Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
She's just dreadful.









Redwall polling i not good at all for her or her party



But yes she is that shit that Labour can basically sleep walk into power if needed. Her only chance was to see if she got a "new and shiny" poll bounce and then try for an early election but she's ruled that out.

Still the cost of living crisis is going to get so much worse with her in no.10
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
It does put me at odds with most people in left wing circles but the scientist in me understands it's needed to plug the gap while we find a long term energy and fuel solution. France got onto it at the right time and have benefitted. Part of their problem at the moment is the plants are coming to the end of their useful life which will mean some decomissioning and recommissioning needed to keep up supply.
That's one of my issues with it - it feels like we're quickly moving on with other sources and new nuclear plants being agreed now are going to be expensive millstones by the time they even come online, let alone are due to be decommissioned, If that was the way we were going to go it needed to have been a long time ago and for them to be ready to produce energy right now.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
View attachment 25739
TaKiNg BaCk CoNtRoL…

I might be wrong but I’d be shocked if that’s the case, certainly come the end of this year due to Europes historical reliance on Russia. They might be being a bit disingenuous as well. I’m not sure about how they’ve calculated Germany (this will
already be out of date) but France energy has been capped and the government are subsiding directly to minimise the rise. I presume our figure doesn’t include rebates that the government is paying out directly to us all rather than reducing the bills, which would reduce that percentage

I think most countries are fishing in the same pond for gas so paying the same wholesale price (I think we actually pay less for LNG but then pipe it over to Europe - Im not sure but believe we then get charged what they do !!!). governments will have to either subsidise customers at source or via rebates. The only true comparison would be finding out what each countries customers average bills/tarrifs are after any government assistance. I can’t see that anywhere though

Either way, Europe inc us are pretty fucked this winter. Sorry to disappoint some on here but this isn’t because we’ve left the EU 😊…it’s because for years we’ve taken our energy security for granted and let NIMBYS and eco extremists (nuclear and fracking) dictate our energy policy…then backed up by short termist governments
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
That's one of my issues with it - it feels like we're quickly moving on with other sources and new nuclear plants being agreed now are going to be expensive millstones by the time they even come online, let alone are due to be decommissioned, If that was the way we were going to go it needed to have been a long time ago and for them to be ready to produce energy right now.

Agreed. I think we’ve missed the boat with nuclear unless mini reactors can be brought in quickly and cost effectively. Don’t know enough to comment in detail though
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
It's not an extreme position to consider both to be quite bad and not the solution...

Im not sure enough has ever been done with regard to fracking in particular to tell. Nuclear is so much safer than it was. As I’ve said though I have limited knowledge. The alternative is what we’ve got now….
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing the French approach limits the inflationary push,but if it were through borrowing interest bearing and possibly currency fluctuating.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing the French approach limits the inflationary push,but if it were through borrowing interest bearing and possibly currency fluctuating.

Exactly, it’s all swings and roundabouts as we’re in same boat really….limited energy security, although Germany probably in worst position of all.

Without pointing the finger as our energy security is our own issue, Germanys over reliance on Russia rather than sort alternatives in the past has probably cost us and Europe. Big manufacturing economy all of a sudden coming into the market and needing to replace all their energy would’ve massively increased demand from our/europes market and therefore cost. We are where we are though
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Im not sure enough has ever been done with regard to fracking in particular to tell. Nuclear is so much safer than it was. As I’ve said though I have limited knowledge. The alternative is what we’ve got now….

Fracking is most definitely not an answer. Well unless you want

To keep churning carbon into the atmosphere
Earthquakes and sinkholes caused by destabilising the ground
Water contaminated with the chemical cocktail used in the process

Take a look over at the US where the contracts have been handed out like hot chips
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Fracking is most definitely not an answer. Well unless you want

To keep churning carbon into the atmosphere
Earthquakes and sinkholes caused by destabilising the ground
Water contaminated with the chemical cocktail used in the process

Take a look over at the US where the contracts have been handed out like hot chips
Even then don’t we only have enough reserves from fracking for about 5 years supply? If we’re going to stretch out gas dependency we’d be better off by any measurement opening up more fields in the North Sea.

I’m actually amazed that no one has suggested it to replace Russian supplies into Europe either. Even as an environmentalist I be open to an adult conversation about that under certain conditions such as it is only a replacement for Russian gas so in theory there’s no increased carbon release over what there would have been anyway, the profits are used on green technology and renewable investment in the UK, it involves a commitment from any European countries using it to speed up their transition to renewables. Things of that nature.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
A good example of the phoney culture war. 200 FOI request to find out 2 whole books have been black listed by the entire collective of UK’s universities and then turn it into a front page headline in the middle of a heatwave and drought, Tory leadership contest, mass strikes breaking out, the ongoing effects of the war in Ukraine including a cost of living crisis in the UK etc etc etc.



I’m old enough to remember when the Times was a serious newspaper tackling actual issues.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Fracking is most definitely not an answer. Well unless you want

To keep churning carbon into the atmosphere
Earthquakes and sinkholes caused by destabilising the ground
Water contaminated with the chemical cocktail used in the process

Take a look over at the US where the contracts have been handed out like hot chips

It won't even produce much gas in this country.
It will make a few speculators rich but cause massive environmental damage.
The fact farage s lobbying for it should tell people everying they need to know.

I think k we need a serious, public owned, nuclear program.
 

Sbarcher

Well-Known Member
Up in Edinburgh for the Fringe and just been sitting next to Jeremy Corbyn. An interesting show tomorrow with wee Gordon Strachan. Will be an interesting performance. If there is a Qand A might ask him why he persisted with Telfer!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Up in Edinburgh for the Fringe and just been sitting next to Jeremy Corbyn. An interesting show tomorrow with wee Gordon Strachan. Will be an interesting performance. If there is a Qand A might ask him why he persisted with Telfer!
And why Corbyn persisted with anti-Semitism?
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
So not enough to tell but some evidence not to proceed = an extremist nowadays?

