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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,681
chiefdave said:
Some interesting choice of language to say the least.

Not sure about making it harder for people to come and work here in the care sector. There's well over 100K roles that are unfilled and you can't just say fill them with British workers because they aren't interested.
Click to expand...

It was blunt but sometimes thats how it needs to be , we cant carry on as we are
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,682
MalcSB said:
Very uncommon meaning more financial pressure, wouldn't you have thought? Although there were tax allowances which encouraged people to have a family.

If people would rather raise their child themselves, that is an entirely reasonable personal choice for them to make. Don't whinge about it then.
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What would you class as financial pressure? I have a 'better' job than my Dad but the quality of living I can afford is worse and I don't even what to think about what my retirement will be like compared to his.

The fact is having one parent at work and one parent at home was affordable then for many, certainly for far more people than it is now. My Dad purchased the house on just his salary and even at the peak of the mortgage crisis the percentage of his salary going on the mortgage was lower than mine. For me to even be considered for a mortgage on the house my Dad bought I'd need to earn 4 times my current salary.

I suspect there's a large number of people that would love to spend time raising their own children who simply can't afford it.
 
Reactions: duffer

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,683
MalcSB said:
What's caused the changes you have observed over the past 30 years?
Click to expand...
The biggest single change was when the coalition came in and implemented austerity. Overnight benefits fell away and overtime was no longer a thing.

And since then there seems to have been no real attempt to redress the balance. We've been in austerity / permacrisis ever since.

Somehow they've managed to convince a large section of the working population that this is fine and anyone asking for a pay rise or better working conditions is out of line and wants the entire economy to collapse.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,684
chiefdave said:
What would you class as financial pressure? I have a 'better' job than my Dad but the quality of living I can afford is worse and I don't even what to think about what my retirement will be like compared to his.

The fact is having one parent at work and one parent at home was affordable then for many, certainly for far more people than it is now. My Dad purchased the house on just his salary and even at the peak of the mortgage crisis the percentage of his salary going on the mortgage was lower than mine. For me to even be considered for a mortgage on the house my Dad bought I'd need to earn 4 times my current salary.

I suspect there's a large number of people that would love to spend time raising their own children who simply can't afford it.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right.

Here’s another set of realities:

The school day (9am to about 3/3.30pm) was founded when Dad worked and Mum stayed at home.

In the manner you describe above.

Now Mum (more often but not always) has to work but is restricted from doing as many hours at work because of a cultural expectation to do the school runs. Ita vero women cite a gender pay gap.

The logical step in a to extend to school day, but this will again erode family life at the alter of being a slave to the rat race.

Debt=slavery.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,685
SBT said:
So you think Starmer should have held off on repairing trade relations with our largest single trading partner until he’d successfully re-admitted us into the EU? In the name of not being “duplicitous”?
Click to expand...

Oh, man. Go for a walk to clear your head.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,686
SBT said:
In fairness to The Philosopher, he openly admits he’s a Trump fan who would celebrate if the “economic viability of the UK [became] untenable” via tariffs so long as it served Starmer right.

Somehow he’s confused how this doesn’t translate to a successful election strategy for him personally, but his loyalties have always been clear.
Click to expand...

That’s good. When did I say this?

Don’t say what you can’t back up.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,687
The Philosopher said:
Oh, man. Go for a walk to clear your head.
Click to expand...
So what’s your actual argument here? Starmer can’t engage with any post-Brexit political realities as Prime Minister because he voted Remain nine years ago?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,688
MalcSB said:
That was a direct response to a post from someone who would get paid for extra hours. My assumption is not totally wrong. Why the fuck don't people actually read (a) what is said and (b) to what it was said. Fucking lazy.

I too was paid an annual wage and basically did not get paid overtime. Covid was the biggest rip off.

On call was a separate issue.

Or does wealth go up as number of children goes down? Saves about 10k per child per annum?
Click to expand...

It doesn’t does it? There’s no way I spend almost a grand a month on my kids.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,689
The Philosopher said:
That’s good. When did I say this?

Don’t say what you can’t back up.
Click to expand...
Here you go:

The Philosopher said:
Will Trump try to get Starmer to stand down by economic sanctions? By essentially making the economic viability of the UK untenable unless a new GE is called (which I think Reform could win) it does seem a possibility. Remote, but not totally tinfoil given the current noise coming from the USA.

