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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:39 PM
  • #61,566
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Of course it's because we're paying young people a pittance rather than peanuts that is the reason that there's no jobs. And business taxes disincentivising business. if only there was something that shows that the richest people have been getting richer and that large companies have been making bigger profits than ever before to show this to be horseshit.

There's plenty of money being made. Is just not being shared out equitably.
Click to expand...

Over 60% of people work for SME’s
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:47 PM
  • #61,567
Grendel said:
Over 60% of people work for SME’s
Click to expand...

I was just about to say the same. Some just don't understand that most business owners aren’t millionaires and many earn fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I’ve known plenty that carried on paying their employees whilst not taking a salary themselves and investing more in the business to keep it afloat.

They also don’t seem to understand that if you increase youth minimum wage by 30%* in two years whilst also increasing emp’ers NIC and bringing down the starting threshold to £5k (from £9k) you are going to impact employment especially youth employment, many of whom are part time.


*i want people and those younger generation to be paid as much as possible but this is the real world
 
Last edited: Yesterday at 1:53 PM
Reactions: wingy and Grendel

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:48 PM
  • #61,568
Grendel said:
Over 60% of people work for SME’s
Click to expand...
And who are the people that shit all over the SME's whenever it suits them? Big business.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:48 PM
  • #61,569
CCFCSteve said:
I was just about to say the same. Some just don't understand that most business owners aren’t all millionaires, many earn fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I’ve known plenty that carried in paying their employees whilst not taking a salary themselves and investing more in the business to keep it afloat.

They also don’t seem to understand that if you increase youth minimum wage by 30%* in two years whilst also increasing emp’ers NIC and bringing down the starting threshold to £5k (from £9k) you are going to impact employment especially youth employment, many of whom are part time.


*i want people and those younger generation to be paid as much as possible but this is the real world
Click to expand...

Exactly - he’s clueless - I’m sure he never leaves his house
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:50 PM
  • #61,570
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
And who are the people that shit all over the SME's whenever it suits them? Big business.
Click to expand...

What are you on about? What’s your idea? Nationalise big businesses? Without these businesses the one I now run would have been bankrupt years ago. Clueless. What do you actually do for a living?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:50 PM
  • #61,571
CCFCSteve said:
They can’t afford to get on the housing ladder due to the fact that population has grown rapidly and house building hasn’t kept up, jobs market has been damaged with increased business taxes/rapid increase in youth minimum wage and goverment is currently removing incentive for people working hard and do well for themselves
Click to expand...

Currently? The student loan system has been doing it for years, it just so happens that it has now surfaced as some journalists are affected by it.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:55 PM
  • #61,572
fernandopartridge said:
Currently? The student loan system has been doing it for years, it just so happens that it has now surfaced as some journalists are affected by it.
Click to expand...

Don’t get me started on student loans. The whole system is a mess

When I said ‘currently removing incentive’ I wasn’t talking about student loans though, I’m talking about younger people/families that get to higher rate tax band
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:56 PM
  • #61,573
CCFCSteve said:
I was just about to say the same. Some just don't understand that most business owners aren’t millionaires and many earn fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I’ve known plenty that carried on paying their employees whilst not taking a salary themselves and investing more in the business to keep it afloat.

They also don’t seem to understand that if you increase youth minimum wage by 30%* in two years whilst also increasing emp’ers NIC and bringing down the starting threshold to £5k (from £9k) you are going to impact employment especially youth employment, many of whom are part time.


*i want people and those younger generation to be paid as much as possible but this is the real world
Click to expand...

The increase in minimum wage just means the 18 - 24 bracket are becoming less employable compared to experienced people
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 1:56 PM
  • #61,574
Labour is absolutely no different from the coalition and predecessor Tory governments on housebuilding. They are fundamentally wedded to the idea that the market will serve when it has shown that it will not. The government needs to directly commission housebuilding, not try to facilitate it through watering down planning policies. All that leads to is further land value inflation.
 
Reactions: LarryGrayson and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 2:02 PM
  • #61,575
CCFCSteve said:
I was just about to say the same. Some just don't understand that most business owners aren’t millionaires and many earn fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I’ve known plenty that carried on paying their employees whilst not taking a salary themselves and investing more in the business to keep it afloat.

