Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

Grendel said:

says the person who claims this is a non story and macron frequently wears a hoodie

how did Starmer have his number?

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While there is a point about Starmer being a bit duplicitous in this it can pretty much be linked to politics (and as he's a politician that's to be expected). I've congratulated people on stuff like promotions etc. but felt that they didn't deserve it or had the right skills/temperament for it.

Lebedev is a newspaper owner and thus can have a big impact on public perception of Starmer, so the Labour PR people will be telling Starmer to keep Lebedev onside for this reason, even if he had misgivings. If Starmer's says how disgusted he is with it you can guarantee Lebedev's papers will be highly critical of Starmer and Labour in general.

In the current climate Starmer is now feeling confident enough to air those misgivings for political gain, but as usual for politicians doing this ends up looking a bit silly when something contradictory surfaces.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

While there is a point about Starmer being a bit duplicitous in this it can pretty much be linked to politics (and as he's a politician that's to be expected). I've congratulated people on stuff like promotions etc. but felt that they didn't deserve it or had the right skills/temperament for it.

Lebedev is a newspaper owner and thus can have a big impact on public perception of Starmer, so the Labour PR people will be telling Starmer to keep Lebedev onside for this reason, even if he had misgivings. If Starmer's says how disgusted he is with it you can guarantee Lebedev's papers will be highly critical of Starmer and Labour in general.

In the current climate Starmer is now feeling confident enough to air those misgivings for political gain, but as usual for politicians doing this ends up looking a bit silly when something contradictory surfaces.

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Fascinating so you are pretty much saying if Murdoch told Starmer what to do and when to do it he’d be his lapdog

Amazing

Grendel said:

well partly gate is a non story and Mr Starmer has that alone in two years at election time go for it

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It's not a non-story though. It's a cabinet openly ignoring the rules they put in place. One's that were put in for public health reasons, which makes it doubly despicable. If it's a non-story why were ordinary members of the public charged for incidents similar (and in many cases less serious) than this?

Grendel said:

johnson by the way is about as Tory as Starmer is traditional Labour. If Johnson really had his way he’d be a high spending liberal spunking money everywhere with zero regard for long term economic impact

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Johnson is obviously a Tory at heart. He only acts like a liberal and spunking money because it'll be seen as popular and thus good for his own image and in the polls, which is what he actually cares about. If he could get rid of welfare and not be unpopular, he would. If he could privatise the NHS so his mates and donors could make a packet - he would. If he could try and remove civil liberties and circumvent the law for his own purposes - he...has.

When your only real policy is more flags.

Grendel said:

well I think the thing that’s coming across is there isn’t a single positive quality or policy Starmer has or indeed a core principal

you can spit your childlike hatred and stupid comments all you like - the left are good at that and equally good and coming second in a two horse race

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He stands for decency and integrity I think

Sky Blue Pete said:

He stands for decency and integrity I think

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If he had any integrity he wouldn’t have jumped on the Stop Brexit bandwagon in 2019 after correctly stating in 2018 it would tear the Labour Party and it’s core vote apart.
Integrity my arse.

Ian1779 said:

If he had any integrity he wouldn’t have jumped on the Stop Brexit bandwagon in 2019 after correctly stating in 2018 it would tear the Labour Party and it’s core vote apart.
Integrity my arse.

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The labour party have been torn apart by Corbyn, the far left and anti-semitism. Even now, the far left would rather have a pop at labour than the Tories.

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stupot07 said:

The labour party have been torn apart by Corbyn, the far left and anti-semitism. Even now, the far left would rather have a pop at labour than the Tories.

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See what you did there… you’re basically insinuating I’m far left? Because I would like a bit of mild socialism? You’re one step away from saying the NHS is a communist endeavour.

Corbyn did more to attract voters to Labour than Starmer will ever manage. Starmer has driven away most of the youth vote, which last time I checked will be it’s future voting bloc.

