Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (32 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Had a little dig around and got the answers to one of my questions so thought I’d share. It will push the virus back 28 days if it’s well adhered to - still not sure about how this would work with Unis though

‘While the experts said the circuit breaker could push the epidemic back 28 days if it was well adhered to, they said multiple circuit-breaks might be necessary to keep cases low into the winter.’

From this Covid: ministers ignored Sage advice to impose lockdown or face catastrophe

As I’ve said, if it’s implemented to protect nhs capacity (this will differ locally across all regions though) or to buy time for imminent vaccine, I’m in and reckon most would grudgingly buy into it as well. If not, many won’t. Polling is massively in favour but the public is being asked a binary question suggesting a one off circuit break to solve the problem.... it’s far more complex than that (which I know you and some others here appreciate not sure everyone does though )

ps everyone see the London palladium packed out...WTF!!!

Interesting. Of course schools and unis have a built in circuit breaker at Xmas anyway. Giving everyone two weeks off at Christmas with rules on travel and mixing households wouldn’t be that bad would it? Probably the least amount of economic and social impact.

I wonder if the hope is we can limp on until then and have the circuit breaker (hate that phrase) then.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

Interesting. Of course schools and unis have a built in circuit breaker at Xmas anyway. Giving everyone two weeks off at Christmas with rules on travel and mixing households wouldn’t be that bad would it? Probably the least amount of economic and social impact.

I wonder if the hope is we can limp on until then and have the circuit breaker (hate that phrase) then.

Good point....appreciate it would very much be a limp as well !!!

People are putting this a straight economy v health decision. It’s not, it’s massively complex and as I’ve alluded to before it’s protecting the elderly (100% justifiable) but the cost in short and long term is likely to be borne by the young generation both socially and financially.

 

[clint van damme]

Interesting. Of course schools and unis have a built in circuit breaker at Xmas anyway. Giving everyone two weeks off at Christmas with rules on travel and mixing households wouldn’t be that bad would it? Probably the least amount of economic and social impact.

I wonder if the hope is we can limp on until then and have the circuit breaker (hate that phrase) then.

There's a strong suggestion there's going to be a two week 'circuit breaker' around half term

 

[shmmeee]

There's a strong suggestion there's going to be a two week 'circuit breaker' around half term

Yeah but I thought the message from govt at the moment was that ain’t gonna happen, hence me wondering if their “plan” is to struggle through to Xmas instead. I think medically both are probably needed but God knows.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Good point....appreciate it would very much be a limp as well !!!

People are putting this a straight economy v health decision. It’s not, it’s massively complex and as I’ve alluded to before it’s protecting the elderly (100% justifiable) but the cost in short and long term is likely to be borne by the young generation both socially and financially.

My argument has always been waiting ends up costing more to the economy, whatever your hopes of protecting it are.

(Plus I just don't want people I care about being compelled to go into places when I see no need, but that's a personal issue!)

 

[shmmeee]

The conversation seems to have become binary again, like so much these days.

I’d have thought the debate should be where can we adapt so we don’t have to lockdown or have to lockdown as little as possible.

It seems to all be “total lockdown” vs “do nothing cos economy”. Where’s the innovation and thinking outside the box?

I’ve got to say the NZ closed island mode seems tempting from afar, but probably not realistic in an economy as integrated globally as ours is. Which leaves us with reducing spread as much as possible to avoid the need for lockdown. But still it’s all binary “open schools” vs “close schools” but no “do schooling differently” or “prioritise certain schooling”. Where’s the support for getting those without digital devices online or business moving online? Why can’t the state pay the landlord of empty spaces to provide more socially distanced schooling? Why aren’t we mandating masks everywhere?

It just feels like we’re obsessed with getting back to normal and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I’m just glad I’m healthy and safe in stable employment and it’s just academic to me. I hate to think how I’d feel if I worked in hospitality or education right now.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Why can’t the state pay the landlord of empty spaces to provide more socially distanced schooling?

Wouldn't even necessarily have had to do that. I could think of plenty of spaces that are state owned that could have been adapted, to spread things out. Would have also provided jobs for people when setting up those spaces, therefore providing income to town centre shops etc...

 

[djr8369]

View attachment 17234

Clear as mud. My postcode is medium and high

Why is there no “low” level? Maybe no area would be in it atm (although I would think parts of the SW could be) but it still needs to be defined so it’s ready for when an area does reach it and gives communities something to aim at.

Instead when we finally get to that point they’ll introduce another random system or just quietly drop the current. Clown shoes.

 

[djr8369]

The conversation seems to have become binary again, like so much these days.

I’d have thought the debate should be where can we adapt so we don’t have to lockdown or have to lockdown as little as possible.

It seems to all be “total lockdown” vs “do nothing cos economy”. Where’s the innovation and thinking outside the box?

