Anyway, Labour under Starmer has walked into an easy Tory trap. These utterly stupid centrists trying to appeal to people like them.
Anyway, Labour under Starmer has walked into an easy Tory trap. These utterly stupid centrists trying to appeal to people like them.
The trap that it appears Labour don't want to help (even if that isn't the case) +. Labour need to tell them it isn't going anywhere near far enough, not about what HMRC say. The public don't care about HMRC. I'm really not sure who this line is trying to appeal to.What trap? It's a piss poor scheme that even HMRC wouldn't sign off on because it was was not value on the MPM rules.
A tory shouting "opposition for oppositions sake" isn't when the head of HMRC agrees that it is a poor scheme.
Labours issue now is that whilst they are trying to appeal to people that don’t vote for them - moderate Tories and centrists (on the face of it making some sense) they are now alienating the core base of their vote that stuck with them in 2019. No point in gaining moderates and centrists because you have an ‘electable’ face if you then lose the others. At the moment we just appear to be heading straight back to 2010-15 with no awareness of why the party was so shit then and no plan. Starmer was supposed to take the good aspects of the Corbyn era (and there was some) and build on them to become an electable force.... there needs to be something more radical economically to get the country back on its feet.Anyway, Labour under Starmer has walked into an easy Tory trap. These utterly stupid centrists trying to appeal to people like them.
A big issue here is not only they can't open but they haven't been given a date. A lot of theatres rely on pantos to get them through the year financially and they should be prepping for those now but still don't know if they'll be open so can't get tickets on sale.Indoor performance spaces still shut, you can socially distance there easily but I guess they don't have the lobby weight that pubs do
Labours issue now is that whilst they are trying to appeal to people that don’t vote for them - moderate Tories and centrists (on the face of it making some sense) they are now alienating the core base of their vote that stuck with them in 2019. No point in gaining moderates and centrists because you have an ‘electable’ face if you then lose the others. At the moment we just appear to be heading straight back to 2010-15 with no awareness of why the party was so shit then and no plan. Starmer was supposed to take the good aspects of the Corbyn era (and there was some) and build on them to become an electable force.... there needs to be something more radical economically to get the country back on its feet.
The trap that it appears Labour don't want to help (even if that isn't the case) +. Labour need to tell them it isn't going anywhere near far enough, not about what HMRC say. The public don't care about HMRC. I'm really not sure who this line is trying to appeal to.
Except there is. A vote taken from the Tories, especially in a Lab/Con marginal, is worth twice as much as a vote lost in a safe seat, if not more.
I completely agree we need a radical economic agenda, if only we hadn’t just associated that sort of agenda with Corbyn, who the public hate. Now it’s virtually impossible to raise that without resurrecting the ghost of Corbyn at the same time. I’m not sure you appreciate just how toxic he became with voters. He’s probably set back the left by decades.
Labours issue now is that whilst they are trying to appeal to people that don’t vote for them - moderate Tories and centrists (on the face of it making some sense) they are now alienating the core base of their vote that stuck with them in 2019. No point in gaining moderates and centrists because you have an ‘electable’ face if you then lose the others. At the moment we just appear to be heading straight back to 2010-15 with no awareness of why the party was so shit then and no plan. Starmer was supposed to take the good aspects of the Corbyn era (and there was some) and build on them to become an electable force.... there needs to be something more radical economically to get the country back on its feet.
A big issue here is not only they can't open but they haven't been given a date. A lot of theatres rely on pantos to get them through the year financially and they should be prepping for those now but still don't know if they'll be open so can't get tickets on sale.
Depends where they in terms of geographical location. I might be wrong, but I feel that centrists and lefties often occupy the same areas (London and big metropolitan conurbations) - and I’m unconvinced that northern constituencies are full of centrists.Surely it depends on the difference. If you gain more centrists than you lose lefties it's worthwhile.
Depends where they in terms of geographical location. I might be wrong, but I feel that centrists and lefties often occupy the same areas (London and big metropolitan conurbations) - and I’m unconvinced that northern constituencies are full of centrists.
So if the leftists and centrists occupy the same areas therefore the righties must all be in the same area too and you think this is where a left-leaning party should focus its efforts? If the north would rather vote for a right wing party that has historically decimated their industries, livelihoods and communities rather than a left wing/centrist party then there's no hope.
Northern Labour voters have been in decline since the end of the 90’s because the party was viewed as too London-centric. 2017 was actually an arrest of this decline and in some areas it started to improve, only to be truly fucked by the Brexit stance.
