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Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter SimonGilbert
  • Start date Jan 15, 2015
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Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #211
Godiva said:
So the Observer had the good sense of asking:


And see how eloquently the question is avoided and yet actually in a backward way proves my suspicion:


(Read more: Did Coventry council leader Lucas mislead taxpayers over Ricoh? | Coventry Observer )
Click to expand...


Can you put your suspicion in simpleton terms?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #212
Nick said:
Can you put your suspicion in simpleton terms?
Click to expand...

I suspect it was CCC who went to the club with nice words about a new beginning and rebuilding relationships etc. and they did it only to secure the Wasps deal. It was paramount to Wasps business plan that the club was back paying some rent, bringing in punters and help increase the stadium sponsorship value.
Had sisu said 'no thanks' the price of ACL would have been much lower (they would still have sold or even given away ACL if necessary).
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #213
ACL is sustainable and is promoting economic growth. For example, the forthcoming European Cup Match with Leinster will put millions of pounds into the local economy."

Read more: Did Coventry council leader Lucas mislead taxpayers over Ricoh? | Coventry Observer
​
Click to expand...


More made up figures bullshit.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #214
lordsummerisle said:
Morning glory?
Click to expand...

Ian1779 said:
Dear Ann

I do hope that come early May that you find yourself without employment.

Yours sincerely,

The football club and it's fans you sold down the river you lying hypocrite
Click to expand...
You do understand its an elected role don't you? She receives expenses not a salary
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2015

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #215
Samo said:
I think you owe a few people on here an apology Tony, if only you were man enough. How proud you were that the council 'won' , its a pity you couldn't see what they did to the club because of your SISU obsession. Do you get it now?
Click to expand...

I was happy SISU lost because naively I thought it would be the end of that chapter and the club could at last start moving forward. If you saw it as anything other than that, that's you're issue or imagination. You choose.

It's a pity others couldn't and some still can't see what SISU are STILL doing to the club because of their obsession with everyone but the clubs custodians.

I got it a long time ago along with the majority of our clubs now missing fan base and a good number of what's left. But you have your day in the sun if it makes you feel better.
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2015

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #216
Sky Blue Pete said:
You do understand its an elected role don't you? She receives expenses not a salary
Click to expand...

Not insignificant though http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-councillors-reject-call-3021960


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #217
Godiva said:
So the Observer had the good sense of asking:


And see how eloquently the question is avoided and yet actually in a backward way proves my suspicion:


(Read more: Did Coventry council leader Lucas mislead taxpayers over Ricoh? | Coventry Observer )
Click to expand...

I don't get this. We're signed up on 2 year plus another 2 year deal if we want it. Where's the long term security that clinched the ACL takeover?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #218
skybluetony176 said:
I don't get this. We're signed up on 2 year plus another 2 year deal if we want it. Where's the long term security that clinched the ACL takeover?
Click to expand...

Where did I mention long term security?

Wasps will have to build a sustainable operation. Both Wasps and ACL are loss making ... what did Fischer say about turkeys and eagles?
With the club there for 4 years they stand a much better chance of creating a sustainable business than without us.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #219
Godiva said:
I suspect it was CCC who went to the club with nice words about a new beginning and rebuilding relationships etc. and they did it only to secure the Wasps deal. It was paramount to Wasps business plan that the club was back paying some rent, bringing in punters and help increase the stadium sponsorship value.
Had sisu said 'no thanks' the price of ACL would have been much lower (they would still have sold or even given away ACL if necessary).
Click to expand...

I'm trying to find an accurate statement in your post. I suspect that I could be looking a long time.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #220
Intheknow said:
I'm trying to find an accurate statement in your post. I suspect that I could be looking a long time.
Click to expand...

Excellent, then you must have inside info.
Please correct me where I am 'inaccurate'.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #221
Intheknow said:
I'm trying to find an accurate statement in your post. I suspect that I could be looking a long time.
Click to expand...

Welcome back! Buzzing that you are here again!

Can you correct things then rather than just saying it is wrong?
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #222
Do you think the price for ACL was agreed after CCFC moved back to the Ricoh?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #223
Intheknow said:
Do you think the price for ACL was agreed after CCFC moved back to the Ricoh?
Click to expand...

Why don't you tell us what happened?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #224
Godiva said:
Where did I mention long term security?

Wasps will have to build a sustainable operation. Both Wasps and ACL are loss making ... what did Fischer say about turkeys and eagles?
With the club there for 4 years they stand a much better chance of creating a sustainable business than without us.
Click to expand...

I never said you did. But securing an unreliable tenant for 2 years and maybe another 2 years hardly sounds like a deal clencher for a 250 year lease. What are they going to do for the other 246 years? Wing it and hope it all comes good?

The importance of CCFC returning to the Ricoh (other than to it's fan base) sounds overplayed. That's all I'm pointing out.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #225
Well, one obvious point is that if Wasps needed CCFC at the RA for their business plan to work then Wasps would have required the licence to be more than 2 plus 2.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #226
skybluetony176 said:
I never said you did. But securing an unreliable tenant for 2 years and maybe another 2 years hardly sounds like a deal clencher for a 250 year lease. What are they going to do for the other 246 years? Wing it and hope it all comes good?

The importance of CCFC returning to the Ricoh (other than to it's fan base) sounds overplayed. That's all I'm pointing out.
Click to expand...

Correct. Bringing CCFC was a political move, nothing more. Especially at the rent being paid.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #227
Intheknow said:
Well, one obvious point is that if Wasps needed CCFC at the RA for their business plan to work then Wasps would have required the licence to be more than 2 plus 2.
Click to expand...

So Wasps don't really need CCFC there?

