Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

chiefdave · 2025-05-13T15:02:30+0100

MalcSB said:
May 2010 then, only 15 years ago.

Why austerity? Was everything broken as it is now? Was there a multibillion black hole in government finances?

Didn't convince train drivers did they? TBF they bided their time until the party bought and paid for got in to power.

Why austerity? Think when you make such large cuts across the board it doesn't just impact those working in the public sector. But also think it introduced an era of scapegoating.

One year of no pay rises or bonuses because of austerity became two and from there on it was excuse after excuse. There's a reason perma-crisis has made it into the dictionary. As I heard one economist say "there's a generation of workers who are fed up of constantly hearing about 'once in a generation' issues"

Not a surprise that over the same period of time we've seen a record transfer of wealth to the richest.

In my sector at least wages remain largely stagnant while hours and workload increase year on year. Its quite bizarre to be in a culture of you're lucky to have a job while constantly hearing there is a shortage of workers. Does not the basis of capitalism dictate that if there's more demand than supply the price rises? Not when it comes to wages it seems.

And then we're supposed to be grateful for crumbs. If you have a wage increase after 5 years of being told there will be none you get people saying but you've had a x% increase this year, like it magically makes up for all the other years.

I think most people of my generation are happy with an honest days work for an honest days pay but it feels the scales have tipped way too far in one direction. Overworked and not paid enough to be able to afford anything even remotely approaching the standard of living our parents had.

At the same time that generation seems to have a complete block on being able to accept that anything is different and therefore any complaints are met with an implication that you're just lazy or want everything handed to you. No we just want what we were promised when we entered the workforce, the same things you had.

Suspect that's why we have a big problem coming down the line with the younger generation who aren't prepared to do that. They've seen us give up our lives for work with little in return and just think whats the point. I'll do the minimum I need to. Who can blame them really?

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T15:33:09+0100

chiefdave said:
Why austerity? Think when you make such large cuts across the board it doesn't just impact those working in the public sector. But also think it introduced an era of scapegoating.

One year of no pay rises or bonuses because of austerity became two and from there on it was excuse after excuse. There's a reason perma-crisis has made it into the dictionary. As I heard one economist say "there's a generation of workers who are fed up of constantly hearing about 'once in a generation' issues"

Not a surprise that over the same period of time we've seen a record transfer of wealth to the richest.

In my sector at least wages remain largely stagnant while hours and workload increase year on year. Its quite bizarre to be in a culture of you're lucky to have a job while constantly hearing there is a shortage of workers. Does not the basis of capitalism dictate that if there's more demand than supply the price rises? Not when it comes to wages it seems.

And then we're supposed to be grateful for crumbs. If you have a wage increase after 5 years of being told there will be none you get people saying but you've had a x% increase this year, like it magically makes up for all the other years.

I think most people of my generation are happy with an honest days work for an honest days pay but it feels the scales have tipped way too far in one direction. Overworked and not paid enough to be able to afford anything even remotely approaching the standard of living our parents had.

At the same time that generation seems to have a complete block on being able to accept that anything is different and therefore any complaints are met with an implication that you're just lazy or want everything handed to you. No we just want what we were promised when we entered the workforce, the same things you had.

Suspect that's why we have a big problem coming down the line with the younger generation who aren't prepared to do that. They've seen us give up our lives for work with little in return and just think whats the point. I'll do the minimum I need to. Who can blame them really?

Did your parents have smartphones and tablets? Flat screen tvs? Internet? Cars with huge numbers of safety features, adding to weight ( & running costs) and list price facilitating additional taxation? What self serving organisation sets the safety requirements (national government) or raises revenue with, e.g. LEZ etc.

Those things I mentioned are an addition to the standard of living your parents, or even I, enjoyed.

Right to buy will have benefited a significant number of your parents generation and may have been abused by certain people. Certainly didn’t benefit me, I had to pay full market price every time.

