?"

 

[wingy]

"why does the NHS spend so much money on expensive locums and temporary staff?"

To make them rich?
Or is it the agencies?
Must make for an interesting dynamic in the workplace!

 

[chiefdave]

To make them rich?
Or is it the agencies?

At least in the area my ex worked in the process went like this.

1) budget cuts lead to staff cuts
2) there's now not enough staff to do the job safely, especially if anyone is off sick, on holiday etc
3) agency workers get called in to maintain minimum 'safe' staffing levels
4) the agency workers are previous full time staff who were let go as part of the budget cuts
5) they are paid less but cost more as the agency takes a nice chunk of the money
6) government of the day claim more is being spent on NHS staff, but fails to mention its on less staff

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Thread sums the country up nicely. Can’t be arsed to pay medical professionals properly or offer decent conditions, also don’t want foreigners in to do the work for less.

Make your mind up

 

[Grendel]

Thread sums the country up nicely. Can’t be arsed to pay medical professionals properly or offer decent conditions, also don’t want foreigners in to do the work for less.

Make your mind up

Who actually decides what they are worth?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Thread sums the country up nicely. Can’t be arsed to pay medical professionals properly or offer decent conditions, also don’t want foreigners in to do the work for less.

Make your mind up

The undervaluing of medical professionals on this forum is pretty crazy.

If we weren't rapidly becoming a fatter and unhealthier nation too maybe you could dismiss it.

 

[Grendel]

The undervaluing of medical professionals on this forum is pretty crazy.

If we weren't rapidly becoming a fatter and unhealthier nation too maybe you could dismiss it.

No one is dismissing it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Who actually decides what they are worth?

In this case the government. Personally I think we should offer strong wages and working conditions to attract and retain the best quality.

I’m sure on a matter as important as healthcare you agree.

 

[Nick]

Nick will be back to moaning indirectly about foreigners again shortly

Don't think I've ever moaned about foreigners coming over to graft. Perfectly fine with me.

 

[Nick]

Genuine question, at what point would some of you say "taking the piss now" with people demanding pay rises or striking?

 

[Nick]

In this case the government. Personally I think we should offer strong wages and working conditions to attract and retain the best quality.

I’m sure on a matter as important as healthcare you agree.

Define strong wages and working conditions...

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Genuine question, at what point would some of you say "taking the piss now" with people demanding pay rises or striking?

People is a very general word to use.

Are we talking about medical professionals who've trained for 10-15 years, or Shop workers?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Define strong wages and working conditions...

Do you disagree with the principle?

 

[CCFCSteve]

"why does the NHS spend so much money on expensive locums and temporary staff?"

Because it’s poorly run

Edit - I’m saying this after speaking to a nhs consultant a couple of years ago. He explained that one of the main reasons for the exodus of staff, in particular nurses into locum/agency work was the poor staff planning and timetabling. Those with kids had better viability and flexibility by working as a temp

 

[mmttww]

So should I cancel my meeting with HR tomorrow?

You could ask Pete to sub for you in his lycra?

 

[Nick]

People is a very general word to use.

Are we talking about medical professionals who've trained for 10-15 years, or Shop workers?

It's gone from FP giving examples of somebody fresh from uni to now being 10-15 years after in.

Somebody could be a GP after 10 years of training or after 15 years be an experienced consultant. They aren't junior doctors that we are on about??

 

[Nick]

Do you disagree with the principle?

I'm asking how it's defined.

It's all well and good saying it over and over every time somebody wants to strike but define it.

You only have to see what the train driver union thing as bad working conditions. (The poor sods having to use a tablet)

 

[Lamps]

Genuine question, at what point would some of you say "taking the piss now" with people demanding pay rises or striking?

Train drivers? Over 1k a week isn't enough?