Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes - traditional union ideology opposes wholesale migration for obvious reasons
There’s a terrible irony here…
Proud of trade union activism yet continues to support mass migration of low income, unskilled workers from outside the EU/EEA.
The traditions of the trade union movement was hostile to low wage immigration because it undercuts their raison d’etre. Something the modern day trade union movement hasn’t cottoned on to yet.
Is that what he supports?There’s a terrible irony here…
Proud of trade union activism yet continues to support mass migration of low income, unskilled workers from outside the EU/EEA.
The traditions of the trade union movement was hostile to low wage immigration because it undercuts their raison d’etre. Something the modern day trade union movement hasn’t cottoned on to yet.
Tight regulation of the labour market pushes up wages.Yes - traditional union ideology opposes wholesale migration for obvious reasons
Well, @Sky Blue Pete thinks anyone who considers voters wanting to reduce immigration as being mislead. Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s how understand your sentiments.Is that what he supports?
I don't remember him saying that and more broadly I haven't seen anyone here arguing for 'let everyone in' immigration.Well, @Sky Blue Pete thinks anyone who considers voters wanting to reduce immigration as being mislead. Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s how understand your sentiments.
I don't remember him saying that and more broadly I haven't seen anyone here arguing for 'let everyone in' immigration.
I'm not being funny but I genuinely can't parse the second sentence.
No, that's the thing. You and others consistently say "no one wants 'open borders'" but baulk at any policies designed to restrict immigration, ask 'what would you restrict?' or dismiss it as a secondary issue altogether.I don't remember him saying that and more broadly I haven't seen anyone here arguing for 'let everyone in' immigration.
I'm not being funny but I genuinely can't parse the second sentence.
Ultimately unions aren't perfect, no argument there. I got funny looks for suggesting that perhaps a group trip to Gaza wasn't the best use of members' subscription fees more than once.I guess the irony is that Pete constantly babbles on about Nigel, Tommy and Richard or whoever but the irony is back when Unions were at the strongest the liked of Dereck, Jack, Hugh and Anthony (call me Tony) sang from the same hymn sheet.
I’m
No, that's the thing. You and others consistently say "no one wants 'open borders'" but baulk at any policies designed to restrict immigration, ask 'what would you restrict?' or dismiss it as a secondary issue altogether.
I remember bullet pointing areas where immigration directly influences the cost of living and instead of responding, you reacted with ''. That is fine but this what the political right is picking up on and the political left is not and they're being punished for it outside of the urban middle-classes.
What do you mean I can’t understand sorryI guess the irony is that Pete constantly babbles on about Nigel, Tommy and Richard or whoever but the irony is back when Unions were at the strongest the liked of Dereck, Jack, Hugh and Anthony (call me Tony) sang from the same hymn sheet.
There’s a lot to unpack there
Tony Blair did a lot of good when in power. Huge investment in education and the nhs including lots of modernisation. Think his thinking became messianic and that hasn’t changed and his decision to get involved in the Iraq war misusing intelligence was disastrous and criminal
I don’t think we should be bringing in migrants in the current numbers to do lower paid work in the caring profession. I think the initial freedom of movement within the eu was working to some extent and despite Brexit promising otherwise once on that trajectory it isn’t a surprise that we find ourselves in a worse position outside of that European Union than we would have been inside. Who is to blame for that is an interesting question
Farage and tice are one trick ponies. They’re not interested in actual answers to anything. They want to show us who is to blame for our ills and make us fear them. They pretend there are easy answers when they’re just aren’t but as human beings we’ll fall for that every time history is clear
I baulk at the smearing of whole nationalities and demographics yes. But I have been consistent in saying that reliance on foreign labour is bad for the country. All along I have also pointed to Scandinavian countries as the model for how I'd like us to do things in this country, which have struck a balance between being business friendly while also respecting people's work life balance and providing hands up to people through social programs.I’m
No, that's the thing. You and others consistently say "no one wants 'open borders'" but baulk at any policies designed to restrict immigration, ask 'what would you restrict?' or dismiss it as a secondary issue altogether.
I remember bullet pointing areas where immigration directly influences the cost of living and instead of responding, you reacted with ''. That is fine but this what the political right is picking up on and the political left is not and they're being punished for it outside of the urban middle-classes.
How many union leaders have come through the ranks as opposed to being professional activists?Ultimately unions aren't perfect, no argument there. I got funny looks for suggesting that perhaps a group trip to Gaza wasn't the best use of members' subscription fees more than once.
What do you mean I can’t understand sorry
Somebody "coming through the ranks" is a professional activist. How many do you think have not "come through the ranks"?How many union leaders have come through the ranks as opposed to being professional activists?