Now I don’t like any country bullying another country but Labour and their pompous attitude towards Trump might be getting what they deserve.
Click to expand...
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,690
SBT said:
Here you go:
Click to expand...
I totally stand by that.

Trump threatened sanctions via tariffs, Starmer went over grovelling with a letter from Charles in his pocket, kissed the ring and has wound his neck in.

Trump bullied Starmer. Starmer’s pompous attitude has changed radically. Ok
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,691
chiefdave said:
This all sounds very familiar. I get the idea of what Marty says but for me at least it's easier said than done. I've found it's not a problem at a particular company but in the wider working world. Having moved jobs twice nothing has improved.

Had people say to quit work or move to something less stressful for health reasons but how do you do that on a practical level. I wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage if I took a £5K pay cut let alone a £20K one!

I started work in the mid-90s and it was so different. Was never expected to work over my hours without overtime, or at the very least TOIL, got a pay rise pretty much every year, bonuses whenever the company I was working for at any particular time was doing well, a decent amount of annual leave and random other benefits.

Compare that to now, on a daily basis working extra unpaid hours, annual leave the minimum they can legally get away with, no benefits to the point that being able to park or pay the legally required minimum pension contribution are listed on job ads.

And if you say you want anything better you're branded lazy and not prepared to put in the work that previous generations did.
Click to expand...

Has it really changed since the mid 90’s?

I worked then with no paid overtime - some extreme days I would go in at 7 30 am and leave at 11pm.

Management bullying was rife. We had directors shove peoples family photo on the desk in their faces and say how will you feed this lot when you are fired. One director told an underling to get him some sandwiches at lunch and then got told to go back as he hadn’t bought him any crisps.

It was off the scale then
 
Reactions: MalcSB

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,692
Grendel said:
Has it really changed since the mid 90’s?

I worked then with no paid overtime - some extreme days I would go in at 7 30 am and leave at 11pm.

Management bullying was rife. We had directors shove peoples family photo on the desk in their faces and say how will you feed this lot when you are fired. One director told an underling to get him some sandwiches at lunch and then got told to go back as he hadn’t bought him any crisps.

It was off the scale then
Click to expand...
Not necessarily that shocking to be honest.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,693
MalcSB said:
Cut off by Labour before it could be tested at scale. In case it turned out to be a raging success which would have totally stuffed the new government.
Click to expand...
Malc. The tories spent £700 million hoping to deport 1000 people to Rwanda. Labour returned 24000 illegal immigrants by the end of December simply by getting on with what the Tories wouldn’t, they processed them and it didn’t cost £700 million. Rwanda was red meat for morons to a problem the tories deliberately created.
 
Reactions: ccfctommy, Sky Blue Pete and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,694
Ccfcisparks said:
that genuinely astounds me.
Click to expand...
Have been for months. Probably cost me £25 so far.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,695
skybluetony176 said:
Malc. The tories spent £700 million hoping to deport 1000 people to Rwanda. Labour returned 24000 illegal immigrants by the end of December simply by getting on with what the Tories wouldn’t, they processed them and it didn’t cost £700 million. Rwanda was red meat for morons to a problem the tories deliberately created.
Click to expand...
Even the most right wing of nationalists knew that the Rwanda plan was nuts.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,696
MalcSB said:
Have been for months. Probably cost me £25 so far.
Click to expand...
Malc I’m waiting for you to tell me how to earn £200 a month extra so I can afford a kid
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,697
Ccfcisparks said:
Malc I’m waiting for you to tell me how to earn £200 a month extra so I can afford a kid
Click to expand...

I think the figure is nonsense in reality
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,698
The Philosopher said:
I totally stand by that.

Trump threatened sanctions via tariffs, Starmer went over grovelling with a letter from Charles in his pocket, kissed the ring and has wound his neck in.

Trump bullied Starmer. Starmer’s pompous attitude has changed radically. Ok
Click to expand...
You stand by another country “making the economic viability of the UK untenable” because it’s Labour “getting what they deserve”? And you have the gall to ask British people to vote for you?
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,699
MalcSB said:
Am I not allowed to talk about my experience?
Click to expand...

