Do be fair to Thorn he attracts good loan signings... (6 Viewers)

Nick said:

Yep, Torchy and NLHWC are different people.

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Thanks, Nick!

They both met forming the Thorn Fan Club

Nonleagueherewecome said:

You cheeky bastard! I am a mate of Torchomatic but I can assure you we are not the same person. dongozalas has a few whiffs of Howzer about him, but is generally more polite, logical and..well, less insane.

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I concour with the cheeky b bit. First time on this site I am just me. Somebody needs to explain to you that if more than one person disagrees with your view point. Then it is more likely your opinion on that particular matter is tosh, than it is likely that they are all the same person taking on a multitude of different persona's.

dongonzalos said:

I concour with the cheeky b bit. First time on this site I am just me. Somebody needs to explain to you that if more than one person disagrees with your view point. Then it is more likely your opinion on that particular matter is tosh, than it is likely that they are all the same person taking on a multitude of different persona's.

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No worries mate, I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, but we are not the same person! You can join me and Torchies Thorn Appreciation Society if you like, though

Nonleagueherewecome said:

No worries mate, I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, but we are not the same person! You can join me and Torchies Thorn Appreciation Society if you like, though

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Tempted to make a user group and give you all a special badge imp::claping hands:

TAS club.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

I am aware of the thread origins. I just get vexed as there are many in here who take time and effort to offer a considered view. Some put much research into posts which try and give a context to the position we are in as a foundation for true debate. The reality of our wages structure against our peers, our use of youngsters in comparison with the balance of the division, etc.

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However, the truth is this "research" often takes diverse and contradictory forms which then cause frustration.

This is a classic example.

On the one hand we are told we have to applaud Thorn because he had spotted Norwood and Nimely as talents for the club. There is then a suggestion from some posters that other clubs were interested and they signed for the club because of Thorn's reputation.

So, they signed because of Thorn's reputation. Oh hold on, a player doesn't sign for Coventry but Watford. Why? Oh it's the wages we are such poor payers here. OK but wait Nimeley's here. Now he played for Middlesbrough - do we pay as much as them or has the magnanimous chap taken a pay cut? Unlikely.

So here is the frustration. Why has this discussion on the Fulham guy even started? Well because of the leaks from the top secret London meeting. Ah but of course some people will say that meeting and conversations are here say and rumour. Well they are but other things are "facts";

2 loan signings are here because of Thorn's reputation
He spotted them and took them off other clubs
Loanees who don't come here well it's the pay plan
Nimeley's here so the parent club are paying for him
Fulham can't be paying for him or we would have to have another reason why he is not here

If that's called research I would imagine your daytime job isn't an insurance risk assessor.

So you try and discredit my argument due to observations made by others, not me? Hardly seems fair, does it?

And what's my daytime job got to do with things? Bit personal isn't it? But to answer your question directly: 'better than yours' ;-)

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

So you try and discredit my argument due to observations made by others, not me? Hardly seems fair, does it?

And what's my daytime job got to do with things? Bit personal isn't it? But to answer your question directly: 'better than yours' ;-)

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Oh sorry I saw this;

"Or given their much higher wage budget, maybe they're paying him, or Fulham more for his one month's loan?"

I also saw a statement from you saying the London meeting was heresay

Perhaps someone hacked your account - I'd report it if I were you it's a serious crime.

As for the daytime job remark I wasn't being personal at all and made no reference to the job. It's called irony.

You're confusing me and many other readers. All of my posts assert that I, alongside most others, know nothing of these deals. Read the quotes you so kindly requoted. Do you see words such as 'perhaps' or 'maybe' appearing. To the balance of the educated Western World, this insinuates a conditional.

I don't know why Nimely came here. I don't know why Norwood came here. I don't know why Trotta didn't come here. I don't know what any financial arrangements are. Do you see a common thread prevailing here?

However, I object to use of the absolute in either direction. Such as some assert. I can state certain facts though. To a London-based player, Watford is closer than Coventry. Watford do play higher wages than us. This may or may not have been influential. Watford are not in a relegation dog-fight. Perhaps this young player wants to learn his trade away from such pressure? Maybe, maybe, maybe? Can't you see?

I am sure it's not wholly Thorn's fault Trotta didn't come though. Just as I'm sure it's not wholly to his credit that others have come.

It's called a balanced view. Try it got size. You might like it

Oh I get it so here is my balanced view;

Maybe if we employed a manager the club may stay in this division,
Maybe we lose every away game as we don't prepare properly tactically.
Maybe some of the good players who have been at the club since thorn was here are nothing to do with him
Maybe the players who he may have scouted Luke bell and baker are contributing perhaps to the problem
Possibly offering the above extended contracts was potentially not the wisest thing to do
Possibly loan players who have arrived were nothing to do with thorn at all
Maybe thorn is possibly the worst manager we have perhaps had at the club potentially in it's history.

