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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,126
CCFCSteve said:
Agreed. I wasn’t a massive fan of Brown when he was in office but would take him over anyone in parliament at the moment, especially at a time of crisis. He’s a serious politician that ultimately has the country’s best interests at heart, even if people don’t necessarily agree with all his policies as you say.

I was looking the other day though for what Labour did to provide better energy security in their 15 years in office. I think the last two nuclear plants were started by Tory governments for example. They had a massive majority and a growing economy so had chance/funds to renationalise or make massive changes in energy but didn’t. It’s a genuine question for those that might have a better memory than me and closer to policies etc

I’m saying that as someone who voted for Labour during that time but politicians have a habit of pointing the finger at todays problems, when their past actions/inaction are part of the cause of the problem (also see GP and dentist contracts)
Click to expand...

Blair was ideologically opposed to nationalisation IIRC. It was the early 2000s and markets/“choice” were going to save everything. It’s the one major piece most Labour supporters would change I’d expect. See also PFI in the NHS and Academies.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,127
shmmeee said:
Blair was ideologically opposed to nationalisation IIRC. It was the early 2000s and markets/“choice” were going to save everything. It’s the one major piece most Labour supporters would change I’d expect. See also PFI in the NHS and Academies.
Click to expand...
Yeah bit pointless to bring it up as there's a bunch of lefties (and Grendel!) around here who'd agree utilities should be, and should have been, re nationalised.

But we are where we are, and we need a solution now... and that's on the present lot.
 
Reactions: Otis
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,128
shmmeee said:
Blair was ideologically opposed to nationalisation IIRC. It was the early 2000s and markets/“choice” were going to save everything. It’s the one major piece most Labour supporters would change I’d expect. See also PFI in the NHS and Academies.
Click to expand...

He also revoked none of the anti union laws introduced in the previous Tory governments.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,129
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,130
shmmeee said:
The last serious PM we had.
Click to expand...

Or party leader for that matter
shmmeee said:
Blair was ideologically opposed to nationalisation IIRC. It was the early 2000s and markets/“choice” were going to save everything. It’s the one major piece most Labour supporters would change I’d expect. See also PFI in the NHS and Academies.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it wasn’t a major issue/focus at the time anyway, probably wasn’t even up to a year ago. Unfortunately over the past year energy security has come into focus

Privatisation alone isn’t necessarily as bad as it sometimes appears. When companies are privately owned they’re incentivised to run more efficiently, to invest in better processes etc ultimately to generate more profit but the public can also benefit. The problem usually comes with lack of controls, regulations and enforcement of them.

The rail halfway house isn’t working, energy security is now at the forefront of peoples minds due to the war and water companies are taking the piss with their conduct (waste dumping and not dealing with leaks). All could be improved with stricter controls and regulations to force better behaviours. Having said that energy wouldn’t change much at the moment because we’re not self sufficient so at the whim of the international markets
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,131
CCFCSteve said:
Or party leader for that matter


To be fair, it wasn’t a major issue/focus at the time anyway, probably wasn’t even up to a year ago. Unfortunately over the past year energy security has come into focus

Privatisation alone isn’t necessarily as bad as it sometimes appears. When companies are privately owned they’re incentivised to run more efficiently, to invest in better processes etc ultimately to generate more profit but the public can also benefit. The problem usually comes with lack of controls, regulations and enforcement of them.

The rail halfway house isn’t working, energy security is now at the forefront of peoples minds due to the war and water companies are taking the piss with their conduct (waste dumping and not dealing with leaks). All could be improved with stricter controls and regulations to force better behaviours. Having said that energy wouldn’t change much at the moment because we’re not self sufficient so at the whim of the international markets
Click to expand...

I don’t want to start the argument again but capitalism works because it allows a lot of failure and waste in exchange for innovation and competition. There’s no competition in energy. No one is switching cos Utilitas electricity tastes better. So you get all the worst elements of an uncompetitive market, with all the waste of competition and none of the innovation.
 
Reactions: oakey, fernandopartridge, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and 2 others
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,132
shmmeee said:
I don’t want to start the argument again but capitalism works because it allows a lot of failure and waste in exchange for innovation and competition. There’s no competition in energy. No one is switching cos Utilitas electricity tastes better. So you get all the worst elements of an uncompetitive market, with all the waste of competition and none of the innovation.
Click to expand...