You've posted more in this thread than anyone as far as I can see, so I'd say 'Yes'. Worth looking up what censorship means, though. Have fun ranting.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2025
  • #50,700
skybluetony176 said:
Malc. The tories spent £700 million hoping to deport 1000 people to Rwanda. Labour returned 24000 illegal immigrants by the end of December simply by getting on with what the Tories wouldn’t, they processed them and it didn’t cost £700 million. Rwanda was red meat for morons to a problem the tories deliberately created.
Click to expand...
What's your prediction for tomorrow night Tony?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,701
Ccfcisparks said:
that genuinely astounds me.
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That the Labour Party seems populist on here?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,702
The Philosopher said:
That’s good. When did I say this?

Don’t say what you can’t back up.
Click to expand...
So many do precisely that.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,703
MalcSB said:
That the Labour Party seems populist on here?
Click to expand...
Waiting for you to tell me how to earn an extra £200 a month Malc so I can afford kids
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,704
Ccfcisparks said:
Waiting for you to tell me how to earn an extra £200 a month Malc so I can afford kids
Click to expand...

Well £100/mo of that is child benefit so halfway there already!
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,705
SBT said:
You stand by another country “making the economic viability of the UK untenable” because it’s Labour “getting what they deserve”? And you have the gall to ask British people to vote for you?
Click to expand...
Bless you.

Labour have had to do an about-turn. That’s the point.

Why so hissy?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,706
Seems we need to call him Sir Enoch Starmer now. Who’d have thought

Starmer accused of echoing far right with ‘island of strangers’ speech

Prime minister’s immigration speech was likened by MPs to rhetoric of Enoch Powell
www.theguardian.com
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,707
Grendel said:
Has it really changed since the mid 90’s?

I worked then with no paid overtime - some extreme days I would go in at 7 30 am and leave at 11pm.

Management bullying was rife. We had directors shove peoples family photo on the desk in their faces and say how will you feed this lot when you are fired. One director told an underling to get him some sandwiches at lunch and then got told to go back as he hadn’t bought him any crisps.

It was off the scale then
Click to expand...
You say this while scoffing at the idea more people should be in unions to help push back against this behaviour.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,708
Brighton Sky Blue said:
You say this while scoffing at the idea more people should be in unions to help push back against this behaviour.
Click to expand...

But I didn’t mind the hours as I knew it would get me ultimately a better lifestyle.

It’s naive really to think any union would change white collar behaviour

My first job there was more production related and I was press ganged into joining a union - I left it the minute I got out of there
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,709
Grendel said:
But I didn’t mind the hours as I knew it would get me ultimately a better lifestyle.

It’s naive really to think any union would change white collar behaviour

My first job there was more production related and I was press ganged into joining a union - I left it the minute I got out of there
Click to expand...
It can and did change it in my own white collar workplace. Not to mention of course the wider issue of working to get better working conditions.

The Nordic countries seem to manage fine with very high union membership anyway.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,710
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It can and did change it in my own white collar workplace. Not to mention of course the wider issue of working to get better working conditions.

The Nordic countries seem to manage fine with very high union membership anyway.
Click to expand...

You have no idea how big corporates work.

The obsession with unions is a bit strange. I wouldn’t have wanted restrictions on hours at the time. The only person I knew who was in a union we fucked off very easily as his face didn’t fit
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,711
Grendel said:
You have no idea how big corporates work.

The obsession with unions is a bit strange. I wouldn’t have wanted restrictions on hours at the time. The only person I knew who was in a union we fucked off very easily as his face didn’t fit
Click to expand...
How revealing
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,712
The Philosopher said:
So you are saying it’s fine for the UK to break the Convention rules and still be part of the membership group?

How would that work?

Evidence?
Click to expand...
Answer the question you evasive clown
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,713
The Philosopher said:
So you are saying it’s fine for the UK to break the Convention rules and still be part of the membership group?

How would that work?

Evidence?
Click to expand...

“fine” indeed.

EU rights court fines France for ignoring migrant accomodation

The European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) issued a fine on France for ignoring the accommodation claim of asylum seekers. Three families – two...
www.dailysabah.com
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,714
The Philosopher said:
Starmer spent years trying to overturn Brexit. The US trade deal was impossible without Brexit. The bloke is a duplicitous charlatan.
Click to expand...

I don't think he ever really cared about overturning brexit, it's quite obvious that it was just a personal act of sabotage (among many amongst him and his followers)
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and MalcSB
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2025
  • #50,715
"Police have arrested a man over suspected arson attacks on two properties linked to Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, and a car."


Malc might be a bit quiet in here today.
 
Reactions: duffer
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