Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

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fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I believe that their official policy is to reverse the tax cut on the additional 45% tax rate to pay for improvements in the NHS including training more nurses, doctors and health visitors. Front line at least they’re trying to make improvements and already have a plan to pay for it. I think you’re going to have to stretch a fair bit to say they plan to privatise the NHS rolling out a US style healthcare system provided by US healthcare providers which is clearly the road that the Tories want to go down. Make no mistake, Sunak is continuity Boris.
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We already have an NHS model based on the American 'Accountable Care Partnership', it's been in the offing for a few years but has finally as of July last year come to fruition as the 'Integrated Care System (ICS)'. Each ICS is comprised of a number of healthcare providers in a geographic sub region and has a capitated budget. The system has to work within that budget which inevitably means work moving from the NHS providers to private ones or stopping altogether as the local system deems it too expensive to provide. These decisions on what services can be provided will differ from area to area which means that the idea of a national health service is gone.

To be fair to Streeting he said some broadly more encouraging things last week but I don't believe that fundamentally he's likely to change any of that underlying ICS infrastructure.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
We already have an NHS model based on the American 'Accountable Care Partnership', it's been in the offing for a few years but has finally as of July last year come to fruition as the 'Integrated Care System (ICS)'. Each ICS is comprised of a number of healthcare providers in a geographic sub region and has a capitated budget. The system has to work within that budget which inevitably means work moving from the NHS providers to private ones or stopping altogether as the local system deems it too expensive to provide. These decisions on what services can be provided will differ from area to area which means that the idea of a national health service is gone.

To be fair to Streeting he said some broadly more encouraging things last week but I don't believe that fundamentally he's likely to change any of that underlying ICS infrastructure.
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TBF Corbyn pledged to scrap the planned ICS scheme at the last GE. Now I think he lost the last GE on brexit, you don’t. On that basis you probably need to rethink your approach to ICS’s as it’s clearly not a vote winner to scrap it. Part of the reason that the NHS is struggling is because it can’t discharge patients back into the community because the care isn’t available in the community. Obviously this needs addressing. On that basis on the surface of it an ICS is an obvious solution. How you go about it is the crux of the problem. I don’t trust the Tories to deliver it as I’m sure you don’t either, Labour are not yet clear on their solution but throwing the baby out with the bath water probably isn’t going to be the best starting point. I would wait until you hear what they have to say about it would be my first peace of advice. My second piece of advice would be to judge it against what the Tories are doing already and pledging to do at the next GE. There’s zero point of judging against what Corbyn would have done, that ship has sailed. You need to be comparing eggs with eggs.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
TBF Corbyn pledged to scrap the planned ICS scheme at the last GE. Now I think he lost the last GE on brexit, you don’t. On that basis you probably need to rethink your approach to ICS’s as it’s clearly not a vote winner to scrap it. Part of the reason that the NHS is struggling is because it can’t discharge patients back into the community because the care isn’t available in the community. Obviously this needs addressing. On that basis on the surface of it an ICS is an obvious solution. How you go about it is the crux of the problem. I don’t trust the Tories to deliver it as I’m sure you don’t either, Labour are not yet clear on their solution but throwing the baby out with the bath water probably isn’t going to be the best starting point. I would wait until you hear what they have to say about it would be my first peace of advice. My second piece of advice would be to judge it against what the Tories are doing already and pledging to do at the next GE. There’s zero point of judging against what Corbyn would have done, that ship has sailed. You need to be comparing eggs with eggs.
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Who said anything about Corbyn? Why are you people obsessed with Corbyn? He's gone. Left wing politics are not exclusive to him.

The ICS concept does nothing whatsoever to support social care, not a thing. There is no automatic pooling of budgets between NHS and social care and in any case if there is simply insufficient money the issues cannot be solved.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Who said anything about Corbyn? Why are you people obsessed with Corbyn? He's gone. Left wing politics are not exclusive to him.

The ICS concept does nothing whatsoever to support social care, not a thing. There is no automatic pooling of budgets between NHS and social care and in any case if there is simply insufficient money the issues cannot be solved.
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Again, Labour are proposing reintroducing the additional tax rate cut by the Tories to help pay for improvements to the NHS and pay for social care including doubling the number of district nurses and adding 5000 healthcare visitors. You can’t deny that that isn’t going to part of a better funded ICS. Obviously there’s more details that need to come out but they’re already pledging to do some of the things you’re expecting them to pledge to do.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Even the woke police Pete!!??!?
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The Met is all the evidence you need that the woke police are needed. People like Lee Anderson are more interested in turning the clock back to a time when domestic violence wasn’t considered a crime, misogyny was acceptable and there’s nothing wrong with a bit of “casual” racism. The reason the Met (and other police forces) are in such a mess is because of people of Lee’s narrow mindset running them. I hope that this new Met commissioner is every bit as woke as Lee thinks he is, it’s the only way it’s ever going to get sorted out.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
The striking across A&E, intensive care and maternity services risks turning the public against them too. So far people have generally been behind them, but it's a bit of an open goal when something bad happens - and it inevitably will, even if not directly related to the strike.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Telegraph says his involvement in the £800k loan to the Clown was a 'technical breach' so he should get away with it. Funny that, I didn't realise you could use that term as a get out of jail free card.
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So I guess if someone where to call him a technical Tory stooge on air then they should get away with it?

Surely the operative word there is 'breach'. I don't think adding 'technical' in front of it makes it any better or means he should be let off. If it's a technical breach it's still a breach and therefore should be liable to whatever penalties and sanctions come with it.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So I guess if someone where to call him a technical Tory stooge on air then they should get away with it?

Surely the operative word there is 'breach'. I don't think adding 'technical' in front of it makes it any better or means he should be let off. If it's a technical breach it's still a breach and therefore should be liable to whatever penalties and sanctions come with it.
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And yet in amongst all this is Johnson himself borrowing money from all over the place. What's he spending it all on?
 
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