Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

[Philosorapter]

Another spy report on Duggins from my innocent mother. She received a letter on Friday from something just casually mentioned on the doorstep Wednesday which deals with the issue she had.

Absolute sterling work from Duggins here.

 

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[Deleted member 4439]

Cup of tea and a Rich Tea biscuit. Or a bag of chips.

And of course

From the last decade they get credit from me for

1. Passing gay marriage though with a big nudge from the Lib Dems

2. Raising the minimum wage, though not by enough

3. Furlough, though again this could have reached more people

4. Buying up vaccines before anyone else

The rest I am struggling

5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)

6. Real terms increases in NHS

7. Real terms increase in education funding

8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment

8. Lowest level of recorded crimes

9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)

10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent

11. A fun and optimistic PM.

 

[David O'Day]

Scottish people voting to stay in the EU when they wouldn't meet any of the entry criteria if they became independent is crazy.

Spain would veto them anyway to stop the Catalan and Basque nationalists getting ideas.

 

[chiefdave]

And of course

5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)

6. Real terms increases in NHS

7. Real terms increase in education funding

8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment

8. Lowest level of recorded crimes

9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)

10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent

I was struggling to think of anything past vaccine procurement so decided to google and see what came up. The first result was Conservative campaign literature which by a stunning coincidence has listed exactly the same things as you

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

It's about perception and marketing.

The perception of the Labour party is poor and they don't market themselves well, with complicated slogans and focusing on the policy and arguments. Even when the do the three word slogan it's crap and says nothing. 'A New Leadership' says fuck all.

The perception of the Tories is more positive than it deserves to be, with the help of the media in many cases. They do simplistic slogans that are generic and so can mean different things to different people. They even manage to spin hugely negative things like more foodbanks as a positive and know to focus on tiny positives for the working man when the main beneficiaries will be big business or the rich. ZHC are seen as giving flexibility to workers rather than an erosion of workers rights and a boon to employers. They've managed to increase perception of things like unions as nothing more than troublesome.

It also helps that there is a massive lack of integrity with the Tory ranks, of which Johnson is the biggest example. He changes his opinion more often than his socks depending on which way the wind is blowing. It's literally 'what is it you want to hear and I'll just repeat it back at you'.

We are at the closest point of the break up of the union in history and yet the perception wouldn't be that it was a Tory government that caused it, it'd be labour/left because they're less nationalistic and if they loved their countrry a bit more it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

I was struggling to think of anything past vaccine procurement so decided to google and see what came up. The first result was Conservative campaign literature which by a stunning coincidence has listed exactly the same things as you

Nope, off me head son.

 

[PVA]

"Real terms increases in NHS"

Shame it's increased at a massively lower rate than the average since the inception of the NHS though.

Minor detail of course

 

[Ian1779]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

Yes - giving my parents the chance to buy their council house so they (my Dad) could actually get on the housing ladder. Without that he probably never would have done.

 

[PVA]

"Real terms increase in education funding"

This one is wrong too.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Yes - giving my parents the chance to buy their council house so they (my Dad) could actually get on the housing ladder. Without that he probably never would have done.

It has to be said, they've been brilliant at selling the country assets. And the shares giveaway in the 80s was simply fab for the middle classes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

And of course



5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)

6. Real terms increases in NHS

7. Real terms increase in education funding

8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment

8. Lowest level of recorded crimes

9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)

10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent

11. A fun and optimistic PM.

You have to see the negative of some of these as well though. The austerity caused huge job losses, hardly great for the wroking man. But hey, the debt we were amassing year on year wasn't quite so much as before, but still high.

The Brexit deal may have been done but what actually advantages of this deal have there been? Having a deal done isn't a positive when it's a shit one.

I see you didn't add 'competent' to the PM. it's not the PM's job to be fun. It's his job to run the fucking country. If you want to be seen as fun become a comedian or TV personality.

As for the others, who's to say those wouldn't be even higher under a different administration. Tories are well-known for failing to invest in public services, often to achieve the first point you make. For example, loads of people, esp on the right, are saying how the country is going to the dogs with knife crime and further right due to immigration. So if recorded crime is down doesn't this disprove those opinions? Got to also argue about the term 'recorded crime'. Many stories of crimes not being reported.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

In fairness, Boris hasn't given me as many laughs as Cummings.

 

[Evo1883]

On a more serious note , this is keir doing slightly better on social media I suppose ..

Rather than " vote us for a brighter future " , which is just soundbites, atleast he's saying what they did and what they offer .

He has to push Labour policies and achievements openly and constantly

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting but not surprising, we've become America

also falls in line with what people say about many on the left hating their country ... not a dig but an observation proving to be correct View attachment 20045

Not fully formed but there’s a wider point about the left and its aversion to masculinity generally, which encompasses pride, strength, leadership, etc.

 

[skybluetony176]

Scottish people voting to stay in the EU when they wouldn't meet any of the entry criteria if they became independent is crazy.

What of the criteria wouldn’t they meet?

 

[shmmeee]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

Fundamentally their ideology is antithetical to government action so it’s reasonable that there’s not much government action to credit them with.

That said. GDS (government digital service) was pushed hard by Osbourne and Cameron and is excellent, really dragged government web services into the 21st century.

The education reforms were crack handed and did more harm than good but the problem they were supposed to address (coursework fraud basically) was real, similarly with some other cultural issues, except there it’s always a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The freedom of speech in Uni thing was good, but at the same time they’re banning academics from talking about topics they don’t like.