I know we have gone over this before but I don’t believe abandoning ‘left’ economic policy is going to make anywhere near enough electoral gains. Labour should be all about fairer distribution of economic wealth and it should be championing housing and green initiatives - be radical in this way. If it wants to appeal to the Tory voters then be more ‘British’ on social values. They should have learnt that in 2015 when we couldn’t be deciphered from the Tories.
Attacking the Tories from the right is a hopeless battle. Scotland I think is permanently lost because the demographic of voters who are both on the left and unionist is just too small to get more than a handful of seats (in some parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh but that's it). We need economically left and socially conservative messaging in both parts of the country I think.
I think best case scenario is we could get 10 seats in the places you’ve mentioned. We had 7 in 2017, now only have 1.
Corbyn toxicity with voters stemmed from Brexit and the decision to pursue the PV (championed by Starmer no less) - it allowed the Tories to pin on him that he didn’t respect democracy. To their credit they executed that with aplomb, and once they had that embedded they could chuck anything and everything and it would stick. But the Tories are now rolling out their version of Socialism 2.0 and Labour aren’t even making a noise to say that these are things that sit front and centre of a Labour economic manifesto. Instead they’re too busy alienating BAME voters and members that are deserting the party. What next? The youth vote because we row back on affordable housing or green issues?
They are in danger of being outflanked on the left by the Lib Dems who have finally realised that their success under Kennedy in early 2000’s came from being in the left side of the centre whilst still holding some conservative values in terms of social justice (something you raise frequently) - this would also appeal to former red wall voters that switched because of Brexit stance.
To take seats in Scotland we need to appeal to those that vote SNP not Tory... and without Scotland I see no way back. Labour should shout loud about it’s left values, it’s not something to be embarrassed about and despite getting thumped they still got over 10m votes don’t their is appetite for it.
How he’s not criminally responsible for this I have no idea
He’s killed more British people than Blair did through the illegal war. By about 44,500 people to be precise. Well, I say precise when I mean by the governments own figures.How he’s not criminally responsible for this I have no idea
He said in that video he shakes hands with everyone
Just keeps on coming doesn’t it
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Caroline Dinenage getting rinsed by BBC wet lettuce Charlie Stayt this morning. As is the norm now, totally unprepared to answer the most predictable of questions.
That will be another program added to the list of those they refuse to appear on because of the nasty man asking questions.
He’s killed more British people than Blair did through the illegal war. By about 44,500 people to be precise. Well, I say precise when I mean by the governments own figures.
This is a consequence of the appalling teaching of science we have in British schools. British scientific standards are behind Germany, the Scandinavian countries, you name it. It is only because of foreign researchers that the British scientific head is above water. Rather than regarding scientific understanding as an essential part of public life, people would rather be contrarian and 'leave it to the scientists'.
Thats the first time ive seen that, had to watch it twice to be sure.......Woah
This is a consequence of the appalling teaching of science we have in British schools. British scientific standards are behind Germany, the Scandinavian countries, you name it. It is only because of foreign researchers that the British scientific head is above water. Rather than regarding scientific understanding as an essential part of public life, people would rather be contrarian and 'leave it to the scientists'.
Northern Labour voters have been in decline since the end of the 90’s because the party was viewed as too London-centric. 2017 was actually an arrest of this decline and in some areas it started to improve, only to be truly fucked by the Brexit stance.
I know we have gone over this before but I don’t believe abandoning ‘left’ economic policy is going to make anywhere near enough electoral gains. Labour should be all about fairer distribution of economic wealth and it should be championing housing and green initiatives - be radical in this way. If it wants to appeal to the Tory voters then be more ‘British’ on social values. They should have learnt that in 2015 when we couldn’t be deciphered from the Tories.
On the whole I agree with you, but to suggest Northern Labour voters feel they're too London-centric (which they may well do with the Islington socialists like Corbyn) but why then would they move to Tory, who're even more London centric, but focused on the wealthy bits like the City, Chelsea, Kensington etc and then the leafy commuter suburbs of Surrey and Kent.
Why do people keep on falling for the guff about Midlands Engine and Northern Powerhouse. I mean if you just look at those policies it's nothing more than playing to lazy stereotypes of the regions based on their golden periods. Manufacturing/factories etc when those days are gone. Never suggest those plans for the South do they? It's nothing more than lip service. Are people really that stupid that they'll just vote for something that helps them reminisce about the 'good old days'?
Haha!No offence taken I only partook in both
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?