PVA · 2025-05-13T15:39:24+0100

MalcSB said:
Did your parents have smartphones and tablets? Flat screen tvs? Internet? Cars with huge numbers of safety features, adding to weight ( & running costs) and list price facilitating additional taxation? What self serving organisation sets the safety requirements (national government) or raises revenue with, e.g. LEZ etc.

Why are smartphones and flat screen TVs such catnip for boomers?

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T15:39:29+0100

fernandopartridge said:
No such thing as taxpayer money

So money I earned and as taken off me in income tax, NI, VAT etc making me a payer of tax isn’t taxpayer’s money?

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T15:42:25+0100

PVA said:
Why are smartphones and flat screen TVs such catnip for boomers?

Because they and their benefits are ignored / taken for granted by younger generations. We didn’t have a land line at home until I was 19. Kids have devices these days.

The Philosopher · 2025-05-13T15:42:30+0100

fernandopartridge said:
No such thing as taxpayer money

Classic.

Frame this. Put it on the wall.

Ccfcisparks · 2025-05-13T15:44:25+0100

MalcSB said:
Because they and their benefits are ignored / taken for granted by younger generations. We didn’t have a land line at home until I was 19. Kids have devices these days.

Yeah your parents parents didn't have a phone altogether?

Its not the younger generations fault these things weren't invented when you were younger LOL

PVA · 2025-05-13T15:47:30+0100

MalcSB said:
Because they and their benefits are ignored / taken for granted by younger generations. We didn’t have a land line at home until I was 19. Kids have devices these days.

Every generation benefits from new inventions or breakthroughs that improve quality of life. That's not exclusive to younger generations.

And people shouldn't have to give up what are pretty basic 'luxuries' in order to be able to afford to buy a house.

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T15:50:32+0100

chiefdave said:
Why austerity? Think when you make such large cuts across the board it doesn't just impact those working in the public sector. But also think it introduced an era of scapegoating.

One year of no pay rises or bonuses because of austerity became two and from there on it was excuse after excuse. There's a reason perma-crisis has made it into the dictionary. As I heard one economist say "there's a generation of workers who are fed up of constantly hearing about 'once in a generation' issues"

Not a surprise that over the same period of time we've seen a record transfer of wealth to the richest.

In my sector at least wages remain largely stagnant while hours and workload increase year on year. Its quite bizarre to be in a culture of you're lucky to have a job while constantly hearing there is a shortage of workers. Does not the basis of capitalism dictate that if there's more demand than supply the price rises? Not when it comes to wages it seems.

And then we're supposed to be grateful for crumbs. If you have a wage increase after 5 years of being told there will be none you get people saying but you've had a x% increase this year, like it magically makes up for all the other years.

I think most people of my generation are happy with an honest days work for an honest days pay but it feels the scales have tipped way too far in one direction. Overworked and not paid enough to be able to afford anything even remotely approaching the standard of living our parents had.

At the same time that generation seems to have a complete block on being able to accept that anything is different and therefore any complaints are met with an implication that you're just lazy or want everything handed to you. No we just want what we were promised when we entered the workforce, the same things you had.

Suspect that's why we have a big problem coming down the line with the younger generation who aren't prepared to do that. They've seen us give up our lives for work with little in return and just think whats the point. I'll do the minimum I need to. Who can blame them really?

TBH I meant why was austerity deemed to be required? Labour have been relatively clever in the lies they have told about the state of the economy they inherited, lies not supported by the OBR yet accepted by the left.

The note left in 2010 saying Labour had spent all the money was just a joke apparently. on what basis was that conclusion drawn?

fernandopartridge · 2025-05-13T15:50:58+0100

The Philosopher said:
Classic.

Frame this. Put it on the wall.

If you started a nation with its own currency tomorrow, where does the money come from?

The Philosopher · 2025-05-13T15:51:34+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
Yeah your parents parents didn't have a phone altogether?