Ian1779 said:

See what you did there… you’re basically insinuating I’m far left? Because I would like a bit of mild socialism? You’re one step away from saying the NHS is a communist endeavour.

Corbyn did more to attract voters to Labour than Starmer will ever manage. Starmer has driven away most of the youth vote, which last time I checked will be it’s future voting bloc.

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I'm not saying you are far left, but what I see on twitter and on the media is far left/socialists would rather bash Starmer than the tories, for example Rachel Swindon, Owen Jones, etc.



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stupot07 said:

I'm not saying you are far left, but what I see on twitter and on the media is far left/socialists would rather bash Starmer than the tories, for example Rachel Swindon, Owen Jones, etc.



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It’s not 1997 anymore. Starmer seems to be in some kind of delusion that he will swept into Downing St on a wave of Blairism 2.0 but the world has significantly changed. Those ‘far left’ are trying to tell him this as part of that critique but he is oblivious to it… seemingly intent on crushing the Labour campaigning and funding arm instead.
The world has changed, our country has changed thanks to Brexit, Cov-ID and environmental matters to name but a few. People won’t tolerate an ‘austerity lite’ program from his party. People want ideas, a vision of what the country they live in will be like and how it will meet the challenges of the next 10/20/50 years and he has nothing at all to offer.
Even now as people are being driven to despair by the cost of living crisis he has nothing tangible to say, to offer or to even comfort.

stupot07 said:

The labour party have been torn apart by Corbyn, the far left and anti-semitism. Even now, the far left would rather have a pop at labour than the Tories.

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Give it a rest you clown

Sky Blue Pete said:

He stands for decency and integrity I think

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Is this a joke?

Laughing and joking as they walk past Covid bereaved, not even giving them a glance. Great bunch of lads.

Ian1779 said:

It’s not 1997 anymore. Starmer seems to be in some kind of delusion that he will swept into Downing St on a wave of Blairism 2.0 but the world has significantly changed. Those ‘far left’ are trying to tell him this as part of that critique but he is oblivious to it… seemingly intent on crushing the Labour campaigning and funding arm instead.
The world has changed, our country has changed thanks to Brexit, Cov-ID and environmental matters to name but a few. People won’t tolerate an ‘austerity lite’ program from his party. People want ideas, a vision of what the country they live in will be like and how it will meet the challenges of the next 10/20/50 years and he has nothing at all to offer.
Even now as people are being driven to despair by the cost of living crisis he has nothing tangible to say, to offer or to even comfort.

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The world has changed, but is anyone really sure of where it's gone, or is heading? It's become increasingly polarised but it seems to surge from extreme to the other depending on where you are.

Despite some of the issues you mention, like environmental concerns, in many ways it feels like it's gone more to the right in the UK. Brexit can largely be seen as a right wing movement, talking of deregulation and freedom from the control of others, while others saw it more as a tool to prevent immigration. Despite falling living standards, cost increases outstripping those of wages, austerity having big economic effects including huge cuts in spending and services, tax increases we've had a Tory led government now for 12 years and yet would still inexplicably be seen by many as the more 'economically competent' party. That time in power included rejecting a 'leftie' twice, the second time by a landslide against an absolute buffoon with no policy. Even with the current lot looking not just incompetent but corrupt it's still looking uncertain, even unlikely, they'll be removed from office at GE, especially with the amount of time until the next GE for people to forget the shitshow. Even then the Tories will just pay lip service to 'leftie' concerns like environment and many will fall for it. With the current Ukraine invasion it's more likely to strengthen the right wing vote as people are fearful so resort to voting for who they perceive as strong on defence spending etc.

Now you can argue that the Torylite / Blairist position of the Labour Party is a problem, but can you honestly say that it would definitely be better under a 'leftie'? I can't. It might even be worse.

