Non AMP
Sky Blues Talk
  • Home
  • Forums
  • General Discussion
  • Off Topic Chat
This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
Forums New posts
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 181
  • 182
  • 183
  • 184
  • 185
  • …
  • 1501
Next
First Prev 183 of 1501 Next Last

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,371
Remember when we cut the overseas aid budget to look after our own. NHS staff? No not them. People dependant on benefits? No not them. Pensioners? No not them. Who exactly of our own are we looking after? Doesn’t seem to be the most valuable or vulnerable people in society. Still that VIP lane for cronies paid off. Maybe the best connected elite are our own.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and clint van damme

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,372
skybluetony176 said:
I think it’s worse than that isn’t it? Worst in the developed world I think.
Click to expand...
They were discussing pensions on Sky News the other day and someone referred to a study showing ours to be the third worst in the world behind only Brazil and South Africa. Remember thinking that can't possibly be right but maybe it is.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,373
shmmeee said:
The right tax is almost always a wealth tax. Especially for a service that’s for the elderly. They’ll never tax wealth.
Click to expand...

How would you implement it? The rich put that wealth in lots of different places and would argue that a lot of it isn't liquid so taxes on it would cause them cashflow issues (whether true or not).

We've got a diverse range of taxes to try and tax wealth via various sources (Income, sales, CGT, dividend, interest, inheritance, import etc) so whether they save it, spend it or whatever it's fair share goes towards helping society overall but they rely on money moving around in some form or another. If they just sit on it it can't be touched. So how do you measure that wealth that is being sat on?

How would you tax someone who owned a Da Vinci for example? Would it be taxed on the value it was bought at? Would it have to be revalued periodically?
What if Banksy did a piece on the wall of your property?
How would you keep track of everything everyone owned and what they were worth? Rely on everyone telling the truth?
Would you force the sale of things like property/land/shares/art if they could not pay the wealth tax on the value of those assets? IMO that'd be more likely to affect the middle class and you'd end up with a lot more property and land ending up in the hands of the wealthy who would likely be more cash rich and able to pay.
If you set a tax whereby a percentage of the balance in a bank account is taken each year then people will just stop keeping money in them. You'd probably have to work it out on a daily basis or people would just move the money/take it out on the day the tax is calculated then put it all back in the day after.

Even if you figure all that out and manage to implement it how do you stop people hiding their wealth offshore or in trusts/charities?

Although not a solution perhaps one thing that could be of use is to add in a sliding scale like we have for income tax into sales tax, so the rich who are likely buying more expensive items pay a larger amount (property would need consideration or possibly exemption). So for example items up to £100 = 10%, £1000 = 20%, £10k = 30%, £100k = 40%, £1m+ = 50%. But even that wouldn't tap into much of the wealth and the truly wealthy could source the most expensive items abroad to avoid the tax in exchange for import tax, unless you did the same with that.

Wealth tax would be the best way but I don't see how to make it work without the rich finding some way to avoid it. Hence why it's never been implemented.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,374
Not sure if its politics , but when the fuck are we going to scrap our strict school uniform policy over here that is making struggling families struggle even more .

It's ridiculous.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Ian1779, jimmyhillsfanclub and 2 others

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,375
Also


What the actual fuck are these petrol prices

1.36 I paid today
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,376
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
How would you implement it? The rich put that wealth in lots of different places and would argue that a lot of it isn't liquid so taxes on it would cause them cashflow issues (whether true or not).

We've got a diverse range of taxes to try and tax wealth via various sources (Income, sales, CGT, dividend, interest, inheritance, import etc) so whether they save it, spend it or whatever it's fair share goes towards helping society overall but they rely on money moving around in some form or another. If they just sit on it it can't be touched. So how do you measure that wealth that is being sat on?

How would you tax someone who owned a Da Vinci for example? Would it be taxed on the value it was bought at? Would it have to be revalued periodically?
What if Banksy did a piece on the wall of your property?
How would you keep track of everything everyone owned and what they were worth? Rely on everyone telling the truth?
Would you force the sale of things like property/land/shares/art if they could not pay the wealth tax on the value of those assets? IMO that'd be more likely to affect the middle class and you'd end up with a lot more property and land ending up in the hands of the wealthy who would likely be more cash rich and able to pay.
If you set a tax whereby a percentage of the balance in a bank account is taken each year then people will just stop keeping money in them. You'd probably have to work it out on a daily basis or people would just move the money/take it out on the day the tax is calculated then put it all back in the day after.