Hard to disagree if you’re talking about the retail energy companies, most/a lot of which has gone bust recently as there’s not much profit in it with the cap in place and wholesale prices as they are

Ultimately though most are just the middle men, taking a tiny slice. You’d need to own the energy generation companies and they operate differently to each other, innovating and investing in renewables etc, finding ways to produce/deliver energy to people as efficiently and now, as environmentally friendly, as possible. This is where the public benefit ‘should’ benefit a bit from private ownership. But also where the money is made

Edit - just to clarify, I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a debate about renationalising energy, especially in the current climate, but people need to be clear about what/how they would do it
 
Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
Reactions: shmmeee
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,133
Phew, glad to see the government are doing all they can. Thanks Boris!


 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and chohan

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,134
CCFCSteve said:
Or party leader for that matter


To be fair, it wasn’t a major issue/focus at the time anyway, probably wasn’t even up to a year ago. Unfortunately over the past year energy security has come into focus

Privatisation alone isn’t necessarily as bad as it sometimes appears. When companies are privately owned they’re incentivised to run more efficiently, to invest in better processes etc ultimately to generate more profit but the public can also benefit. The problem usually comes with lack of controls, regulations and enforcement of them.

The rail halfway house isn’t working, energy security is now at the forefront of peoples minds due to the war and water companies are taking the piss with their conduct (waste dumping and not dealing with leaks). All could be improved with stricter controls and regulations to force better behaviours. Having said that energy wouldn’t change much at the moment because we’re not self sufficient so at the whim of the international markets
Click to expand...

Privatisation of public services and utilities has been a disaster.
It's lead to a billions flowing out of the country and massive under investment.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge and Deleted member 5849
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,135
clint van damme said:
Privatisation of public services and utilities has been a disaster.
It's lead to a billions flowing out of the country and massive under investment.
Click to expand...

I cant really argue with that although it’s impossible to tell what services would be like under government ownership. my point in an earlier post is if the right controls and regulations were put in place some of the issues we see now wouldn’t/shouldnt have happened
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,136
fucks sake

 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,137
shmmeee said:
fucks sake

Click to expand...

She was probably looking at cows (I'm sure there's a Father Ted paraphrase in there somewhere)
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,138
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, Ian1779 and clint van damme

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,139
clint van damme said:
She was probably looking at cows (I'm sure there's a Father Ted paraphrase in there somewhere)
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: clint van damme
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,140
0.005833333% of the UK's landmass .
However just seen an article suggesting the country will be short of farmland by as near as 2030, something like 75% of the nation is farmland.
Edit - Crops for biomass fuels far far outstrip a few solar panels.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,141
Tory members are just awful, awful people aren't they?


 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,142
PVA said:
Tory members are just awful, awful people aren't they?


Click to expand...
It’s self interest pure and simple. They’d watch the world burn for their kids if it meant keeping the poor in their place.
 
Reactions: chohan and PVA

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2022
  • #20,143
shmmeee said:
fucks sake

Click to expand...
Just think of all those pineapple trees we could have in north Yorkshire

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Sbarcher

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,144
JAM See said:
Always fancied the Fringe, but was put off by the price of accommodation.

Two questions.

a) Is it worth going?

b) Any tips for doing it on the cheap?
Click to expand...
WGS was on great form. I didn’t need to ask about Telfor as he was referred to as Gordon’s love child. I did get an interesting story about Noel Whelan.
Is it worth going? Absolutely but you need to be well planned and fit to get to the many venues across the City. I’m taking in 5/6 a day to see a good spread of comedy, music and theatre.
to keep the costs down I stay in student accommodation. Basic but clean and many serve breakfast in their canteen. Tickets used to be very reasonable but generally now £10-12. Lots of free shows around with a bucket collection at the end.
one tip- go on your own. That way you can plan your shows to suit you and grab food and drink on the go.
 
Reactions: JAM See

cowboy1850

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,145
The police, can't respond or investigate some crimes, officers cancelling leave because staff shortages.

The NHS is riddled with issues, longer waiting times, staff shortages and recruiting issues, services being restructured, too many overpaid middle management.

Local councils and schools, union action over pay, possibly more cost cutting ahead.

Royal mail (scruffy uniform dodgers), more cost cutting, lots of union involvement.