You say people want ideas/vision and won't accept austerity lite, but they're accepting it now. It's hardly free-spending and every noise from Sunak says he wants to head more down an austerity path and reduced spending, but it's not affecting the polls. When ideas and visions are put forward they're met with fear and a lack of belief they'll work, often helped by powerful media, organisations and individuals shouting it down. People naturally fear change, even when things as they are are shit. Even in the last months when our reliance on foreign oil has exposed how much we're hamstrung by that there hasn't been a massive outcry amongst the general public to take the opportunity to change tack to renewables.

In May I expect heavy Tory losses as it'll give them a bloody nose for the nonsense that has filled Boris' reign, but those people that tend to vote Tory know local elections are largely irrelevant to the bigger picture and so will be willing to temporarily 'defect' rather than 'abandon' the party and would still likely vote Tory if it were a GE.

stupot07 said:

I'm not saying you are far left, but what I see on twitter and on the media is far left/socialists would rather bash Starmer than the tories, for example Rachel Swindon, Owen Jones, etc.



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Owen Jones far left? Bloody hell.

Fair play, very brave.

PVA said:

Fair play, very brave.

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Very

Grendel said:

Starmer tries to take the moral high ground - now it’s revealed (something Mr Starmer has refused when questioned to admit) that he congratulated him on a peerage. No doubt he also backed Mr Corbyn on trying g to get a certain abusive dirty misogynistic creep elected as well as he tried to stop the democratic will of the people.

Mr Starmer is clearly not whiter than white despite attempts to portray him as such

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You are ridiculous. It’s as anodyne a message as you’re likely to see. Yet more desperate deflection and double standards from you. And you wonder why people don’t take you seriously

It's very brave, and I hope he gets support. I imagine there will be quite a few in the corridors of power who will be unsympathetic though.

Not sure how I feel about his fleeing the scene of his car crash, and I wonder if his experience will be used in looking at that law. No-one was hurt and he got fined, but I can't see it being an excuse that the police or courts would accept too readily.

It was incredibly brave of him and he should be lauded for not succumbing and outing the rapist. Statement should've ended there though. Using it to now claim it caused PTSD that would make him flee a car crash detracts from his earlier words ands is a bit cunty tbh.

shmmeee said:

And you wonder why people don’t take you seriously

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What is the point of PMQs, might as well scrap it because that useless twat doesn't answer a single question and just responds to everything with 'but Labour'. That's all he has. An absolute Grendel of a performance.

Wow he even mentioned the 1997 Labour manifesto.

He has nothing. Pathetic.

PVA said:

What is the point of PMQs, might as well scrap it because that useless twat doesn't answer a single question and just responds to everything with 'but Labour'. That's all he has. An absolute Grendel of a performance.

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Democracy - it’s what the public wants

Sky Blue Pete said:

Democracy - it’s what the public wants

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i doubt much if the public care about it’s - it’s just a bit of theatre

Grendel said:

i doubt much if the public care about it’s - it’s just a bit of theatre

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So why waste time with it?

Fuck sake

PVA said:

Fuck sake

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Wanker

PVA said:

Fuck sake

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Very poorly worded (typical Tory tact) but I guess he’s trying to say, how are we struggling to get genuine Ukrainian refugees through the system and into the country and yet we can’t stop illegal immigrants circumventing the system

PVA said:

Fuck sake

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are those right people those who was cars?

Grendel said:

are those right people those who was cars?

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Bit early to be on the sherry isn't it?

PVA said:

Fuck sake

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If the war in Ukraine has proven anything it has proven that there isn’t a legitimate route for asylum in the UK. The only choice is rubber boats for most asylum seekers, which probably also explains why the majority of people who arrive by rubber boat are successful in claiming asylum.

PVA said:

Bit early to be on the sherry isn't it?

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nice try

Oh and @PVA I am still waiting for your answers regarding those positive attributes regarding Mr Starmer and that USP of his.

Grendel said:

Oh and @PVA I am still waiting for your answers regarding those positive attributes regarding Mr Starmer and that USP of his.

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He's not Boris Johnson. There is no bigger USP for me.