Its not the younger generations fault these things weren't invented when you were younger LOL

And our ancestors lived in caves. Or trees. Or whatever.

Remember folks:

Debt = slavery.

Our society has become addicted to easy consumerism and unsustainable debt.

The family unit, crucial in nature since cave / tree times, is being destroyed at the false altar of limp-minded liberal circle-jerking.

You know who you are.

fernandopartridge · 2025-05-13T15:54:14+0100

MalcSB said:
TBH I meant why was austerity deemed to be required? Labour have been relatively clever in the lies they have told about the state of the economy they inherited, lies not supported by the OBR yet accepted by the left.

The note left in 2010 saying Labour had spent all the money was just a joke apparently. on what basis was that conclusion drawn?

Malc explain to me how the UK government can ever run out of sterling

The Philosopher · 2025-05-13T15:56:39+0100

fernandopartridge said:
Malc explain to me how the UK government can ever run out of sterling

@MalcSB don’t bother. He’s lost.

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T16:00:07+0100

PVA said:
Every generation benefits from new inventions or breakthroughs that improve quality of life. That's not exclusive to younger generations.

And people shouldn't have to give up what are pretty basic 'luxuries' in order to be able to afford to buy a house.

Are mobile phones and tablets basic luxuries ? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Can any luxury be basic?

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T16:00:42+0100

The Philosopher said:
@MalcSB don’t bother. He’s lost.

I won’t.

The Philosopher · 2025-05-13T16:00:51+0100

fernandopartridge said:
If you started a nation with its own currency tomorrow, where does the money come from?

The stupid. It burns.

Get in the field.

PVA · 2025-05-13T16:03:47+0100

MalcSB said:
Are mobile phones and tablets basic luxuries ? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Can any luxury be basic?

Mobile phones are not a luxury in the UK in 2025.

And that's why I put it in inverted commas, because I don't see them as luxuries. Or flat screen TVs.

Captain Dart · 2025-05-13T16:03:47+0100

fernandopartridge said:
If you started a nation with its own currency tomorrow, where does the money come from?

Debt largely.

As a side note Burkina Faso Pres. Traore is supposed to be trying to break free of the French controlled Central African Franc used in many West African countries with a new gold backed currency. Would not be surprise me if he is assasinated for this.

chiefdave · 2025-05-13T16:07:46+0100

MalcSB said:
Did your parents have smartphones and tablets? Flat screen tvs? Internet? Cars with huge numbers of safety features, adding to weight ( & running costs) and list price facilitating additional taxation? What self serving organisation sets the safety requirements (national government) or raises revenue with, e.g. LEZ etc.

Those things I mentioned are an addition to the standard of living your parents, or even I, enjoyed.

Right to buy will have benefited a significant number of your parents generation and may have been abused by certain people. Certainly didn’t benefit me, I had to pay full market price every time.

Yes, yes, yes - but after I had left for uni, yes to internet and cars with safety features. Not really sure what your point is here. Technology changes and these things aren't luxuries.

A requirement of my contract of employment is to have a car, have a smartphone and have fast & reliable internet. My employer contributes to none of those things. They aren't luxary items for me or things that are greatly enhancing my quality of life. In fact in the case of smartphones you could make a pretty strong arguement the other way. Does being contactable by my employer 24/7/365 really benefit me?

But this kind of response just illustrates what I'm saying. There's a generation that just can't seem to wrap its head around the fact that the generation coming up behind them aren't getting all the benefits they did. I had it many times with my parents. I could sit down with my Dad and go though my bank statements showing my salary going in and rent & bills going out and fuck all being left but he still couldn't wrap his head around the idea I wasn't pissing money away somewhere simply because I have a 'better' job than him and therefore, in his mind, should be able to afford at least the same standard of living.

