Do you want to discuss boring politics? (35 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Capital spenditure btw is a direct investment into the private sector. Much better that investment comes from a currency issuing government than from a private bank expecting it to be repaid with interest. Well done to Reeves for announcing this and let's have more of it.

 

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[fatso]

Capital spenditure btw is a direct investment into the private sector. Much better that investment comes from a currency issuing government than from a private bank expecting it to be repaid with interest. Well done to Reeves for announcing this and let's have more of it.

Where's the money coming from?

 

[mmttww]

I don’t think either apply to a conversation about nuclear in the UK in 2025.

I get your point, I'd just rather have energy from other sources but I know that's a bit utopian. I'm more interested in when fusion kicks off so we can have warp drives tbh!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Please explain how the UK government could ever struggle to repay a debt it owes denominated in pounds sterling.

I've borrowed some thoughts from others on the thread. Can I ever run out of thoughts to repay those debts?

It will need to tax, cut or print more just to service the interest on the debt. Let’s assuming it’s print, as I’ve explained before the more you do this, the more you debase the currency (reducing purchasing power) and in turn the more bond yields are likely to rise because lenders will want a higher return due to the anticipated further debasement of the currency…so the interest on your debt increases even more

Only way to get out of this doom loop is growth hence the comment about making sure money is spent wisely

 

[CCFCSteve]

The same is true for most people. Difference is people have to pay it off before retirement and a country never retires. This deficit hawk attitude has consistently just lead to expensive failures in public services and crumbling infrastructure that needs rebuilding. We’ve had 14 years of stagnation, how you can argue for more is beyond me TBH.

Not sure who you’re replying to there but as I’ve just said we need to spend and invest more (but need to make sure cash is spent wisely) I presume it’s someone else

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not sure who you’re replying to there but as I’ve just said we need to spend and invest more (but need to make sure cash is spent wisely) I presume it’s someone else

Good to see more funding for science in this country anyway. Better late than never

 

[wingy]

Are we still out of line from the Boe point of view?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Where's the money coming from?

Where all money comes from, being spent into existence by the issuer of the currency. Where do you think it comes from?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Can hardly be a surprise. History tells us Labour overspend, The Conservatives clear it up and get blamed for needless austerity. Rinse and repeat.

Well, apart from the fact we've increased borrowing under the Tories whilst also letting the infrastructure go to ruin, choosing instead to give loads of money to the rich with tax breaks and subsidies.

At least if you spend on that infrastructure you have a capital asset, plus providing employment thus increasing tax take and purchasing power whilst decreasing welfare and benefit payments.

It could just as easily be argued that the Tories massively underinvest and Labour have to clear it up (but by which time the bill has increased massively) and get blamed for overspending.

 

[fatso]

Where all money comes from, being spent into existence by the issuer of the currency. Where do you think it comes from?

So are you seriously suggesting that quantitive easing is the correct way to go?

 

[fatso]

At least if you spend on that infrastructure you have a capital asset, plus providing employment thus increasing tax take and purchasing power whilst decreasing welfare and benefit payments.

The issue we have is that the infrastructure spend has (historically)largely been done on completely pointless projects, such as the Thames flood barrier, HS2, millennium dome etc etc
While at the same time we've neglected our power infrastructure and water supply systems, two vital pieces of infrastructure that have been crying out for investment for years. A couple of new reservoirs to supply the massive house building project would make far more sence than HS2

 

[SBT]

Am I too late for the discussion about major UK parties making questionable decisions about appointing new leaders?

 

[fernandopartridge]

So are you seriously suggesting that quantitive easing is the correct way to go?

Where have I said that

 

[shmmeee]

I get your point, I'd just rather have energy from other sources but I know that's a bit utopian. I'm more interested in when fusion kicks off so we can have warp drives tbh!

Fusion is only five years away!

And always will be.

Would love it but I don’t think we can bank on it any more than us suddenly solving artificial intelligence.

There’s been huge propoganda against nuclear as long as I’ve been alive. Even The Simpsons FFS. When you look into it its biggest issue is cost and it costs so much because people are so over the top on safety and planning. Cheap energy is so key and the downward trend basically stopped when we decided as a species we didn’t like nuclear. Hopefully wind and solar pick that up. But I’ll take any energy production that isn’t beholden to a bunch of despots.

 

[mmttww]

Fusion is only five years away!

 

[mmttww]

But I’ll take any energy production that isn’t beholden to a bunch of despots.

and tbf I'd take hardcore Scientists over goons from petrostates. You've talked me round. Kudos! Still hope the reactors don't kill us all, though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The issue we have is that the infrastructure spend has (historically)largely been done on completely pointless projects, such as the Thames flood barrier, HS2, millennium dome etc etc
While at the same time we've neglected our power infrastructure and water supply systems, two vital pieces of infrastructure that have been crying out for investment for years. A couple of new reservoirs to supply the massive house building project would make far more sence than HS2

I don't disagree with that, but you were saying that we always have to cut spending because Labour always overspend.

What you've just stated there isn't that though is it?

 

[fatso]

Where have I said that

Well you can only produced the money promised by raising taxes, or by further austerity, or by irresponsible leanding or by shaking the mythical money tree and printing extra money out of thin air. (ie quantitive easing with all the negative consequences involved)

So which of the above are you suggesting?

 

[fatso]

I don't disagree with that, but you were saying that we always have to cut spending because Labour always overspend.

What you've just stated there isn't that though is it?

It's not, but at least the overspend would be justifiable as it's on desperately needed infrastructure.

