clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Haha!
Sorry but if you have to put scare quotes around standard Labour faction descriptions I have to question how much you understand Labour internal politics. If you think the soft left and the right are the same you’ll never win a single leadership election. Soft left win every one as they’re by far the biggest faction.
I’m not sure how in my walls of text repeatedly going “the left need to put their big boy pants on and take elections seriously because their policy is fine” you’ve managed to get “I don’t think any left wing policy can win” TBH.
I’m saying you can’t have everything all at once fronted by a crank with zero credibility who gets visibly angry every time he’s asked to do basic politics.
Is that all the left has? Joke politicians? Is it incapable of getting past a permanent victim complex and refusal to look in the mirror or face voters after a defeat like everyone else? None of these things are about policy. Just basic political hygiene.
Thanks for the intel agent duffer.
Have you fully decontaminated yet?
From living in the Wellingborough constituency Labour were very active with their leafleting, door knocking and general presence throughout. The Tories barely made an effort, and a lot of locals were very unhappy at the candidate selection. Reform made more of an effort, and they’re fucking bonkers!So the Tories took a kicking in both by-elections yesterday, with enormous swings to Labour.
However ... as has been the case in many of the recent by-elections in this Parliament, the result is not as stunning for Starmer as they are suggesting, in my view: In Wellingborough, the number of votes cast for the (winning) Labour candidate yesterday (I would, by the way!!) were pretty much identical, give or take a couple of hundred, to those cast for the (losing) Labour candidate at the 2019 GE. The difference was that the Tory voters didn't show (32,277 in 2019 to 7,408 yesterday).
That is a consequence of the turnout (65% in 2019 vs 38% yesterday), which is often the case for "mid-term" by-elections.
The Tories were batshit crazy to nominate that dickhead Bone's partner as their candidate in the same bloody constituency he got recalled in - she was part of his toxic legacy.
In Kingswood, the number of people who voted for the winning Labour candidate was 5,000 FEWER than for the loser in 2019 (turnout 37% and 71%, respectively.
In both cases, if Starmer and Labour were THAT popular, wouldn't you expect to see more people turning up to vote for them at a by-election? It's not all about percentages and swings, and if Labour DON'T get more actual people showing up next time round, they might get a shock!
I take your point. I don't quite understand why the Tories have given up fielding electable candidates in some of their heartlands. This Bone-lite woman is one case, but another was in the Mid Beds constituency vacated by the lunatic Dorries - they decided to put their weight behind the guy who was the least popular police and crime commissioner in living memory (and i include the current clown for West Mercia in that). He also happens to be black, which wouldn't have helped his cause in the minds of the mostly white bigots of the Shires. He got a spanking and hasn't been heard of since.From living in the Wellingborough constituency Labour were very active with their leafleting, door knocking and general presence throughout. The Tories barely made an effort, and a lot of locals were very unhappy at the candidate selection. Reform made more of an effort, and they’re fucking bonkers!
I take your point. I don't quite understand why the Tories have given up fielding electable candidates in some of their heartlands. This Bone-lite woman is one case, but another was in the Mid Beds constituency vacated by the lunatic Dorries - they decided to put their weight behind the guy who was the least popular police and crime commissioner in living memory (and i include the current clown for West Mercia in that). He also happens to be black, which wouldn't have helped his cause in the minds of the mostly white bigots of the Shires. He got a spanking and hasn't been heard of since.
From living in the Wellingborough constituency Labour were very active with their leafleting, door knocking and general presence throughout. The Tories barely made an effort, and a lot of locals were very unhappy at the candidate selection. Reform made more of an effort, and they’re fucking bonkers!
Shades of the last election all over againThe share of the reform vote is interesting and it’s likely some deal with Tice and Farage will be struck before the election
Says it all when people would rather vote for a party with no plan and no clue instead of having the Tories in power for another term.Check out the audience at Tetchy's little GB News event the other day!
Says it all when people would rather vote for a party with no plan and no clue instead of having the Tories in power for another term.
How bad must Sunak be!
Pretty bad. Not as bad as Truss, but that's probably because he's yet to be sectioned.How bad must Sunak be!
This is not a plan, these are just a set of high level sound bites, they're barely even smart objectives. You'd hear exactly he same sort of thing from the Tories.They do have a plan.
Whether you like it or agree with it is a different matter, but they do have a plan:
Missions – The Labour Party
This Labour government was elected on the promise of change – to deliver a decade of national renewal. Our manifesto promised, through mission-led government, to put the country back in the service of working people. Our five missions are ambitious but long-term goals, a decade long-project to...labour.org.uk
Stop listening to Rishi
They do have a plan.
Whether you like it or agree with it is a different matter, but they do have a plan:
Missions – The Labour Party
This Labour government was elected on the promise of change – to deliver a decade of national renewal. Our manifesto promised, through mission-led government, to put the country back in the service of working people. Our five missions are ambitious but long-term goals, a decade long-project to...labour.org.uk
Stop listening to Rishi
This is not a plan, these are just a set of high level sound bites, they're barely even smart objectives. You'd hear exactly he same sort of thing from the Tories.