There balanced and totally impartial possibly.

kduffy said:

Oh I get it so here is my balanced view;

Maybe if we employed a manager the club may stay in this division,
Maybe we lose every away game as we don't prepare properly tactically.
Maybe some of the good players who have been at the club since thorn was here are nothing to do with him
Maybe the players who he may have scouted Luke bell and baker are contributing perhaps to the problem
Possibly offering the above extended contracts was potentially not the wisest thing to do
Possibly loan players who have arrived were nothing to do with at all
Maybe thorn is possibly the worst manager we have perhaps had at the club potentially in it's history.

There balanced and totally impartial possibly.

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wow do you really think he is the worse manager we have ever had, Duffy?

I suppose it is hard to know as no other manager had ever been forced to lose so many players in such a short time and only be able to replace them with a couple of signings, loan players half way through the season and untested kids.

Hopefully will never be in the position again to be able to compare Thorn to someone else.

Although maybe we can compare. When he took over from AB he used the same players available to AB who had won 1 in and the last 16 and and achieved better than AB for the close season.
So maybe if you compare them with exactly the same players this is the only time you can compare Thorn with a another manager MAYBE he did better than AB.
MAYBE he is the worst manager ever apart from AB

No, no I said possibly and maybe.

Don't you see. Balanced and impartial.

Nick said:

My point is, surely if Thorn was an amazing scout as some people make out, he would be able to get us a Grant Holt for peanuts with small wages.

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Nah you are so wrong, people can't pull good players out of their arse. Wonder how many Cody Mcdonalds it took till Norwich till they found Grant Holt?

Your assessment of how good a scout is about how many good buys they pull from non league/abroad, this a narrow minded approach.

I hasten to add that adding a conditional caveat to lunacy doesn't make it laudable

CCFC said:

Nah you are so wrong, people can't pull good players out of their arse. Wonder how many Cody Mcdonalds it took till Norwich till they found Grant Holt?

Your assessment of how good a scout is about how many good buys they pull from non league/abroad, this a narrow minded approach.

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But if a prem team offer you a player on loan and you take them, it is good scouting?

Nick said:

But if a prem team offer you a player on loan and you take them, it is good scouting?

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It could be argued that turning down the bad ones - who must also be offered - shows some measure of nous. Turn it on it's head. We've taken Nimely, Norwood and Gardener (who's since been recalled to Villa and looks quite a player). How many bad ones have we taken?

Do managers no longer have any responsibility for signing players? It seems that hardly any of our previous managers in recent years have had much of a say on who comes into the club.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

It could be argued that turning down the bad ones - who must also be offered - shows some measure of nous. Turn it on it's head. We've taken Nimely, Norwood and Gardener (who's since been recalled to Villa and looks quite a player). How many bad ones have we taken?

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We dont know who he has turned down though? What if they turn out amazing? Hard to say without knowing both sides!

Also wouldn't say that was scouting, more down to the manager (usually)

Maybe it's decided on the roulette tables in the casino!?!

Nick said:

But if a prem team offer you a player on loan and you take them, it is good scouting?

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I have already said can't credit Thorn with finding Gardner, I have already said why I think Nimely was good scouting. Same applies for Norwood really.

You write it like fact as if Nimely and Norwood have been forced on Thorn by the parent club.
In reality Thorn had probably identified these players from a shortlist as the players which will most improve the team and realistic in terms of budget and then approached the parent club.

Didn't Thorn say Nimely and Norwood are players he has been looking at for a long time?

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

Maybe it's decided on the roulette tables in the casino!?!

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That explains it-Igwe put all of SISU's cash on red!

dongonzalos said:

was trying to find the date Thorn Joined all I can find is 2008 (not sure if it was start or end of the season, I believe Dann and Fox were signed in January 2008. I did find this though when looking which backs the view that Thorn is doing well in that we are not detatched at the bottom

"He's gone into a difficult situation at Coventry where they have had to get rid of their highest-earning players and he has had to work with a young group of players.
"I'm sure that, with the inexperienced squad he has got, they are doing well not to be detached at the bottom of the table."
Coventry have won just two of their opening 16 npower Championship fixtures so far, but Downes believes he can guide a young Sky Blues squad to safety, providing he is given the time and resources to do so.
"He has got good knowledge of the game. What he needs is a little bit of backing to get a couple more players in because, looking at the ages of the players who featured in their last game, they are very inexperienced.
"Having said that, it is good to get the youngsters working for you and running for you. It's a double-edged sword and a difficult first job for Andy, but he's making a fist of it and the players are working for him."

This is from Wally Downes who has been in the game a while

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Not THE Wally Downes - Thorne's best mate at Wimbledon. What next his best mate at Crystal Palace says Andy thorn is doing a great job. Oh dear.