I’ve got to say the NZ closed island mode seems tempting from afar, but probably not realistic in an economy as integrated globally as ours is. Which leaves us with reducing spread as much as possible to avoid the need for lockdown. But still it’s all binary “open schools” vs “close schools” but no “do schooling differently” or “prioritise certain schooling”. Where’s the support for getting those without digital devices online or business moving online? Why can’t the state pay the landlord of empty spaces to provide more socially distanced schooling? Why aren’t we mandating masks everywhere?

It just feels like we’re obsessed with getting back to normal and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I’m just glad I’m healthy and safe in stable employment and it’s just academic to me. I hate to think how I’d feel if I worked in hospitality or education right now.

There is certainly a lack of creative thinking. I was saying all summer send the young kids to school so parents can go to work. Put as much of the curriculum online as you can and limit how much older kids are in while providing a backup option. Instead we’ve hoped for the best again.

There are plenty of solutions, none are perfect or easy but most are better than just hoping for the best. Whether for incompetence, ideology or whatever there is little creative thinking going on in central government.

If one small piece of good has come from it it is that Cummings has been exposed as a charlatan. This government is about as far removed from data driven systems thinking as it is possible to be.

 

[skybluetony176]

There's a strong suggestion there's going to be a two week 'circuit breaker' around half term

I have a friend who’s a TA. She said weeks ago that schools were being primed for this by word of mouth, nothing official. I think in many respects for the conservatives this is very much the EU again in that the party is split, experiencing civil war over a single issue and through a fear of doing something they’re doing nothing until forced. At which point the reaction will be bigger than what would have been required had they done something about it in the first place.

 

[djr8369]

Why is there no “low” level? Maybe no area would be in it atm (although I would think parts of the SW could be) but it still needs to be defined so it’s ready for when an area does reach it and gives communities something to aim at.

Instead when we finally get to that point they’ll introduce another random system or just quietly drop the current. Clown shoes.

Should have had tiers laid out 6 months ago. Would have avoided most of the confusion over what restrictions were in force.

Again, obvious simple stuff that took months to sink in. Apologies if I’m ranting but it’s becoming incredibly frustrating how we can’t get anything right.

 

[djr8369]

Wouldn't even necessarily have had to do that. I could think of plenty of spaces that are state owned that could have been adapted, to spread things out. Would have also provided jobs for people when setting up those spaces, therefore providing income to town centre shops etc...

Solutions as opportunities. Hire out struggling venues to provide socially distance lecture halls.

 

[shmmeee]

Wouldn't even necessarily have had to do that. I could think of plenty of spaces that are state owned that could have been adapted, to spread things out. Would have also provided jobs for people when setting up those spaces, therefore providing income to town centre shops etc...

Indeed. Though I’m trying to think of solutions which also meet the needs of Tory donors.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Used coronavirus tests handed out by mistake in Birmingham

One student who was given a used kit said some people had opened and used the testing kits.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not getting involved in the politics with all of this at the moment, but just saw this article.

What the actual fuck?

 

[skybluetony176]

Interesting stat regarding the 42 Tory Covid rebels. 40 of them are brexiteers who think loosing billions from the economy in the name of brexit is all fine and dandy but when it comes to losing billions from the economy to save lives and protect the NHS its disgusting.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Used coronavirus tests handed out by mistake in Birmingham

One student who was given a used kit said some people had opened and used the testing kits.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[clint van damme]

Used coronavirus tests handed out by mistake in Birmingham

One student who was given a used kit said some people had opened and used the testing kits.

www.bbc.co.uk

That must have been chalked up as at least 8 tests!

 

[David O'Day]

Does Starmer's proposal involve keeping universities, as well as schools, open? It just seems nonsensical to shut everything down, bar the two biggest transmitters!

It's unis to online if needed.

It's not his proposal, it's the exact same as the leaked sage recommendations

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's unis to online if needed.

It's not his proposal, it's the exact same as the leaked sage recommendations

SAGE then need to decide if I should teach freely or teach remotely as the halfway house doesn’t work for anyone

 

[djr8369]

Interesting stat regarding the 42 Tory Covid rebels. 40 of them are brexiteers who think loosing billions from the economy in the name of brexit is all fine and dandy but when it comes to losing billions from the economy to save lives and protect the NHS its disgusting.

Said similar yesterday. We are now in double-think territory.

 

[clint van damme]

haha!

 

[fernandopartridge]

The debate between the government and Andy Burnham is interesting - Burnham wants to remain in Tier 2 but the government want Gt Manchester to go in to Tier 3.

The issue is now that the confidence of people within GM to go out and use bars and restaurants is ebbing away, so in many respects being in Tier 3 might end up a better option than businesses remaining open and unused.