The people who rise to the top of teachers' unions more often than not began as classroom teachers. The union I was a rep for was quite keen to progress me and other 'young' reps up the ladder before I left the profession.How many union leaders have come through the ranks as opposed to being professional activists?
The people who rise to the top of teachers' unions more often than not began as classroom teachers. The union I was a rep for was quite keen to progress me and other 'young' reps up the ladder before I left the profession.
The biggest problem in my experience was some people mixing up what the union is (in my view) there for with wider left wing activism. The feedback I consistently got from my colleagues and the conclusion I came to as well is that unions should not be spending money on anything other than trying to better things for their members. Jaunts to Calais, Gaza and anti nuclear power demonstrations are nowhere near that.
NASUWT has been a mess for a long time. That Jonathan Gullis was once a rep for them should say everything.Democracy in action!
Teachers’ union elects former FBU general secretary on turnout below 5%
Former leader of Fire Brigades Union secured 5,249 votes against Neil Butler after legal challenge to executive’s earlier decisionwww.theguardian.com
Poorly worded question. How many leaders have actually worked as teachers, firefighters, doctors (and so on) who lead these unions rather than just getting a job at a union and rising through the ranks there.Somebody "coming through the ranks" is a professional activist. How many do you think have not "come through the ranks"?
Also as someone who has actually taken part in salary negotiations as a union rep, the idea that your goal is to rinse the employer to get wages as high as possible is a bit far from the truth. The employer shares their financial data with you in confidence, you look at that and see for yourself what is and is not a realistic negotiating position. Your goal is clearly not to send your own employer into oblivion.
When I first started out my colleagues joked about which colour paint I wanted the target on my back to be, after a few years of doing it SMT had a much healthier relationship with the staff body despite a period of that being during the national strikes. It does not need to be an adversarial relationship.
If you look through the history of the NEU/NUT, most of the leaders had worked as classroom teachers. The current NEU secretary had taught in both primary and secondary.Poorly worded question. How many leaders have actually worked as teachers, firefighters, doctors (and so on) who lead these unions rather than just getting a job at a union and rising through the ranks there.
No, in our MAT.
You tell me, you're the one claiming that they haven'tPoorly worded question. How many leaders have actually worked as teachers, firefighters, doctors (and so on) who lead these unions rather than just getting a job at a union and rising through the ranks there.
I asking a genuine question…You tell me, you're the one claiming that they haven't
Negotiations on pay policy yes, negotiations with who ultimately provides the money no.So you were not actually in negotiations with the employer at all then
I’m
No, that's the thing. You and others consistently say "no one wants 'open borders'" but baulk at any policies designed to restrict immigration, ask 'what would you restrict?' or dismiss it as a secondary issue altogether.
I remember bullet pointing areas where immigration directly influences the cost of living and instead of responding, you reacted with ''. That is fine but this what the political right is picking up on and the political left is not and they're being punished for it outside of the urban middle-classes.
This is close to where I am on immigration; I will readily admit it hasn't negatively impacted on me, or at least I don't perceive that it has. Communities across the country were abandoned from the 1980s onwards and left to fend for themselves, the right and far right saw their opportunity and pointed to the immigrant bogeyman as the reason why things had got worse. A visible scapegoat with a quick fix solution.2. Dismissing as a secondary issue - personally, I’m kind of in this boat. I think if something was done about general affordability then the fact that immigration is ‘top of the charts’ starts to disappear anyway. People are disillusioned with the cost of living - as far as I’m aware my energy bills don’t go up because of immigration. Petrol prices don’t go up because of immigration. You could argue that food prices have gone up due to a lack of immigration! I accept this is only half of the equation, and if we earned more then it wouldn’t matter; that’s (I think) the divergence in our points of view. I’ve seen immigration topping the charts before, you correctly call out not enough being done in the last 20 years or so, yet it has also had periods where it’s not high up the list of priorities.
I, and I'm sure many like me, would much prefer it if the jobs were taken by local people.I’m
No, that's the thing. You and others consistently say "no one wants 'open borders'" but baulk at any policies designed to restrict immigration, ask 'what would you restrict?' or dismiss it as a secondary issue altogether.
I remember bullet pointing areas where immigration directly influences the cost of living and instead of responding, you reacted with ''. That is fine but this what the political right is picking up on and the political left is not and they're being punished for it outside of the urban middle-classes.
One of my best mates is Iranian and says he hasn't heard from any of his family for the past week. Reckons it will probably end in regime change.It has been pretty quiet on Iran to be honest, but now we are starting to see some comments emerge, let's hope they aren't all as batshit as this!
And that’s linked with what I said in what way?The liked of Robinson, Scanlon, Gatskill and Benn opposed the EEC so would certainly have found freedom of movement abhorrent
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