Even if you figure all that out and manage to implement it how do you stop people hiding their wealth offshore or in trusts/charities?

Although not a solution perhaps one thing that could be of use is to add in a sliding scale like we have for income tax into sales tax, so the rich who are likely buying more expensive items pay a larger amount (property would need consideration or possibly exemption). So for example items up to £100 = 10%, £1000 = 20%, £10k = 30%, £100k = 40%, £1m+ = 50%. But even that wouldn't tap into much of the wealth and the truly wealthy could source the most expensive items abroad to avoid the tax in exchange for import tax, unless you did the same with that.

Wealth tax would be the best way but I don't see how to make it work without the rich finding some way to avoid it. Hence why it's never been implemented.
Click to expand...

Start with land and stocks, work from there.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,377
Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't actually mind them putting up taxes to pay for services. Am not convinced they've picked the right tax to put up, however...
Click to expand...
They do not need to put up taxes to pay for anything. How do taxes pay for services already delivered?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,378
fernandopartridge said:
They do not need to put up taxes to pay for anything. How do taxes pay for services already delivered?
Click to expand...
They do, ultimately. Else we end up Zimbabwe.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,379
Evo1883 said:
Also


What the actual fuck are these petrol prices

1.36 I paid today
Click to expand...
I think fuel duty is set to go up as part of the budget. Certainly rumoured.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,380
skybluetony176 said:
I think fuel duty is set to go up as part of the budget. Certainly rumoured.
Click to expand...
Crazy prices
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,381
Anything that goes against a manifesto promise should automatically trigger a general election.

The argument against is that the situation has changed but if it's changed that much then we should have the opportunity to say how we want our government to tackle it.

Tories would still win of course but it makes it more democratic than puling the old Clegg at any opportunity.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,382
Evo1883 said:
Also


What the actual fuck are these petrol prices

1.36 I paid today
Click to expand...

Yep...the cheeky fuckers.....its over £100 to fll up my van now.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,383
Deleted member 5849 said:
They do, ultimately. Else we end up Zimbabwe.
Click to expand...

Sorry, that's nonsense.

I would recommend you read the Deficit Myth
 
Reactions: Ian1779
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,384
fernandopartridge said:
Sorry, that's nonsense.
Click to expand...
It really isn't! What's nonsense is assuming in the current system, you can pay for whatever you feel like without taxation.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,385
Deleted member 5849 said:
It really isn't! What's nonsense is assuming in the current system, you can pay for whatever you feel like without taxation.
Click to expand...

The government creates via the Bank of England the money, it does not need tax to do that. Taxes have other functions but they do not fund public spending.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,386
fernandopartridge said:
The government creates via the Bank of England the money, it does not need tax to do that. Taxes have other functions but they do not fund public spending.
Click to expand...
Well... they do. I just read the prelude to the book you recommended. There's a very big difference between not being scared of a budget deficit, and letting a deficit be whatever you want it to be.
 
Reactions: skybluegod and CCFCSteve

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,387
Liquid Gold said:
Anything that goes against a manifesto promise should automatically trigger a general election.

The argument against is that the situation has changed but if it's changed that much then we should have the opportunity to say how we want our government to tackle it.

Tories would still win of course but it makes it more democratic than puling the old Clegg at any opportunity.
Click to expand...

Manifesto's would change to be even more vague and carefully worded so as to not fall foul of it.

Things like
'we do not intend to raise taxes'
'we will not raise taxes immediately'
'pensions will have increased by the end of the parliament'
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,388
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Manifesto's would change to be even more vague and carefully worded so as to not fall foul of it.

Things like
'we do not intend to raise taxes'
'we will not raise taxes immediately'
'pensions will have increased by the end of the parliament'
Click to expand...
At that would provide an opportunity for another party to pledge and promise stuff and call the other out on being non-comital and wanting to swindle the country
 
Reactions: clint van damme

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,389
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well... they do. I just read the prelude to the book you recommended. There's a very big difference between not being scared of a budget deficit, and letting a deficit be whatever you want it to be.
Click to expand...

They do not. The treasury doesn't get on the phone to HMRC to ask them to transfer across tax receipts before issuing a department with a budget.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,390
Evo1883 said:
Not sure if its politics , but when the fuck are we going to scrap our strict school uniform policy over here that is making struggling families struggle even more .

It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I thought quite a few schools didn't have uniforms now?

The argument is that it makes everyone equal. What you're wearing becomes another potential bullying tool. Kids being made fun of because they don't have the £100 trainers or the right brands. Puts even more pressure on parents to get that stuff because the kids want to fit in, or at least not be teased.