Why the sudden rush for CCFC to get back then around the same time as the buying of the Ricoh? To scupper the deal?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #228
Intheknow said:
Correct. Bringing CCFC was a political move, nothing more. Especially at the rent being paid.
Click to expand...

Political move by who? CCC or SISU?

Was it to try and soften the blow of Wasps?
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #229
Nick said:
So Wasps don't really need CCFC there?

Why the sudden rush for CCFC to get back then around the same time as the buying of the Ricoh? To scupper the deal?
Click to expand...

"Need", no. Just saying that nobody buys a business if one customer is key and that customer is not tied in long term. So, financial models must surely have been worked through without CCFC being a tenant.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #230
Nick said:
Political move by who? CCC or SISU?

Was it to try and soften the blow of Wasps?
Click to expand...

not sure Sisu give a monkeys about how they are perceived. Suspect the Council do.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #231
Intheknow said:
Correct. Bringing CCFC was a political move, nothing more. Especially at the rent being paid.
Click to expand...

So basically CCC needed CCFC back for political reasons. It made no difference to you and SISU really did overplay their hand with the Northampton debacle meaning fan power did win the day and the boycott worked.

By the way. How do you feel about the Tigers advertising by the Ricoh?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #232
Intheknow said:
not sure Sisu give a monkeys about how they are perceived. Suspect the Council do.
Click to expand...
To try and soften the wasps news or mask it?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #233
skybluetony176 said:
I never said you did. But securing an unreliable tenant for 2 years and maybe another 2 years hardly sounds like a deal clencher for a 250 year lease. What are they going to do for the other 246 years? Wing it and hope it all comes good?

The importance of CCFC returning to the Ricoh (other than to it's fan base) sounds overplayed. That's all I'm pointing out.
Click to expand...

Does it not make you just a tiny bit curious as to how little money actually change hands in the deal?
(We don't even know if Wasps have paid cash for the shares. I would usually assume they did, but I won't be surprised if they got some sort of a payment plan).

Why isn't the loan paid out? Surely the council would have insisted the loan be paid out immediately? If not to avoid the coupling between loaning £14m to a hedge fund while not having money to avoid huge cuts on public service, then at least to avoid the risk of ACL going bankrupt in the future and have to write off the remaining part of the loan.

But cash flow aside - Bringing the club back adds value to the deal. What would the price be had the club stayed away?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #234
skybluetony176 said:
So basically CCC needed CCFC back for political reasons. It made no difference to you and SISU really did overplay their hand with the Northampton debacle meaning fan power did win the day and the boycott worked.

By the way. How do you feel about the Tigers advertising by the Ricoh?
Click to expand...
I guess it depends why ccc needed the club back for political reasons surely?
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #235
When you say "you" I suspect you think I am aligned one way. Not the case. I would say that I like to point out inaccuracy.

as to the advert, suspect Wasps will be smiling, less than one month after the first fixture and rivals are already having their noses put out of joint.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #236
Intheknow said:
Well, one obvious point is that if Wasps needed CCFC at the RA for their business plan to work then Wasps would have required the licence to be more than 2 plus 2.
Click to expand...

See my response to Tony - cash flow might(!) have been a deal breaker.

But you said my post was inaccurate - I would have hoped you offered some facts, not opinions.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #237
Grendel said:
I know. Everyone she croaks in an interview I find it cringe making that she represents the city of my birth.

How is the city ever going to be taken seriously with her at the helm?
Click to expand...
Exactly an ex shop steward for Bernie Inn running the City before her a former binman (Muttonhead) and we wonder why we now live in a second rate city!
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #238
Intheknow said:
Correct. Bringing CCFC was a political move, nothing more. Especially at the rent being paid.
Click to expand...

Makes no sense at all.
It would have been political safer selling an empty stadium.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #239
Godiva said:
Does it not make you just a tiny bit curious as to how little money actually change hands in the deal?
(We don't even know if Wasps have paid cash for the shares. I would usually assume they did, but I won't be surprised if they got some sort of a payment plan).

Why isn't the loan paid out? Surely the council would have insisted the loan be paid out immediately? If not to avoid the coupling between loaning £14m to a hedge fund while not having money to avoid huge cuts on public service, then at least to avoid the risk of ACL going bankrupt in the future and have to write off the remaining part of the loan.

But cash flow aside - Bringing the club back adds value to the deal. What would the price be had the club stayed away?
Click to expand...

The Judicial Review concerned State Aid. Deferred consideration for shares would no doubt open doors for a similar claim I suspect.

what hedge fund? With interest rates so low, I wonder the public purse is better off with the loan on-going?

depends if CCFC return was factored in to price. And depends whether rent is material.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #240
Godiva said:
Makes no sense at all.
It would have been political safer selling an empty stadium.
Click to expand...

Really?
Really?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #241
Intheknow said:
Really?
Really?
Click to expand...

Yes!
Yes!
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #242
Intheknow said:
Really?
Really?
Click to expand...
Surely ccc could blame sisu more If ccfc was still in Northampton?
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #243
An empty stadium does not service the Council debt. An empty stadium does not look good for us locals. Bringing CCFC back, having debt serviced, bringing a top tier rugby club to Coventry gives the politicians a warm glow about how clever they are.
 
I

Intheknow

New Member
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #244
Nick said:
Surely ccc could blame sisu more If ccfc was still in Northampton?
Click to expand...

Presumably the Council get the kudos for being instrumental in bringing CCFC home. And, be honest, getting CCFC back home before announcing the sale was probably thought to be politic.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2015
  • #245
Intheknow said:
An empty stadium does not service the Council debt. An empty stadium does not look good for us locals. Bringing CCFC back, having debt serviced, bringing a top tier rugby club to Coventry gives the politicians a warm glow about how clever they are.
Click to expand...

It didn't service the debt for months before that though did it? Why suddenly when wasps were there or talks were happening?
 
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