Similarly right to buy is good in theory, but then you need to fund social housing more and they didn’t. Some planning changes have been good, but others awful.

Wind power push was good, but came at the expense of more sensible stuff like solar and insulation and on shore wind.

Vaccine delivery has obviously been smashed out the park, but why the dithering at the start?

Overall they want to concentrate power and wealth in the hands of a small elite and I fundamentally disagree that’s a good thing. For either democracy or the economy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I can't deny that , Boris won't allow the vote anyway

It’s not a ringing endorsement if he’s there saying no even if they get 55-60% plus wanting it

 

[Evo1883]

Not fully formed but there’s a wider point about the left and its aversion to masculinity generally, which encompasses pride, strength, leadership, etc.

Don't be hard on yourself mate

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It’s not a ringing endorsement if he’s there saying no even if they get 55-60% plus wanting it

I'd argue that politically, he's in danger of making the independence movement grow if he denies a vote, too.

 

[Evo1883]

I'd argue that politically, he's in danger of making the independence movement grow if he denies a vote, too.

Unionist parties could always work together and stand aside in certain areas in future to ensure that the snp loses ..in many areas unionists got more votes but split ..

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'd argue that politically, he's in danger of making the independence movement grow if he denies a vote, too.

He is within his rights to deny it as the last one was recent but Brexit and his idiotic handling of it has made the calls much stronger than they otherwise would have

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Unionists could always work together and stand aside in certain areas in future to ensure that the snp loses ..in many areas unionists got more votes but split ..

The snp literally gets a majority because of this

Same issue more pro EU parties had in the last General Election.

 

[CCFCSteve]

There is nothing to suggest a majority of Scots even want another vote (other than sturgeon banging on about it). A majority even voted for unionist parties in last weeks election. Also recent polling suggests if there was a vote, remain would win again.

Ps agree with NW though, denying the vote will potentially boost sturgeon support but she has limited right to ask, especially when it appears a majority of Scots don’t currently want it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There is nothing to suggest a majority of Scots even want another vote (other than sturgeon banging on about it). A majority even voted for unionist parties in last weeks election. Also recent polling suggests if there was a vote, remain would win again.

Ps agree with NW though, denying the vote will potentially boost sturgeon support but she has limited right to ask, especially when it appears a majority of Scots don’t currently want it

My point was less that and more that Brexit has boosted support for independence which seems difficult to deny

 

[NorthernWisdom]

My point was less that and more that Brexit has boosted support for independence which seems difficult to deny

It has. If there really isn't the appetite for independence, let them have their vote.

Only reason not to, otherwise, is that politically if they lose that one, it opens the door for Labour and Lib Dems to reclaim their hold as the progressive parties of Scotland, and means they're more of a threat to Tory rule. Division may, paradoxically, suit the Tories...

 

[Philosorapter]

What I have found pretty disturbing throughout these elections are MPs in yellow vests and hard hats.

You can tell by just looking at the photos how uncomfortable they are.

 

[Philosorapter]

Absolute corker.

 

[Philosorapter]

With own branding!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

On a more serious note , this is keir doing slightly better on social media I suppose ..

Rather than " vote us for a brighter future " , which is just soundbites, atleast he's saying what they did and what they offer .

He has to push Labour policies and achievements openly and constantly View attachment 20046

But much of the Tory stuff is just soundbites.

Labour have been criticised for being negative and pushing how bad the Tories are, now you're saying when they post positive stuff about what they offer it's just meaningless soundbites.

Has there been a more meaningless soundbite than 'Get Brexit Done'? It says nothing of what they offer or hope to achieve in that Brexit deal yet millions lapped it up and gave them a huge majority on the back of it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes, there was a strong line from Burnham that this - and devolution - may be the future of Labour politics - make sense. Tories keep overall control, but balanced by strong regions.

Not really. Tories set the budget so Labour at regional level will be hampered by that, as we've seen. Blamed for cutting services - had to because because Tories cut their funding. And given that the Tories are 'nicer' to Tory run councils than Labour ones it's just going to get worse isn't it?

 

[Evo1883]

But much of the Tory stuff is just soundbites.

Labour have been criticised for being negative and pushing how bad the Tories are, now you're saying when they post positive stuff about what they offer it's just meaningless soundbites.

Has there been a more meaningless soundbite than 'Get Brexit Done'? It says nothing of what they offer or hope to achieve in that Brexit deal yet millions lapped it up and gave them a huge majority on the back of it.

If the attitude is going to be , but the tories , for the next few years then we can't expect change as we already know that doesn't work

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If the attitude is going to be , but the tories , for the next few years then we can't expect change as we already know that doesn't work

Yes, but you've literally just criticised the opposite approach of 'vote for us for a brighter future' as nothing but a soundbite. Which is the Tory go-to. Remember 'Labour Isn't Working'? Exactly the same message of negativity in the current governing party - lapped up.

 

[Evo1883]

Yes, but you've literally just criticised the opposite approach of 'vote for us for a brighter future' as nothing but a soundbite. Which is the Tory go-to. Remember 'Labour Isn't Working'? Exactly the same message of negativity in the current governing party - lapped up.

They are already in power though , they are in control .

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They are already in power though , they are in control .

That campaign was from when labour were in govt.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They are already in power though , they are in control .

So how is the opposition ever meant to win?