They also don’t seem to understand that if you increase youth minimum wage by 30%* in two years whilst also increasing emp’ers NIC and bringing down the starting threshold to £5k (from £9k) you are going to impact employment especially youth employment, many of whom are part time.


*i want people and those younger generation to be paid as much as possible but this is the real world
Click to expand...
I really don't get people who don't grasp smes. It's like they think everybody works for a faceless billionaire.

Same as with the national insurance rises "well if they can't afford it they shouldn't be in business".

They think every employer is a Tesco or Amazon.
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE and Grendel
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:15 PM
  • #61,576
fernandopartridge said:
Labour is absolutely no different from the coalition and predecessor Tory governments on housebuilding. They are fundamentally wedded to the idea that the market will serve when it has shown that it will not. The government needs to directly commission housebuilding, not try to facilitate it through watering down planning policies. All that leads to is further land value inflation.
Click to expand...

They haven’t even sorted the planning. Whatever they’ve done so far (directly relating to house building and indirectly) has seen the worse house building start numbers for years (decades in some areas).

God knows why we haven’t seen far greater numbers of social housing built especially at a time when we have seen massive population growth and a social housing sell off. Ridiculous
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:17 PM
  • #61,577
CCFCSteve said:
I was just about to say the same. Some just don't understand that most business owners aren’t millionaires and many earn fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I’ve known plenty that carried on paying their employees whilst not taking a salary themselves and investing more in the business to keep it afloat.

They also don’t seem to understand that if you increase youth minimum wage by 30%* in two years whilst also increasing emp’ers NIC and bringing down the starting threshold to £5k (from £9k) you are going to impact employment especially youth employment, many of whom are part time.


*i want people and those younger generation to be paid as much as possible but this is the real world
Click to expand...
The comments are in relation to the idea of young people wanting to leave the country being a recent phemonenon brought on by the nasty Labour government and not off the back of 14 years+ of managed decline and worsening prospects.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:22 PM
  • #61,578
CCFCSteve said:
I’ve been trying to flag the housing issue for the younger generation for years. I’ve also said that the government deserves more time, whilst the signs aren’t great it’s still relatively early days. Its many on the ideological left that want the government/ Starmer out now even though they have only been bringing in the policies many of them wanted, it’s bizarre.

Just to be clear I also believe the Tories were an absolute shambles in the final years of government
Click to expand...
No thanks, Labour are a shit show.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:26 PM
  • #61,579
CCFCSteve said:
They haven’t even sorted the planning. Whatever they’ve done so far (directly relating to house building and indirectly) has seen the worse house building start numbers for years (decades in some areas).

God knows why we haven’t seen far greater numbers of social housing built especially at a time when we have seen massive population growth and a social housing sell off. Ridiculous
Click to expand...
It's well evidenced and documented that housebuilders very carefully manage the supply of housing to maintain prices. They are not going to even with planning flood the market with housing.

I think what we're seeing is the consequence of winning an election by default.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:42 PM
  • #61,580
What an utterly cringe worthy empty vessel this man is

 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:44 PM
  • #61,581
Nick said:
I really don't get people who don't grasp smes. It's like they think everybody works for a faceless billionaire.

Same as with the national insurance rises "well if they can't afford it they shouldn't be in business".

They think every employer is a Tesco or Amazon.
Click to expand...
I used to work for small accountancy firms and spent every day dealing with owner's of SME's from loads of different business sectors and putting together their accounts. Vast majority were doing alright for themselves. Not rich, but well off and far better than if they'd just got a normal job. Quite a few ran a number of small companies, allowing them to benefit from numerous tax allowances etc., rather than running it all under one. Running an SME is a very time consuming task, so if they're not making money from it why go through all that stress and instead just get a normal job with a steady wage? Because they wouldn't be better off. No-one forces people to run a small business as their means of income.

And low, or even no, business tax and reducing minimum wage for smaller enterprises has been tried in places like America cos of the mantra of job creation and businesses/employers being wealth/job creators. It led to no extra job creation, wages went down and just led to the business owners pocketing the amount that would previously have been paid in tax or wages. Resulting in the local authority going bankrupt, while local employees now needed extra help because they were being paid less but saw that help being axed due to lack of funding. Whenever this shit is tried in real world situations it just makes things worse.