A Labour government will:
Cut waiting times by giving the NHS the staff and technology it needs.
End the 8am scramble for GP appointments and giving patients a choice of appointments in person or on the phone.
Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide.
More care in the community so patients aren’t stuck in hospital.
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I think he may have missed the point as to WHY there was a financial crisis. People doing stupid, unsustainable things to inflate an economy beyond what is actually feasible.
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Why would people care that much about a by-election that is likely a few months before a full GE?So the Tories took a kicking in both by-elections yesterday, with enormous swings to Labour.
However ... as has been the case in many of the recent by-elections in this Parliament, the result is not as stunning for Starmer as they are suggesting, in my view: In Wellingborough, the number of votes cast for the (winning) Labour candidate yesterday (I would, by the way!!) were pretty much identical, give or take a couple of hundred, to those cast for the (losing) Labour candidate at the 2019 GE. The difference was that the Tory voters didn't show (32,277 in 2019 to 7,408 yesterday).
That is a consequence of the turnout (65% in 2019 vs 38% yesterday), which is often the case for "mid-term" by-elections.
The Tories were batshit crazy to nominate that dickhead Bone's partner as their candidate in the same bloody constituency he got recalled in - she was part of his toxic legacy.
In Kingswood, the number of people who voted for the winning Labour candidate was 5,000 FEWER than for the loser in 2019 (turnout 37% and 71%, respectively.
In both cases, if Starmer and Labour were THAT popular, wouldn't you expect to see more people turning up to vote for them at a by-election? It's not all about percentages and swings, and if Labour DON'T get more actual people showing up next time round, they might get a shock!
I agree - polling companies rarely seem to use methods which capture the whole population (especially the older, perhaps Tory-biased people) because they focus on online polling. It's like asking us to believe that the views (on pretty much any subject you care to mention) expressed on social media platforms (especially Twitter) are remotely representative of the population as a whole. It skews people's thinking.Why would people care that much about a by-election that is likely a few months before a full GE?
However, I do think the overall feeling from them rings true. Labour not really gaining support, just the Tories losing it.
That's why, although I think Labour will win the election it won't be anywhere near the margins some people are expecting. Tories won't get 'wiped out'. When push comes to shove many of the traditional Tory voters will go and put their X in the box as they normally do, purely for fear of having Labour.
The Reform candidate made a lot of noise about wanting to take down the Tories, but as you’ve suggested I imagine they will quieten down if the right deal is done.The share of the reform vote is interesting and it’s likely some deal with Tice and Farage will be struck before the election
Yep that’s a real dangerThe Reform candidate made a lot of noise about wanting to take down the Tories, but as you’ve suggested I imagine they will quieten down if the right deal is done.
The Reform candidate made a lot of noise about wanting to take down the Tories, but as you’ve suggested I imagine they will quieten down if the right deal is done.
I think he may have missed the point as to WHY there was a financial crisis. People doing stupid, unsustainable things to inflate an economy beyond what is actually feasible.
In Kingswood the combined vote was higher than labour
Teleporting?
Even you can’t believe “if you combined two different parties they beat a single party” is a serious argument.
Wait until you hear about my grandmas potential as a revolutionary green transport
Teleporting?
I'm with her if she goes electric, only for journeys of around 20 miles,, definitely ten!Bicycle
At some point in time the UK needs a commercial and domestic property price correction, the sort that should have occurred post GFC but didn't.Which of the normal growth suggestions are stupid and unsustainable? Arguably the GFC was caused by lack of proper growth and everyone betting on housing instead.
Usual ideas:
- Closer ties to the EU for trade
- Massive housebuilding program
- Simplified planning system
- Education investment
Any answers to this?What would be the effect of currency cut of say 10 cents ATM?
What about the lenders taking the hit ae well or is that what you mean?At some point in time the UK needs a commercial and domestic property price correction, the sort that should have occurred post GFC but didn't.
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They should take a hit, the risk of a property mortgage should not fall on one party onlyWhat about the lenders taking the hit ae well or is that what you mean?
If I were in their shoes I’d smell blood and try to nab a few seats. Tories that unpopular they might manage it.The share of the reform vote is interesting and it’s likely some deal with Tice and Farage will be struck before the election
We've discussed this before. Growth is, by its very nature, unsustainable and a fools errand.. All the time needing ever higher populations, land and resources that are finite being used faster and faster. Just a recipe for war over territory and resources until it implodes spectacularly.Which of the normal growth suggestions are stupid and unsustainable? Arguably the GFC was caused by lack of proper growth and everyone betting on housing instead.
Usual ideas:
- Closer ties to the EU for trade
- Massive housebuilding program
- Simplified planning system
- Education investment
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