It's an extra expense on top of normal clothing though. Ideally they'd be provided by the school for free (or at least heavily subsidised) if it were considered that important. In these days of be whoever you want to be I'm surprised someone hasn't challenged uniforms as a restriction of freedom of self expression.

If every school wore the same colour trousers/jumpers/blazers etc and only the badge and tie changed they should be able to be mass produced cheaply but if it was done via a centralised contract undoubtedly some mate of a minister's company would get it and each pair of trousers would end up costing £100.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,391
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I thought quite a few schools didn't have uniforms now?

The argument is that it makes everyone equal. What you're wearing becomes another potential bullying tool. Kids being made fun of because they don't have the £100 trainers or the right brands. Puts even more pressure on parents to get that stuff because the kids want to fit in, or at least not be teased.

It's an extra expense on top of normal clothing though. Ideally they'd be provided by the school for free (or at least heavily subsidised) if it were considered that important. In these days of be whoever you want to be I'm surprised someone hasn't challenged uniforms as a restriction of freedom of self expression.

If every school wore the same colour trousers/jumpers/blazers etc and only the badge and tie changed they should be able to be mass produced cheaply but if it was done via a centralised contract undoubtedly some mate of a minister's company would get it and each pair of trousers would end up costing £100.
Click to expand...

It’s nonsense though isn’t it. Every uniformed school I’ve been at every kid knew who the rich and poor kids were and were never short of things to bully each other about.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,392
Liquid Gold said:
At that would provide an opportunity for another party to pledge and promise stuff and call the other out on being non-comital and wanting to swindle the country
Click to expand...

Maybe. But I still reckon they'd give themselves as much leeway and wriggle room as possible. You'd just set every target over the course of the parliament to render the entire thing null and void.

One thing that I think would be useful is that after parliament has been dissolved for the GE every household should be sent a leaflet listing the outgoing parliament's manifesto promises and whether they've been kept or not, like an end of term report. Would make them loath to break any as it would be fresh in the minds of the electorate at the ballot box.

You'd have thought that maybe the opposition would do it already, but I imagine it'd be a bit expensive and if it had Labour/Conservatives written on supporters of the other party would just ignore it.
 

richnrg

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,393
Evo1883 said:
Also


What the actual fuck are these petrol prices

1.36 I paid today
Click to expand...
The price of a gallon of petrol doesn't affect me, as I alway put a tenners worth in each time.
 
Reactions: Evo1883, hill83 and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,394
shmmeee said:
It’s nonsense though isn’t it. Every uniformed school I’ve been at every kid knew who the rich and poor kids were and were never short of things to bully each other about.
Click to expand...

Yeah, at school it was pretty clear who were the haves and have nots.

Thing is with your own clothes if you wear something decent someone may well try and nick it. When I was at school a kid came into school once with a brand new pair of Air Jordan's cos he wanted to show off. Someone jumped him on the way home and nicked them.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,395
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Yeah, at school it was pretty clear who were the haves and have nots.

Thing is with your own clothes if you wear something decent someone may well try and nick it. When I was at school a kid came into school once with a brand new pair of Air Jordan's cos he wanted to show off. Someone jumped him on the way home and nicked them.
Click to expand...

Thats going to happen wherever they are thiugh. Every kid brings £500+ of electronics with them these days.

Im actually a fan of uniform generally but the new “buy this specific overpriced thing from one specific store” can get bent.

I’ve said before but my ideal system would have three schools: primary (Y1-5), middle (6-9) and secondary (10-13) and I feel then you could do away with uniform in secondary.
 
Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
Reactions: SBAndy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,396
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I thought quite a few schools didn't have uniforms now?

The argument is that it makes everyone equal. What you're wearing becomes another potential bullying tool. Kids being made fun of because they don't have the £100 trainers or the right brands. Puts even more pressure on parents to get that stuff because the kids want to fit in, or at least not be teased.

It's an extra expense on top of normal clothing though. Ideally they'd be provided by the school for free (or at least heavily subsidised) if it were considered that important. In these days of be whoever you want to be I'm surprised someone hasn't challenged uniforms as a restriction of freedom of self expression.

If every school wore the same colour trousers/jumpers/blazers etc and only the badge and tie changed they should be able to be mass produced cheaply but if it was done via a centralised contract undoubtedly some mate of a minister's company would get it and each pair of trousers would end up costing £100.
Click to expand...
Schools should have standard blazers, shirts trousers etc along with PE kit. If they want personalised badges or embroidery, the school should cover the cost.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Evo1883

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,397
shmmeee said:
Thats going to happen wherever they are thiugh. Every kid brings £500+ of electronics with them these days.

