Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC (1 Viewer)

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

Your whole defending by stealth argument is bollocks, main reason like I said is that nobody gets so defensive like they do with CCC / ACL so there is no real need for others to go into detail is there? People do that because they want the truth out there don't they? If Ignorance is bliss, why are most of the people who hate them so much know the ones who ignored warnings people like NW put out when SISU first came here?

While we are the Ricoh there are influencing parties though aren't there?

If CCFC owned their own ground, no landlords or anything like that which the club would be dependent on then I would agree with you but while there are still people who can influence it isn't totally true is it?

All that matters to me is the football team at the end of the day and

skybluetony176 · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
Your whole defending by stealth argument is bollocks, main reason like I said is that nobody gets so defensive like they do with CCC / ACL so there is no real need for others to go into detail is there? People do that because they want the truth out there don't they? If Ignorance is bliss, why are most of the people who hate them so much know the ones who ignored warnings people like NW put out when SISU first came here?

While we are the Ricoh there are influencing parties though aren't there?

If CCFC owned their own ground, no landlords or anything like that which the club would be dependent on then I would agree with you but while there are still people who can influence it isn't totally true is it?

All that matters to me is the football team at the end of the day and

Why is the landlord an outside influence? We've signed a. 2 + 2 year rental agreement. The influence ended there, at least for the remainder of this season and the following 3. So its nonsense to say they're an outside influence, certainly at this moment in time and until the point where the next rental negotiations start. Oh wait that won't happen, we've moved on and are building our own ground. We've not seen any plans, businesses or building and SISU's claims of progress are constantly being proved otherwise but lets not talk about that because AL has been caught out and a rental agreement we signed months ago is still an outside influence. You're demonstrating my point perfectly.

I agree all that matters is the football team but guess what? ACL don't run it, AL doesn't run it or anyone else that you wax lyrical about. SISU run it, apparently. That's why I want to debate SISU.

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
I agree all that matters is the football team but guess what? ACL don't run it, AL doesn't run it or anyone else that you wax lyrical about. SISU run it, apparently. That's why I want to debate SISU.

So you don't think ACL or AL can make decisions which will affect the club directly?

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2015

Like refusing to deal with the club? Like bailing out ACL under a falsehood? Like stating they needed to build bridges whilst talking to Wasps? Those kind of things? Nah, immaterial

SISU OUT!

Nick said:
So you don't think ACL or AL can make decisions which will affect the club directly?

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2015

Did ACL lose 400k by CCFC not been in the stadium?

skybluetony176 · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
So you don't think ACL or AL can make decisions which will affect the club directly?

torchomatic said:
Like refusing to deal with the club? Like bailing out ACL under a falsehood? Like stating they needed to build bridges whilst talking to Wasps? Those kind of things? Nah, immaterial

SISU OUT!

Depends. If you're only interested in looking back then it's relevant. If you're only interested in how the club moves forward from where it is today then yes, it's irrelevant.

But you pair keep changing the subject back onto things that don't influence the club moving forward if you like, I'm sure it will work out for you in the long run

Grendel · Jan 16, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Did ACL lose 400k by CCFC not been in the stadium?

Yes why?

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Depends. If you're only interested in looking back then it's relevant. If you're only interested in how the club moves forward from where it is today then yes, it's irrelevant.

But you pair keep changing the subject back onto things that don't influence the club moving forward if you like, I'm sure it will work out for you in the long run

Ah so it is looking back and irrelevent when it isn't SISU in the wrong then. I guess you will be telling people to stop mentioning Sixfields and moving the club out of the city too and holding that against SISU?

I want to hopefully know the full truth of the whole mess. Do you not think we can learn from that going forward?

Malaka · Jan 16, 2015

So we have a stadium with no football team, Duh! of course it's going to lose money.
SISU trying to get the stadium for next to nothing, DUH! of course the vendor is going to big it up to get a fair price.
Here's a scenario, would you sell your house to a tenant that you had in place that had trashed your house, is now demanding to buy it but wont pay the going rate because they have trashed it and it needs work doing to it?
Council have done nothing here that I wouldn't have done or any astute business person

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2015

Funny how we should "look forward" when there's any criticism of the Council, isn't it?