I was talking about extremists blocking exploration and progression of potential solutions.

I understand everyone’s got views on what’s good or bad, sometimes I think we need to just consider the least worst options
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I was talking about extremists blocking exploration and progression of potential solutions.

I understand everyone’s got views on what’s good or bad, sometimes I think we need to just consider the least worst options
In this scenario the extremists as you call them just seem to be well informed of the facts. If anyone is an extremist it’s the people promoting it as a solution when it clearly isn’t.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
Up in Edinburgh for the Fringe and just been sitting next to Jeremy Corbyn. An interesting show tomorrow with wee Gordon Strachan. Will be an interesting performance. If there is a Qand A might ask him why he persisted with Telfer!
Always fancied the Fringe, but was put off by the price of accommodation.

Two questions.

a) Is it worth going?

b) Any tips for doing it on the cheap?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
I was talking about extremists blocking exploration and progression of potential solutions.

I understand everyone’s got views on what’s good or bad, sometimes I think we need to just consider the least worst options
Scientific evidence suggests that fracking is one of the worst options. It can cause earth tremors, makes ground unstable, can contaminate water supplies, cause all sorts of environmental pollution, produces methane which is worse than carbon dioxide, is still burning a fossil fuel so will produce CO2 as well and won't even give us much energy security as the available deposits are uncertain and aren't likely to last very long. The only people pushing it as a solution are those looking to make a fortune out of it. I think we can call them the extremists.

Did you watch the Big Oil vs the World programme? Basically the oil companies knew all this environmental shit they were causing but constantly kept saying data was inconclusive and that those campaigning and protesting were alarmists and extremists to protect their own money making. Many of those same players are heavily invested in fracking and we've now got the exact same scenario playing out again and I can't believe you'd fall for it.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Anything in particular this time, or just the general nonsense?
Tax tax tax .
The other stuff is not for now.
Lady named Dallas Lucas on news 24 this afternoon .
Sold all her furniture electric goods .living on cereal and water can't run a fridge for milk on UC edit:- £670 per month .
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Sunak saying he'd rather lose the leadership race doing the right thing than win on a false promise.

Well, that's odd, considering in the last week he's made policy proposals that he's never even hinted at before that seem to be right up the batshit mental Tory membership's street.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Oh, and at the same time had the nerve, after his Tunbridge video, to talk about a moral responsibility to support poorer households and Liz Truss' tax cuts would not help the needy.

The arrogance of it is just astounding!
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
And in other Tory news Chris Skidmore has defected from Team Rishi because he's concerned about Sunak's consistently changing position.

So now he's part of Team Liz. The same Liz who announced a policy to change civil servants pay with regard to the area they worked in and then retracted it hours later. The same Liz who backed Remain then became a Brexiteer. The anti-monarchist who now supports them. The woman who told Brits to fight in Ukraine, then told them not to.

It's utterly fucking embarrassing that they have absolutely no principles other than siding with the winner. If he'd said he was joining Truss because he expected her to win I'd at least have a modicum of respect for his honesty.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
He is however not wrong in either of those points.
Maybe not, but does he actually believe it? Or intend to actually do anything about it? He's clearly someone who has an extremely disparaging view of the poor and working class and thinks that their problems are all of their own making.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Maybe not, but does he actually believe it? Or intend to actually do anything about it? He's clearly someone who has an extremely disparaging view of the poor and working class and thinks that their problems are all of their own making.
Economically, some things he says are right. Inflation will kill this government, and us, tax cuts won't help those who don't pay tax, and also mean potentially job losses if we contract... although he appears to want to magic up 'efficiency savings' himself. Being compared to Gordon Brown is a compliment, although he probably doesn't see it that way 😉

The appalling immigration stance, the lurch to the right on social issues is deeply unpleasant, but he's also helpfully fine tuned the Labour Party's attack on the economy. He's not wrong, Truss is going to lead us into disaster.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Economically, some things he says are right. Inflation will kill this government, and us, tax cuts won't help those who don't pay tax, and also mean potentially job losses if we contract... although he appears to want to magic up 'efficiency savings' himself. Being compared to Gordon Brown is a compliment, although he probably doesn't see it that way 😉

The appalling immigration stance, the lurch to the right on social issues is deeply unpleasant, but he's also helpfully fine tuned the Labour Party's attack on the economy. He's not wrong, Truss is going to lead us into disaster.

A small point though, we all pay VAT.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Economically, some things he says are right. Inflation will kill this government, and us, tax cuts won't help those who don't pay tax, and also mean potentially job losses if we contract... although he appears to want to magic up 'efficiency savings' himself. Being compared to Gordon Brown is a compliment, although he probably doesn't see it that way 😉

The appalling immigration stance, the lurch to the right on social issues is deeply unpleasant, but he's also helpfully fine tuned the Labour Party's attack on the economy. He's not wrong, Truss is going to lead us into disaster.
Oh, I agree Truss will be an absolute car crash. Completely out of her depth and will make us a laughing stock. Even more so than Boris (and that takes some doing).

But from what I've seen I think Sunak's actual natural economic policy is around low tax, low spending. Despite what he's saying now I can definitely see him taking an austerity route if we do drop into recession. And he's been careful to not say he's against tax cuts. he's said he's against them right now. As soon as he could he'd be cutting tax rates under the somehow still prevailing idea that it stimulates growth.

So the fact that I see him as the better of the two candidates is very much a reflection of how we've scraped right through the bottom of the barrel and are now digging an ever deeper hole towards the bowels of the Earth.
 

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