Same with working hours. My Dad finished at 5pm on the dot every day of his working life. I will often get a message from my Mum to call, for something non-important she has deemed an emergency, always bang on 5pm because she believes that must be when I finish work. When I leave work between 7-8pm and call her on the way home she always questions why I'm working late and can't grasp that its the norm.

fernandopartridge · 2025-05-13T16:10:32+0100

Captain Dart said:
Debt largely.

I have got a country and I then borrow the currency I have invented, yeah OK

fernandopartridge · 2025-05-13T16:11:08+0100

The Philosopher said:
View attachment 43134

The stupid. It burns.

Get in the field.

Still can't answer the question can you? Another one you've avoided you utter dullard.

chiefdave · 2025-05-13T16:11:50+0100

MalcSB said:
TBH I meant why was austerity deemed to be required? Labour have been relatively clever in the lies they have told about the state of the economy they inherited, lies not supported by the OBR yet accepted by the left.

The note left in 2010 saying Labour had spent all the money was just a joke apparently. on what basis was that conclusion drawn?

It wasn't required, it was ideological and we've stuck with it ever since.

The note thing has been done to death. There had been similar notes left since 1965. Laws, the person who weaponised this, actually apologies to Byrne in 2023 for doing so.

Grendel · 2025-05-13T16:14:21+0100

chiefdave said:
Yes, yes, yes - but after I had left for uni, yes to internet and cars with safety features. Not really sure what your point is here. Technology changes and these things aren't luxuries.

A requirement of my contract of employment is to have a car, have a smartphone and have fast & reliable internet. My employer contributes to none of those things. They aren't luxary items for me or things that are greatly enhancing my quality of life. In fact in the case of smartphones you could make a pretty strong arguement the other way. Does being contactable by my employer 24/7/365 really benefit me?

But this kind of response just illustrates what I'm saying. There's a generation that just can't seem to wrap its head around the fact that the generation coming up behind them aren't getting all the benefits they did. I had it many times with my parents. I could sit down with my Dad and go though my bank statements showing my salary going in and rent & bills going out and fuck all being left but he still couldn't wrap his head around the idea I wasn't pissing money away somewhere simply because I have a 'better' job than him and therefore, in his mind, should be able to afford at least the same standard of living.

Same with working hours. My Dad finished at 5pm on the dot every day of his working life. I will often get a message from my Mum to call, for something non-important she has deemed an emergency, always bang on 5pm because she believes that must be when I finish work. When I leave work between 7-8pm and call her on the way home she always questions why I'm working late and can't grasp that its the norm.

Dave - I never finished at 5pm and nor did my colleagues.

When I travelled abroad I gave up consecutive weekends travelling with no pay or extra holiday entitlement.

I got calls when on holiday.

Its normal life and not anything that is not unfamiliar to me from 1996 onwards

If you have to have a car by law I assume you get tax breaks for business miles or company expenses?

Marty · 2025-05-13T16:15:10+0100

Brighton Sky Blue said:
This may well be what I need to do in order to avoid selling the house. Will basically never see the child, but hey.

Pop to the bank and see if you are able to get a lower interest rate on your mortgage?

Captain Dart · 2025-05-13T16:15:20+0100

fernandopartridge said:
I have got a country and I then borrow the currency I have invented, yeah OK

You have no idea.

Ccfcisparks · 2025-05-13T16:15:25+0100

Grendel said:
Dave - I never finished at 5pm and nor did my colleagues.

When I travelled abroad I gave up consecutive weekends travelling with no pay or extra holiday entitlement.

I got calls when on holiday.

Its normal life and not anything that is not unfamiliar to me from 1996 onwards

If you have to have a car by law I assume you get tax breaks for business miles or company expenses?

I would suggest that was the nature of your workplace, which is still known as notoriously toxic in the industry now.

The Philosopher · 2025-05-13T16:18:51+0100

fernandopartridge said:
Still can't answer the question can you? Another one you've avoided you utter dullard.

Alright:

Where’s the country?
What’s its population?
Mineral wealth?
Fishing rights?
What animals are there?
Aggregates?
Who are the neighbours?