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

Malaka said:
So we have a stadium with no football team, Duh! of course it's going to lose money.
SISU trying to get the stadium for next to nothing, DUH! of course the vendor is going to big it up to get a fair price.
Here's a scenario, would you sell your house to a tenant that you had in place that had trashed your house, is now demanding to buy it but wont pay the going rate because they have trashed it and it needs work doing to it?
Council have done nothing here that I wouldn't have done or any astute business person

You could look at it like it being valued with your tenant's belongings and furniture in there so they take it out to bring the value down though couldn't you?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jan 16, 2015

torchomatic said:
Funny how we should "look forward" when there's any criticism of the Council, isn't it?

I'm "looking forward" to Lucas the liar hopefully being out of a job after the next elections......

Malaka · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
You could look at it like it being valued with your tenant's belongings and furniture in there so they take it out to bring the value down though couldn't you?

Indeed, but at the end of the day, if she had said that they needed CCFC that would have brought the price down

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2015

But if it was the truth then she should have said it. I don't get all the "it was nuffink to do with me, I just believed the ACL blokes" line either.

Malaka said:
Indeed, but at the end of the day, if she had said that they needed CCFC that would have brought the price down

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

Malaka said:
Indeed, but at the end of the day, if she had said that they needed CCFC that would have brought the price down

Surely any buyer would check the books and the situation anyway though? Wasps wouldn't have bought it and valued it based on her word of how well it was doing.

Malaka · Jan 16, 2015

torchomatic said:
But if it was the truth then she should have said it. I don't get all the "it was nuffink to do with me, I just believed the ACL blokes" line either.

LOL! truth from a politician!, I always had you down as intelligent and lacking naivety

Malaka · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
Surely any buyer would check the books and the situation anyway though? Wasps wouldn't have bought it and valued it based on her word of how well it was doing.

They still gotta bargain and they have a tennant

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2015

Grendel said:
Yes why?

So is that now roughly the amount each year Wasps now need to generate to make ACL break even?

duffer · Jan 16, 2015

It's fair enough this stuff about looking forwards, but you've also got to have an eye on the past so that you don't make the same mistakes.

What we seem to have learnt, is that CCFC can't do well as a tenant, and especially as a tenant without access to revenues. We've also learned that like SISU, CCC can't be trusted.

What should we do then, as fans, to help CCFC out:

Lobby SISU to extend the rent deal: Where does that leave the club other than slowly bleeding to death without access to other revenues?
Lobby SISU to buy into ACL via Wasps: Does anyone here think Wasps are going to go for that - selling access to the cashflow that they say they need?
Lobby Wasps for either of the above: Seems unlikely that anyone here wants to try to put pressure of any kind on Wasps, they're the innocents here according to most.
Build a new ground in Coventry: Seriously, if you can't see why the two sides don't trust each other by now, you never will.
Get SISU to sell: Most people's (and mine) favoured option, but how? And in truth, even new owners will find the same problems as above.
Build a new ground outside Coventry: Unacceptable to many, but probably the only way that CCFC will end up with a ground where they get at least a share of the revenue.

So it's all well and good saying let's look forwards, but the actions of the past concluded by CCC selling to Wasps have closed the door to most of the sensible options that I can see - what do others propose?

skybluetony176 · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
Ah so it is looking back and irrelevent when it isn't SISU in the wrong then. I guess you will be telling people to stop mentioning Sixfields and moving the club out of the city too and holding that against SISU?

I want to hopefully know the full truth of the whole mess. Do you not think we can learn from that going forward?

You mean SISU who still have an ongoing influence on the club? You're just not getting it are you? From hereon in it's SISU's show. You'd be stupid not to look back at what they've done because it's a good indicator of what behaviour they might carry out next.