Why should someone who owns a business get more sympathy than someone who works for a small business? Seemingly if you're an employer you deserve help but if you're an employee tough shit.

Ask yourself if you worked for an SME and they said they couldn't afford to pay you a living wage and stay in business, so your choice is either a job paying a pittance or no job at all, would your response be:
a) "ok, I'll get paid a wage I can't live on" or
b)"fuck that, I'll go find a job with someone who can pay me a wage I can live on"?

If your answer is a, get some self respect. If your answer is b, why should anyone else accept it if you wouldn't?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 2:46 PM
  • #61,582
fernandopartridge said:
What an utterly cringe worthy empty vessel this man is

Click to expand...
It's very trump
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:51 PM
  • #61,583
fernandopartridge said:
What an utterly cringe worthy empty vessel this man is

Click to expand...

The problem is that you have got people advising him that this is a good idea. It just goes to show how clueless and out of touch those in charge are. The video looks like a budget version of that Borat character 'The Dictator' and one of his cut scenes.
 
Reactions: Mcbean, fernandopartridge and Sky Blue Pete

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:52 PM
  • #61,584
fernandopartridge said:
What an utterly cringe worthy empty vessel this man is

Click to expand...
Bad ass, Hell yeah!!
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 3:00 PM
  • #61,585
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The problem is that you have got people advising him that this is a good idea. It just goes to show how clueless and out of touch those in charge are. The video looks like a budget version of that Borat character 'The Dictator' and one of his cut scenes.
Click to expand...
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 3:01 PM
  • #61,586
CCFCSteve said:
I was just about to say the same. Some just don't understand that most business owners aren’t millionaires and many earn fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I’ve known plenty that carried on paying their employees whilst not taking a salary themselves and investing more in the business to keep it afloat.
Click to expand...
I suspect most people go off their own experience with their employers. A lot of us will currently or have previously worked for SMEs. I've spent the last 20 ish years working for and with SMEs and have seen very little evidence of the owners of the business struggling.

At my current place there's two owners. One lives in a mansion in the country, the other is in the process of moving to a new place costing 7 figures. Both arrive to the office in different cars on a regular basis. Meanwhile the people working for them cancelled a planned meal out after work recently because half the office couldn't afford it.

I've also seen staff let go, or more often not replaced, despite an increasing workload. A prevailing attitude at the top of you're lucky to have a job and therefore can just take on the extra workload. Positions filled by experienced staff have been replaced by government subsidised apprentices.

People will go off what they see and they see themselves having an ever smaller piece of the pie while those at the top seemingly get a greater share and tell us there's no money.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 3:02 PM
  • #61,587
fernandopartridge said:
What an utterly cringe worthy empty vessel this man is

Click to expand...
Look on the bright side. Its not the AI slop that the official White House account puts out.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 3:04 PM
  • #61,588
chiefdave said:
Look on the bright side. Its not the AI slop that the official White House account puts out.
Click to expand...
Which means someone is actually being paid to produce this nonsense.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 3:04 PM
  • #61,589
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Which means someone is actually being paid to produce this nonsense.
Click to expand...
Hopefully its someone who is taking the piss and they don't actually think this is good
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 3:07 PM
  • #61,590
chiefdave said:
Hopefully its someone who is taking the piss and they don't actually think this is good
Click to expand...
Starmer's YouTube channel is full of this shite.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 5:34 PM
  • #61,591
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
And who are the people that shit all over the SME's whenever it suits them? Big business.
Click to expand...
This Labour government is doing it. The rises in NI & Business Rates are a death knell for many smaller businesses.
 
Reactions: Mcbean and Grendel

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:49 PM
  • #61,592
Captain Dart said:
This Labour government is doing it. The rises in NI & Business Rates are a death knell for many smaller businesses.
Click to expand...
And if the big businesses and rich people didn't avoid as much tax, we could lower taxes and rates for smaller businesses so they were less of a burden on them or give them support with grants etc.. But don't worry, you just keep on believing the rich when they tell you it's everyone else's fault and they're the good guys creating the wealth and jobs.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:01 PM
  • #61,593
Captain Dart said:
This Labour government is doing it. The rises in NI & Business Rates are a death knell for many smaller businesses.
Click to expand...
I don’t think many people support that, myself included. There’s a misconception that progressives support higher taxes regardless of who they’re on.
 
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