The rest of the population being continuously hit in the pocket, mostly with energy prices, food, fuel price increases. More and more businesses going under leaving the high-steet threadbare.

We are in a downward spiral. Terminal decline. The rot is setting in and politicians don't have the answers.
 
Reactions: chohan

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,146
cowboy1850 said:
The police, can't respond or investigate some crimes, officers cancelling leave because staff shortages.

The NHS is riddled with issues, longer waiting times, staff shortages and recruiting issues, services being restructured, too many overpaid middle management.

Local councils and schools, union action over pay, possibly more cost cutting ahead.

Royal mail (scruffy uniform dodgers), more cost cutting, lots of union involvement.

The rest of the population being continuously hit in the pocket, mostly with energy prices, food, fuel price increases. More and more businesses going under leaving the high-steet threadbare.

We are in a downward spiral. Terminal decline. The rot is setting in and politicians don't have the answers.
Click to expand...
You know union members are also in the rest of society and are being hit in the same way which is the very reason they are taking action
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,147
Sky Blue Pete said:
You know union members are also in the rest of society and are being hit in the same way which is the very reason they are taking action
Click to expand...
They didn't say union action was unjustified...
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,148
shmmeee said:
The last serious PM we had.
Click to expand...
The robbing c**t who taxed the shit out of pension funds, crippling the pensions of millions of workers. absolute fucking wanker.
 
Reactions: chohan

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,149
fatso said:
The robbing c**t who taxed the shit out of pension funds, crippling the pensions of millions of workers. absolute fucking wanker.
Click to expand...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
 
Reactions: chohan

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,150
So non UK citizens who don’t live in the UK have a say in who the next PM is because the Tories allow non UK citizens living overseas to be party members even though they’re not eligible to vote in a GE. How is that allowed?

Tory leadership election: Meet the overseas voters picking the next PM

Conservatives who are not UK citizens explain why they’re voting in the party’s leadership ballot.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,151
He speaks .
Labour Labour Labour .
We're going to build a new Nuclear power station every year not every decade .
Remind me who has majorly been in power across the last fifty years .
He seems to think that decision relates to a twenty year period when in reality it goes back 50.

Edit:-ooh forgot labour force? Hardware ?materials?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,152
Where are the media / the labour right / the Tory pretend anti-racists on here going to call out Liz Truss and her stereotyping of jewish families?
 
Reactions: stupot07, Ian1779 and clint van damme

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,153
fernandopartridge said:
Where are the media / the labour right / the Tory pretend anti-racists on here going to call out Liz Truss and her stereotyping of jewish families?
Click to expand...

Whats she said?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,154
shmmeee said:
Whats she said?
Click to expand...

" “So many Jewish values are Conservative values and British values too, for example seeing the importance of family and always taking steps to protect the family unit; and the value of hard work and self-starting and setting up your own business. "
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,155
fernandopartridge said:
" “So many Jewish values are Conservative values and British values too, for example seeing the importance of family and always taking steps to protect the family unit; and the value of hard work and self-starting and setting up your own business. "
Click to expand...
Didn't think it was possible but she really is going to be much worse than Johnson. Horrible stereotyping as you say and it seems other parts of the speech were about attacking woke in the public sector. So she is saying our public services should not be alert to injustice and racism. Presumably this is to allow the Government to use all the usual racist stereotypes.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,156
He's alive!

 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,157
chiefdave said:
He's alive!

Click to expand...
A whopping £46 a year - that’ll make a dent for the people that it is relevant to.
In all seriousness it is something that should definitely be done - but he needs to announce more than this soon or risk looking like he’s completely clueless and out of touch with reality.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,158
FFS Mick

 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,159
shmmeee said:
FFS Mick

Click to expand...

90% of the article and what he says doesn’t concern that, of course, and is kind of irrelevant to his position.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 12, 2022
  • #20,160
Brighton Sky Blue said:
90% of the article and what he says doesn’t concern that, of course, and is kind of irrelevant to his position.
Click to expand...

Then he should keep his mouth shut. He runs a train union FFS. But he’s got to signal to the other tankies he’s one of the gang. There’ll be no left wing economic shift while it’s attached to this crap.
 
Reactions: bezzer, AOM, Deleted member 9744 and 3 others
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