Yes we can learn from it truth but as I keep pointing out only SISU have an ongoing influence on our future. If you want to talk about AL or anyone else from the past I suggest you either set up a sub forum or move the relevant or is that irrelevant threads to the off topic section.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2015

dongonzalos said:
So is that now roughly the amount each year Wasps now need to generate to make ACL break even?

Not according to Anne Lucas no. She said that the club income was a small percentage of its revenue and that it was expanding its conference facilities weddings and concerts and was going from strength to strength.

I'm also still wanting to know if the £1 million asset transfer of the car park was included in these figures. She definately said something this morning about £1 million coming off the loan.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
You mean SISU who still have an ongoing influence on the club? You're just not getting it are you? From hereon in it's SISU's show. You'd be stupid not to look back at what they've done because it's a good indicator of what behaviour they might carry out next.

Yes we can learn from it truth but as I keep pointing out only SISU have an ongoing influence on our future. If you want to talk about AL or anyone else from the past I suggest you either set up a sub forum or move the relevant or is that irrelevant threads to the off topic section.

I suggest you don't post on threads that don't interest you tony - you seem very interested in this. When we had crap threads about the council making us proud I didn't see you making that request then. Why?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jan 16, 2015

duffer said:
It's fair enough this stuff about looking forwards, but you've also got to have an eye on the past so that you don't make the same mistakes.

What we seem to have learnt, is that CCFC can't do well as a tenant, and especially as a tenant without access to revenues. We've also learned that like SISU, CCC can't be trusted.

What should we do then, as fans, to help CCFC out:

Lobby SISU to extend the rent deal: Where does that leave the club other than slowly bleeding to death without access to other revenues?
Lobby SISU to buy into ACL via Wasps: Does anyone here think Wasps are going to go for that - selling access to the cashflow that they say they need?
Lobby Wasps for either of the above: Seems unlikely that anyone here wants to try to put pressure of any kind on Wasps, they're the innocents here according to most.
Build a new ground in Coventry: Seriously, if you can't see why the two sides don't trust each other by now, you never will.
Get SISU to sell: Most people's (and mine) favoured option, but how? And in truth, even new owners will find the same problems as above.
Build a new ground outside Coventry: Unacceptable to many, but probably the only way that CCFC will end up with a ground where they get at least a share of the revenue.

So it's all well and good saying let's look forwards, but the actions of the past concluded by CCC selling to Wasps have closed the door to most of the sensible options that I can see - what do others propose?

Well, after reading that depressingly accurate synopsis, & keeping in mind its Friday afternoon, I propose the pub!

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2015

Grendel said:
Not according to Anne Lucas no. She said that the club income was a small percentage of its revenue and that it was expanding its conference facilities weddings and concerts and was going from strength to strength.

I'm also still wanting to know if the £1 million asset transfer of the car park was included in these figures. She definately said something this morning about £1 million coming off the loan.

Sorry I am confused.
I thought they only lost 400k and is was due to the club not been there?

Grendel · Jan 16, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Sorry I am confused.
I thought they only lost 400k and is was due to the club not been there?

No you are not confused you are trying frantically to provide a get out of jail card for your mate in council HQ

lordsummerisle · Jan 16, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Sorry I am confused.
I thought they only lost 400k and is was due to the club not been there?

They didn't only lose £400,000 without the club being there though did they?

blueflint · Jan 16, 2015

i've lost the will for living can't be bothered i give up

mark_ccfc · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
You could look at it like it being valued with your tenant's belongings and furniture in there so they take it out to bring the value down though couldn't you?

The true analog is someone owing the lease to a house with a mortgage on it and depending on sub-tenants rent to pay the mortgage. The tenant stops paying rent in hope that the house will be repossessed and they will get it at a bargain price.

Next - the landlord re-finances the mortgage to make it more affordable, then the tenant cries foul about the loan (after breaking their rental agreement themselves!) then takes them to court.

