Grendel
Well-Known Member
No we didn't.
Did sisu save ACL? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Godiva
- Start date
No we didn't.
Nick
Administrator
Weren't somebody else going to run it?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Was that supposed to say did we if so that is what we were told by sisu aids that we were debt free?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
So how much were they going to pay them for this privilege more then the rent we paid just so they could get some tea and cake money oh and the carpark charges.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Well said.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Rob S
Well-Known Member
Yes. The part of the deal was to bring AEG in. They own & op Staples Center in LA & operate O2 & MEN Arena (2 most popular venues in the world, ahead of Madison Square Garden) here amongst others.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Correct they also said that they thought that ACL were doing a good job and that they had never been in contact with sisu even though Fisher said they had?
None of you have the facts straight!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
We have gone way way way off tangent. It is without doubt that Sisu paying the rent they were paying enabled ACL to make a small profit. What did they do? Charge interest to their investors? Pay significant sums of money to directors of the company - no? They invested the money made back into the Ricoh project.
ACL need a football club to be at the Ricoh for it to make sense. CCFC should be playing football in Coventry and the only way this can happen is for them to return to the Ricoh
JS has no interest in football so you have to ask why is she investing in the club? Money laundering? Loading debts into one of their portfolio of companies or is it to obtain the Ricoh complex, land and hotel for less than it is worth and then investing and selling at a significant profit?
OSB's questions must be put to ML on every occasion. Financially nothing makes sense - please can we focus on getting answers to the financial questions.
What happens if CCFC cannot get planning permission for a new stadium in Coventry or the Coventry area?
How is it financially beneficial to play home games at Sixfields this season rather than Ricoh for roughly the same amount of rent?
These are seriously important questions!
ACL need a football club to be at the Ricoh for it to make sense. CCFC should be playing football in Coventry and the only way this can happen is for them to return to the Ricoh
JS has no interest in football so you have to ask why is she investing in the club? Money laundering? Loading debts into one of their portfolio of companies or is it to obtain the Ricoh complex, land and hotel for less than it is worth and then investing and selling at a significant profit?
OSB's questions must be put to ML on every occasion. Financially nothing makes sense - please can we focus on getting answers to the financial questions.
What happens if CCFC cannot get planning permission for a new stadium in Coventry or the Coventry area?
How is it financially beneficial to play home games at Sixfields this season rather than Ricoh for roughly the same amount of rent?
These are seriously important questions!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Haven't they already worked with ACL on some events at the Ricoh? Sure I read that somewhere.
... and so you start off another tangent!
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Put us right then ?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Sorry - was trying to bring it back to the OP - Sisu paying the rent have enabled ACL to make a small profit - how is that a tangent?
Samo
Well-Known Member
Anybody else wish there was a magic button on here that could fast forward to June/July?
Ah right, my girlfriend has mentioned this magic button, she seems obsessed with me finding it... I don't think she'll wait til July!
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
We were told by Ray Ranson that, yes...
It morphed to 'external debt free' after a while. A fair few lapped up the 'debt free' line though.
And no, it was supposed to say 'we did?'
JS and Higgs agreed a price of £5.5m. £1.5 up front. £4m against equity convertible within 10 years. Depending on sisu buying out and discharging the YB loan and CCC prolonging the long lease to 125yr and ccfc paying a peppercorn rent (the indicated term sheet)
Higgs were advised by PriceWaterhouseCooper - their own advisor - that the price was way above their valuation.
Higgs went back to sisu and asked for an offer outside the ITS.
Sisu offered £2m as the risk was significant higher without the other conditions met.
Higgs said no.
The result of that ... Higgs still sit with the shares they wanted sold.
ACL have a loan of £14m instead of being debt free.
CCC's shares are worth considerably less than had they followed the plan.
The club plays in Northamton.
Everybody lost!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
That does seem to be the summary of the facts from the last week. The part that is incontrovertible is the 'everybody lost' part!
Godiva - why do you think Higgs did that? To get some money and out of the nonsense?
Godiva - why do you think Higgs did that? To get some money and out of the nonsense?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
But did she say it was worth nothing yes or no? and why buy something that is worth nothing?
And would they have paid or taken the charity to court yet again on some technicality, just to pay nothing and then sell it on for a larger amount and the new owner then adding he purchase price to the debt we already own?
Come on we all know how it works!!!
And would they have paid or taken the charity to court yet again on some technicality, just to pay nothing and then sell it on for a larger amount and the new owner then adding he purchase price to the debt we already own?
Come on we all know how it works!!!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Where I find my thesis confusing is that previously CCFC have been poor at paying their debts and Sisu as owners haven't ever let the payment to HMRC or the players ever be missed. I think we are all completely confused but we can't say that just because they stopped paying the rent they wouldn't follow through on other deals that they made or were to make
I don't know.
There are a few possibilities, but without more written evidence I think we will have to wait for the JR.
If this had happened to Liverpool, Arsenal etc - then journalists would be asking a few people a lot of unpleasant questions.
But we're a league one club, nobody but us seems to care.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Why do you say that Godiva? What does the size of the club matter? And you mean unpleasant questions for Higgs and CCC don't you?
She? Joy Seppala?
No JS didn't say that. Her assistant said that.
And it was based on the due diligence they were able to carry out.
Mind you, they were not allowed to speak to PwC who had done their own due diligence (and told Higgs the offer were way above their valuation).
Two reasons -
1) It was sisu's plan to bring in AEG and restructure the Areana business. That would raise the value.
(ACL followed that advice and made a joint venture with Compass to the same effect).
2) The club would benefit from a peppercorn rent and access to all year Arena revenue. That would increase the value of the club.
(So both could be sold in the future and pay back the investments made by Sisu's investors).
Who took who to court????
I believe it was Higgs who took sisu to court!
And ACL took the club to court ... and then ACL forced the club into administration.
No, apparently you don't.
Last edited:
As I said - without more written evidence we will have to wait for the JR.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
You give yourself away a little Godiva with the ACL forced the club into administration. They didn't really did they or they played a part but they were also owed money and applied to the court for the money and it was still not paid
I was replying to a comment that sisu would take Higgs to court again.
Higgs have taken sisu to court.
ACL have taken the club to court.
Sisu have never taken Higgs or ACL to court.
They have taken CCC to court though.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Nothing to disagree with there
They do seem to have messed Higgs and ACL around but that was what i was saying earlier or it might have been on another thread as Sisu have certainly not allowed other amounts due to be left unpaid. Players and HMRC being the major ones
They do seem to have messed Higgs and ACL around but that was what i was saying earlier or it might have been on another thread as Sisu have certainly not allowed other amounts due to be left unpaid. Players and HMRC being the major ones
Out of interest ... have you read the transcripts for the Higgs vs sisu case?
I know it's extensive, but if you imagine you are reading the manuscript of an episode of Rumpole, then it's actually quite entertaining.
And very enlightening.
Even after reading the examinations of the witnesses you won't think that sisu have messed Higgs and ACL around - it's quite the opposite.
Rob S
Well-Known Member
Heh. I wrote a slightly longer version of this earlier and then binned it as I didn't really want to get into it too late on a Sunday evening.
Another important thing is that all of the visitor income that the club and some decent-sized events could bring into the city is mainly lost.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I have to admit I haven't read it all - I have read a lot and hope I have kept quite an open mind on the whole shenanigans
I wonder if Simon are planning to do a piece about that in the CT?
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
I read it all, and I believe that Higgs were messed around by SISU. Higgs asked for proof of funds and asked how any future payments would be secured, there were no answers.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, do you think that anything will come to light in the JR that will paint Sisu in a bad light?