Im actually a fan of uniform generally but the new “buy this specific overpriced thing from one specific store” can get bent.

I’ve said before but my ideal system would have three schools: primary (Y1-5), middle (6-9) and secondary (10-13) and I feel then you could do away with uniform in secondary.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely about the having to buy from specific suppliers. Another way private enterprise and a profit motive has worked its way into public services.

Although it was all on one site my primary was 'split' into infants (R,1,2,3) then juniors (4,5,6) but I think yours probably makes more sense, especially now education goes up to Y13.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 6, 2021
  • #6,398
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I agree entirely about the having to buy from specific suppliers. Another way private enterprise and a profit motive has worked its way into public services.

Although it was all on one site my primary was 'split' into infants (R,1,2,3) then juniors (4,5,6) but I think yours probably makes more sense, especially now education goes up to Y13.
Click to expand...

I just think Y6 is too old for primary and Y7/8 too young for secondary. Y9 is a difficult one as a bit of a transition year but when I’ve seen it in Leicestershire it stops them growing up too quickly and acting like 18 year olds when they’re 13.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,399
The tories in coventry have tabled a motion to privatise the waste collection .

Labour are to vote against it

Memo we got today
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,400
Evo1883 said:
The tories in coventry have tabled a motion to privatise the waste collection .

Labour are to vote against it

Memo we got today
Click to expand...

Crass opportunism after all the issues with COVID and stuff affecting collections IMO.
 
Reactions: AOM, stupot07 and Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,401
shmmeee said:
Crass opportunism after all the issues with COVID and stuff affecting collections IMO.
Click to expand...
Wankers mate
 
Reactions: AOM, stupot07, Deleted member 5849 and 1 other person
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,402
fernandopartridge said:
They do not. The treasury doesn't get on the phone to HMRC to ask them to transfer across tax receipts before issuing a department with a budget.
Click to expand...
Nor is it rational to just print whatever cash it wants.

Seriously, it's absolutely crazy to assume you can just devalue your currency by printing what you feel like, in a global economy. If you're suggesting the treasury just pluck a figure out of the air when setting a budget, then that is absolute madness too (well, tbf maybe not under this lot!). There are enough examples of that failing spectacularly to show it's naive at best, totally irresponsible at worst.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,403
Deleted member 5849 said:
Nor is it rational to just print whatever cash it wants.

Seriously, it's absolutely crazy to assume you can just devalue your currency by printing what you feel like, in a global economy. If you're suggesting the treasury just pluck a figure out of the air when setting a budget, then that is absolute madness too (well, tbf maybe not under this lot!). There are enough examples of that failing spectacularly to show it's naive at best, totally irresponsible at worst.
Click to expand...

For somebody who purports to be a bit of a thinker, you're not reading what I am saying. I am saying that public spending is not dependent on tax income. Your post agrees with that. I haven't said that it means the government should just print money.

Tax has a function but it is not to fund public spending. As I've said, read the book I've mentioned and open your mind a little.
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,404
Finally something interesting in polictics

The Labour minister for climate change, Juliet James, is the sister of the Aphex Twin
 
Reactions: wingy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2021
  • #6,405
COV said:
Finally something interesting in polictics

The Labour minister for climate change, Juliet James, is the sister of the Aphex Twin
Click to expand...

I saw this. This is the kind of politics that will get Labour back in government. Cool Britannia 2.0
 
Reactions: COV
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 181
  • 182
  • 183
  • 184
  • 185
  • …
  • 1501
Next
First Prev 183 of 1501 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Gynnsthetonic9 minutes ago
  • StrettoBoy11 minutes ago
  • ... and 1 more.
  • Total: 15 (members: 3, guests: 12)
    Share:
    Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email
    • Home
    • Forums
    • General Discussion
    • Off Topic Chat
    • Default Style
    • Contact us
    • Terms and rules
    • Privacy policy
    • Help
    • Home
    Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2021 XenForo Ltd.
    Menu
    Log in

    Register

    • Home
    • Forums
      • New posts
      • Search forums
    • What's new
      • New posts
      • Latest activity
    • Members
      • Current visitors
    • Donate to the Season Ticket Fund
    X

    Privacy & Transparency

    We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

    • Personalized ads and content
    • Content measurement and audience insights

    Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

    X

    Privacy & Transparency

    We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

    • Personalized ads and content
    • Content measurement and audience insights

    Do you accept cookies and these technologies?