In the end the landlord is still struggling so they sell the lease to the house to someone else.

Not entrirely accurate (no mention of freehold) but certainly more accurate than your description.

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
You mean SISU who still have an ongoing influence on the club? You're just not getting it are you? From hereon in it's SISU's show. You'd be stupid not to look back at what they've done because it's a good indicator of what behaviour they might carry out next.

Yes we can learn from it truth but as I keep pointing out only SISU have an ongoing influence on our future. If you want to talk about AL or anyone else from the past I suggest you either set up a sub forum or move the relevant or is that irrelevant threads to the off topic section.

So what you are saying is that only SISU can do wrong and nobody can talk about other people fucking up? I get it.

I could see your point if it was about the council fucking up with childcare or dogs off their leads or something, that would go in Off Topic. This is do with CCFC isn't it?

How about looking back and finding the truth about EVERYTHING? SISU, ACL, CCC, Higgs, BR, GR etc etc?

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

mark_ccfc said:
The true analog is someone owing the lease to a house with a mortgage on it and depending on sub-tenants rent to pay the mortgage. The tenant stops paying rent in hope that the house will be repossessed and they will get it at a bargain price.

Next - the landlord re-finances the mortgage to make it more affordable, then the tenant cries foul about the loan (after breaking their rental agreement themselves!) then takes them to court.

In the end the landlord is still struggling so they sell the lease to the house to someone else.

Not entrirely accurate (no mention of freehold) but certainly more accurate than your description.

I was on about the value changing because of something the tenant owns being in there. I agree about the repo stuff though!

skybluetony176 · Jan 16, 2015

Grendel said:
I suggest you don't post on threads that don't interest you tony - you seem very interested in this. When we had crap threads about the council making us proud I didn't see you making that request then. Why?

I remember suggesting the same thing to you on the live JR thread after SISU dropped 2 of their arguments before a word was said in front of the judge and then when they did start talking they were treading water you came on suggesting the JR was an irrelevant side show that had nothing to do with the club. Only later in the day someone decided something would condemn the council and then we couldn't shut you up. You were like a kid with a new toy.

skybluetony176 · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
So what you are saying is that only SISU can do wrong and nobody can talk about other people fucking up? I get it.

I could see your point if it was about the council fucking up with childcare or dogs off their leads or something, that would go in Off Topic. This is do with CCFC isn't it?

How about looking back and finding the truth about EVERYTHING? SISU, ACL, CCC, Higgs, BR, GR etc etc?

No you clearly don't get it. You're hatred of the council has clearly blinded you to the car crash that's unfolding before your eyes. Don't worry, you're clearly not alone. Let me know how that works out for you.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
I remember suggesting the same thing to you on the live JR thread after SISU dropped 2 of their arguments before a word was said in front of the judge and then when they did start talking they were treading water you came on suggesting the JR was an irrelevant side show that had nothing to do with the club. Only later in the day someone decided something would condemn the council and then we couldn't shut you up. You were like a kid with a new toy.

I do genuinely find it flattering you follow me with such interest Tony I really do. Its flattering you seem to hold me in such awe.

You are, however, seriously floundering here. You are refusing to address the issue if debate and constantly diverting the discussion with cheap one liners that would frankly not even make it into Bobby Davro's warm up mans script.

You know what the thread title is. Start discussing it.

letsallsingtogether · Jan 16, 2015

Grendel said:
I do genuinely find it flattering you follow me with such interest Tony I really do. Its flattering you seem to hold me in such awe.

You are, however, seriously floundering here. You are refusing to address the issue if debate and constantly diverting the discussion with cheap one liners that would frankly not even make it into Bobby Davro's warm up mans script.

You know what the thread title is. Start discussing it.

Wow for someone who loves to take a thread off track you are asking others to discuss this one brilliant just brilliant.........

Godiva · Jan 16, 2015

torchomatic said:
Funny how we should "look forward" when there's any criticism of the Council, isn't it?

Forward to next election day?

Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC (1 Viewer)

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