D
Deleted member 4439
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It has to be said, they've been brilliant at selling the country assets. And the shares giveaway in the 80s was simply fab for the middle classes.
Yes - giving my parents the chance to buy their council house so they (my Dad) could actually get on the housing ladder. Without that he probably never would have done.
And of course
5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)
6. Real terms increases in NHS
7. Real terms increase in education funding
8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment
8. Lowest level of recorded crimes
9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)
10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent
11. A fun and optimistic PM.
Interesting but not surprising, we've become America
also falls in line with what people say about many on the left hating their country ... not a dig but an observation proving to be correct View attachment 20045
What of the criteria wouldn’t they meet?Scottish people voting to stay in the EU when they wouldn't meet any of the entry criteria if they became independent is crazy.
Here's a question .
Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .
I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .
As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .
It doesn't add up .
I'd appreciate your thoughts on it
Not everything can be bad , it's impossible
No I can't deny that , Boris won't allow the vote anyway
Not fully formed but there’s a wider point about the left and its aversion to masculinity generally, which encompasses pride, strength, leadership, etc.
I'd argue that politically, he's in danger of making the independence movement grow if he denies a vote, too.It’s not a ringing endorsement if he’s there saying no even if they get 55-60% plus wanting it
I'd argue that politically, he's in danger of making the independence movement grow if he denies a vote, too.
I'd argue that politically, he's in danger of making the independence movement grow if he denies a vote, too.
Same issue more pro EU parties had in the last General Election.Unionists could always work together and stand aside in certain areas in future to ensure that the snp loses ..in many areas unionists got more votes but split ..
The snp literally gets a majority because of this
There is nothing to suggest a majority of Scots even want another vote (other than sturgeon banging on about it). A majority even voted for unionist parties in last weeks election. Also recent polling suggests if there was a vote, remain would win again.
Ps agree with NW though, denying the vote will potentially boost sturgeon support but she has limited right to ask, especially when it appears a majority of Scots don’t currently want it
It has. If there really isn't the appetite for independence, let them have their vote.My point was less that and more that Brexit has boosted support for independence which seems difficult to deny
On a more serious note , this is keir doing slightly better on social media I suppose ..
Rather than " vote us for a brighter future " , which is just soundbites, atleast he's saying what they did and what they offer .
He has to push Labour policies and achievements openly and constantly View attachment 20046
Yes, there was a strong line from Burnham that this - and devolution - may be the future of Labour politics - make sense. Tories keep overall control, but balanced by strong regions.
But much of the Tory stuff is just soundbites.
Labour have been criticised for being negative and pushing how bad the Tories are, now you're saying when they post positive stuff about what they offer it's just meaningless soundbites.
Has there been a more meaningless soundbite than 'Get Brexit Done'? It says nothing of what they offer or hope to achieve in that Brexit deal yet millions lapped it up and gave them a huge majority on the back of it.
If the attitude is going to be , but the tories , for the next few years then we can't expect change as we already know that doesn't work
Yes, but you've literally just criticised the opposite approach of 'vote for us for a brighter future' as nothing but a soundbite. Which is the Tory go-to. Remember 'Labour Isn't Working'? Exactly the same message of negativity in the current governing party - lapped up.
They are already in power though , they are in control .
They are already in power though , they are in control .
That campaign was from when labour were in govt.
By changing ...I'm not paid enough to work out how thoughSo how is the opposition ever meant to win?
Bite the bullet and be more centrist otherwise it’s oblivion
Labour last won an election 16 years ago
I've had the rolling news coverage on in the background at work the last few days. In amongst the parade of political 'experts' a few have brought up pasokification. Now my knowledge on this is so wide ranging I had to google what it meantMoving to the right under Starmer has resulted in even more losses.
I've had the rolling news coverage on in the background at work the last few days. In amongst the parade of political 'experts' a few have brought up pasokification. Now my knowledge on this is so wide ranging I had to google what it meantThe general idea is that since around 2010 there has been a steady decline in the popularity of centre and centre-left politics in the Western world with a coinciding rise in nationalist and right wing politics.
Certainly seems to tie in with what we've seen here in recent years and of course matches the new Labour mantra that its not Starmers fault its all part of a long term decline that started well before he took over. However there's another part to this, alongside the rise in nationalist and right wing politics there has been a rise in the popularity of left wing politics. The basic argument seemed to be that people are divided on everything and increasingly uninterested in the middle ground. Brexit was often used as an example which was of course pretty much half the country against the other half and no desire to meet in the middle.
This then brings up an uncomfortable issue for Labour. Instead of writing off Corbyn's success in 2017 as an anomaly it becomes a good example of pasokification in action. When you look at Labour vote share from Blair onwards its quite striking:
43.2 - 40.7 - 35.2 - 29 - 30.4 - 40 - 32.1
Even more so when you consider that the 32.1% share Corbyn got that was a disaster is actually their second highest post-Blair share, second only to Corbyn in the previous election.
Now I'm not for a second suggesting they get Corbyn back in and victory will follow but it does suggest rather than rushing to purge the left and embrace the most middle of the road policies they can find they might want to look outside the Labour bubble at what is going on around the world.
It was also pointed out that in this election most of the few areas Labour performed well in had more left leaning candidates and / or candidates who had taken the government to task. Think there's a lot of thinking for Labour to do.
Diane Abbott anyone?Given that it’s nothing to do with policy and all about perception and personality, a charismatic leader and media charm offensive are required
And of course
5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)
6. Real terms increases in NHS
7. Real terms increase in education funding
8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment
8. Lowest level of recorded crimes
9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)
10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent
11. A fun and optimistic PM.
They are already in power though , they are in control .
5. We took the longest time to recover from the GFC out of the large Western economies.
6. And yet it entered the COVID pandemic very much under-equipped.
7. Teachers' pay was frozen for a decade amidst the 'fairer funding' plan which would see money taken from some schools to be redistributed to others, instead of an across the board increase in funding. Theresa May also included in her 2017 manifesto the plan to reinstate grammar schools, a socially regressive policy idea only blunted by her losing the majority
8. Which has correlated with a higher % of people reliant on part time, temporary or zero hour work.
9. Evidence please
10. Brexit has not been a success so far
11. An arbitrary target set 30 years in the future is meaningless unless backed up with tangible progress towards it
12. He's a charlatan who has put the Union in its most precarious position since 1707
What I find amusing about the list is you praise higher spending across the board which is dismissed every time Labour put it in the manifesto. Why is it one party is held to so much a higher standard than the other?
Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
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