Nearly 20k cases reported today. Number of tests again down and way below the alleged 'capacity'

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The debate between the government and Andy Burnham is interesting - Burnham wants to remain in Tier 2 but the government want Gt Manchester to go in to Tier 3.

The issue is now that the confidence of people within GM to go out and use bars and restaurants is ebbing away, so in many respects being in Tier 3 might end up a better option than businesses remaining open and unused.

Nearly 20k cases reported today. Number of tests again down and way below the alleged 'capacity'

Burnham has grown some balls since 2015 that’s for sure

 

[Ian1779]

Burnham has grown some balls since 2015 that’s for sure

Or someone has finally let go of them.....

 

[shmmeee]

TBF until Corbyn-mania hit Burnham was a shoe in for leader. He was by far the best of the three amorphous blobs in suits. Just had his left wing support nicked from under him.

 

[Philosorapter]

The debate between the government and Andy Burnham is interesting - Burnham wants to remain in Tier 2 but the government want Gt Manchester to go in to Tier 3.

The issue is now that the confidence of people within GM to go out and use bars and restaurants is ebbing away, so in many respects being in Tier 3 might end up a better option than businesses remaining open and unused.

Nearly 20k cases reported today. Number of tests again down and way below the alleged 'capacity'

I can't find what I am looking for but it does look like Greater Manchester and Lancashire will be going into Level 3 Lockdown tomorrow (Wednesday) as well.

It does make it sound like the government is doing stuff whilst the virus is growing to a point where people are dropping like flies all over the country.

From what I can understand the press has already briefed that there is a meeting at some point today about this. These meetings happen regularly but when the press is informed then there is a good probability that the decision has already been made.

TBF until Corbyn-mania hit Burnham was a shoe in for leader. He was by far the best of the three amorphous blobs in suits. Just had his left wing support nicked from under him.

What left wing support..? He was just a little less right wing then his colleagues. You can see this to his opposition of going into the basic very-high category.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

What left wing support..? He was just a little less right wing then his colleagues.

Yeah, I thought he moved a bit further left once he saw Corbyn gaining momentum (pun not intended!) in order to try and head him off, rather than for any particular uber-left leaning tendencies.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

TBF until Corbyn-mania hit Burnham was a shoe in for leader. He was by far the best of the three amorphous blobs in suits. Just had his left wing support nicked from under him.

He said during the contest ‘the chancellor is being devious in trying to make me give my opinion’. It was just not willing to ever say what he actually thought that pissed me off. Good that he’s free of those particular shackles at least

 

[skybluetony176]

Delusional is too small a word

 

[wingy]

Delusional is too small a word

Honest question.
Would they have the scale to undertake at likely projected number's?
Son in law is far busier now and at least seems to get through to a lot more poeple .
I know they have the knowledge .

 

[skybluetony176]

Honest question.
Would they have the scale to undertake at likely projected number's?
Son in law is far busier now and at least seems to get through to a lot more poeple .
I know they have the knowledge .

FP would be the best one to answer that but I’m sure I remember him making the point a long time ago that they already have the ability to do track and trace and have done for decades. A conservative MP made the point yesterday that localised track and trace is already more effective than serco track and trace. There really doesn’t seem a logical reason for not taking it of serco unless as the MP asked there’s financial implications for doing so. Doesn’t stack up.

 

[CCFCSteve]

FP would be the best one to answer that but I’m sure I remember him making the point a long time ago that they already have the ability to do track and trace and have done for decades. A conservative MP made the point yesterday that localised track and trace is already more effective than serco track and trace. There really doesn’t seem a logical reason for not taking it of serco unless as the MP asked there’s financial implications for doing so. Doesn’t stack up.

100% it should be localised and think it’s heading in that direction. Sure one of the greater Manc locations undertook more localised track and trace at very start of second wave. At worst they should be working closely in conjunction

 

[shmmeee]

What left wing support..? He was just a little less right wing then his colleagues. You can see this to his opposition of going into the basic very-high category.

Him being less right wing by definition means he was the most left wing (until Corbyn became a serious prospect), Burnham was favourite precisely because he was expected to get the vote of the left, Kendall was the Blairite candidate and Cooper the right of the soft left and Burnham the left of the soft left. Corbyn was the token SCG candidate not expected to get more than a few percent.

 

[wingy]

So when the really extreme stuff comes along and has to be implemented will it come from LA/Mayor's, with them taking the heat and the Gov't not suffering the consequent costs?
Both political and the treasury?

 

[David O'Day]

FP would be the best one to answer that but I’m sure I remember him making the point a long time ago that they already have the ability to do track and trace and have done for decades. A conservative MP made the point yesterday that localised track and trace is already more effective than serco track and trace. There really doesn’t seem a logical reason for not taking it of serco unless as the MP asked there’s financial implications for doing so. Doesn’t stack up.

It's not so much do they have the scale but more why were they given the money to scale up given they already have the experience.