Remember:

Gold, land, guns, seeds: the underpin of any nation. Ask your ancestors.

Oh, and never ask a question that you don’t know the answer to unless you want to go in the field.

Grendel · 2025-05-13T16:25:22+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
I would suggest that was the nature of your workplace, which is still known as notoriously toxic in the industry now.

Maybe so but the notion I would get overtime is ridiculous.

If you are in a management job you accept the pressure and the benefits and hits that come with it. It never bothered me.

Ccfcisparks · 2025-05-13T16:27:41+0100

Grendel said:
Maybe so but the notion I would get overtime is ridiculous.

If you are in a management job you accept the pressure and the benefits and hits that come with it. It never bothered me.

I think the suggestion of overtime is more towards those in middle management and below who dont get to see the rewards of year end output through bonus' or share issues.

Usually if youre in a management position you will be receiving a bonus based on company performance, overtime was compensation for those below who wouldn't see that.

Grendel · 2025-05-13T16:30:08+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
I think the suggestion of overtime is more towards those in middle management and below who dont get to see the rewards of year end output through bonus' or share issues.

Usually if youre in a management position you will be receiving a bonus based on company performance, overtime was compensation for those below who wouldn't see that.

Lower or middle management would not get overtime in JLR and I would not have expected it.

Pay rises were less generally than non management - bonuses were based on largely your individual rated performance

Ccfcisparks · 2025-05-13T16:33:06+0100

Grendel said:
Lower or middle management would not get overtime in JLR and I would not have expected it.

Pay rises were less generally than non management - bonuses were based on largely your individual rated performance

I worked in one of the biggest practice accountancy firms in the world, they paid overtime for all assistant managers and below and took it away overnight.

You had 21 year old kids working 50-60 hours a week, without overtime, whilst having to study. Its a bit of a broken way to work in my opinion. I can understand why some people are happy working the bare minimum and not wanting to climb higher on the ladder. If thats at the cost of them affording to have kids so be it.

Grendel · 2025-05-13T16:36:56+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
I worked in one of the biggest practice accountancy firms in the world, they paid overtime for all assistant managers and below and took it away overnight.

You had 21 year old kids working 50-60 hours a week, without overtime, whilst having to study. Its a bit of a broken way to work in my opinion. I can understand why some people are happy working the bare minimum and not wanting to climb higher on the ladder. If thats at the cost of them affording to have kids so be it.

When Jaguar merged with Land Rover certain benefits were harmonised and I lost £6,000 salary overnight per annum - I just worked a way to get it back in performance bonuses - In the end if people don't like being in the jar get out and do something else

Ccfcisparks · 2025-05-13T16:38:31+0100

Grendel said:
When Jaguar merged with Land Rover certain benefits were harmonised and I lost £6,000 salary overnight per annum - I just worked a way to get it back in performance bonuses - In the end if people don't like being in the jar get out and do something else

I think thats exactly why a lot of people are moving out of corporate.

MalcSB · 2025-05-13T16:41:37+0100

PVA said:
Mobile phones are not a luxury in the UK in 2025.

And that's why I put it in inverted commas, because I don't see them as luxuries. Or flat screen TVs.

The subtlety was lost on me I’m afraid.
Just because you don’t see them as luxuries doesn’t mean they aren’t. They are commonplace and in common usage, but are they actually essential?

luxury
noun
great comfort, esp. as provided by expensive and beautiful possessions, surroundings, or food, or something enjoyable and often expensive but not necessary:

Ccfcisparks · 2025-05-13T16:43:13+0100

MalcSB said:
The subtlety was lost on me I’m afraid.
Just because you don’t see them as luxuries doesn’t mean they aren’t. They are commonplace and in common usage, but are they actually essential?

luxury
noun
great comfort, esp. as provided by expensive and beautiful possessions, surroundings, or food, or something enjoyable and often expensive but not necessary:

Yes mobile phones are essential

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