Labour piss money away on nonsense, such as giving away British sovereign soil, as in the Chagos Islands (which were ours) and then paying millions to lease it back!!!!

And don't even start me on the cost of migrant hotels, which is costing us billions due to a failed asylum processing system.

(For balance the Tory's were just as culpable)

 

[skybluetony176]

Well you can only produced the money promised by raising taxes, or by further austerity, or by irresponsible leanding or by shaking the mythical money tree and printing extra money out of thin air. (ie quantitive easing with all the negative consequences involved)

So which of the above are you suggesting?

Quantitative easing is the manufacturing of money specifically to stimulate the economy. Manufacturing money for the purpose of investing in capital expenditure is not quantitative easing, it’s investment. To use the simplistic analogy of household spending it’s borrowing money just so you can spend more on nothing in particular vs borrowing money to invest in your house, new windows, re-wiring, maybe an extension etc. One is intangible the other is tangible. So not nearly the same thing.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well you can only produced the money promised by raising taxes, or by further austerity, or by irresponsible leanding or by shaking the mythical money tree and printing extra money out of thin air. (ie quantitive easing with all the negative consequences involved)

So which of the above are you suggesting?

You are wrong, it's pointless talking to you

 

[fatso]

You are wrong, it's pointless talking to you

Rediculous way of avoiding the most obvious question.
Clearly you have no answer.
You should apply for Rachel Reeves's job.

 

[shmmeee]

and tbf I'd take hardcore Scientists over goons from petrostates. You've talked me round. Kudos! Still hope the reactors don't kill us all, though.

Climate aside, the civilised world moving to a situation where it doesn’t have to fund absolute maniacs would be a huge win.

Well you can only produced the money promised by raising taxes, or by further austerity, or by irresponsible leanding or by shaking the mythical money tree and printing extra money out of thin air. (ie quantitive easing with all the negative consequences involved)

So which of the above are you suggesting?

Read some Keynes if you want the theory behind it. This is fairly bog standard mainstream economics.

 

[Grendel]

Growth, growth, growth….

Largest ever plunge in UK exports to US as Trump tariffs hurt growth; Britain ‘turning into a National Health State’ – business live

UK economy shrank by 0.3% in April, biggest fall since October 2023, as trade with the US slumped

www.theguardian.com

 

[MalcSB]

Rediculous way of avoiding the most obvious question.
Clearly you have no answer.
You should apply for Rachel Reeves's job.

Overqualified.

 

[fatso]

Read some Keynes if you want the theory behind it. This is fairly bog standard mainstream economics.

His theories don't stack up in the "real world" wage and price inflation, tax avoidance by the wealthy and corruption at senior levels saw to that.

 

[fernandopartridge]

His theories don't stack up in the "real world" wage and price inflation, tax avoidance by the wealthy and corruption at senior levels saw to that.

In the real world money is created every day through government spending, that is a fact. Here is some research into how it all works

Modern Monetary Theory - a brief introduction - The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies

Living within your means is a good rule for households, but a government with its own currency and its own central bank is not at all like a household.

gimms.org.uk

I'll give you your due, consistently clueless whether on or off topic

 

[shmmeee]

His theories don't stack up in the "real world" wage and price inflation, tax avoidance by the wealthy and corruption at senior levels saw to that.

OK BRB off to tell the post war consensus it didn’t work.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Growth, growth, growth….

Largest ever plunge in UK exports to US as Trump tariffs hurt growth; Britain ‘turning into a National Health State’ – business live

UK economy shrank by 0.3% in April, biggest fall since October 2023, as trade with the US slumped

www.theguardian.com

But five minutes ago you were blaming Starmer for being weak and sucking up to Trump in order to try and minimise the effect of the tariffs. Can hardly blame UK government when you've got a DESPOTUS wildly slapping tariffs on and off on a whim without having the faintest idea what trade deficits are.

Even I wouldn't blame the Tories for us having reduced trade with the US at the moment if there were still in power.

 

[rob9872]

His theories don't stack up in the "real world" wage and price inflation, tax avoidance by the wealthy and corruption at senior levels saw to that.

I think they can, but only with optimum conditions. Outdated rather than don't work would be fairer.

 

[fatso]

I think they can, but only with optimum conditions. Outdated rather than don't work would be fairer.

Outdated, maybe.

But if his theories worked, the whole world would have adopted them.

 

[shmmeee]

Outdated, maybe.

But if his theories worked, the whole world would have adopted them.

They pretty much did.

 

[Captain Dart]

In the real world money is created every day through government spending, that is a fact. Here is some research into how it all works

Modern Monetary Theory - a brief introduction - The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies

Living within your means is a good rule for households, but a government with its own currency and its own central bank is not at all like a household.

gimms.org.uk

I'll give you your due, consistently clueless whether on or off topic

It's not government spending it's borrowing.

You should find out how banks create money from nothing, biggest scam ever. If you have a mortgage you're paying intrest on that magic money.

 

[SBT]

Growth, growth, growth….

Largest ever plunge in UK exports to US as Trump tariffs hurt growth; Britain ‘turning into a National Health State’ – business live

UK economy shrank by 0.3% in April, biggest fall since October 2023, as trade with the US slumped

www.theguardian.com

Huge strategic error by Reeves and Starmer to impose massive tariffs on UK exports to the United States imo

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Outdated, maybe.

But if his theories worked, the whole world would have adopted them.

The US tried trickle down economics more than once, and is in the midst of doing it again. The wealth never trickles down and the deficits get exploded.