Club Accounts 2016/2017 (1 Viewer)

[oldfiver]

CCC are already out the club. They've handed it over to Wasps.

CCC have handed CCFC over to WASPs? Are you in the know then?

 

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[oldfiver]

Ahhh! The old smoking gun theory again. What documents are these then? Another Rizzla paper with a cryptic clue again? Maybe a king size Rizzla this time.

I hope something can happen in mediation for the benefit of the club but ultimately it would have to benefit SISU/ARVO and I can’t see mediation delivering that as it’s not the purpose of it. I suspect that their was big sighs in the SISU/ARVO camp when mediation was asked for by the judge.

SISU may have sighed but CCC went into despair!

 

[Captain Dart]

I said this in the first few months after they came in...that they would deconstruct then reconstruct to make the club run soundly in finance terms. Struth - I had no idea they would go as far as they have to achieve it..!

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Well OSB's analysis is less optimistic.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Well OSB's analysis is less optimistic.

Time will tell I guess...but I wish they would simply go

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[skybluetony176]

SISU may have sighed but CCC went into despair!

I somehow doubt that. It’s happening completely confidentiality in secret. I would think that CCC far prefer that than a public courtroom. SISU on the hand love their days out in court.

Which documents do they have to submit?

 

[stupot07]

We can't see the player wages split though so we can't compare the figure that counts,

You can't but you can make some comparisons, they won't be wildly out in terms of support staffing costs, so you can make some assumptions. It would have been Nowhere near bottom 4.

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[Ashdown]

Every year essentially we are forced into a loss making situation. First it was ' Management charges' and Interest and now just Interest charges......... whilst I understand that these just accrue without actual payment, there has to be a benefit somewhere to Joy and Co of these paper losses.

 

[Nick]

I have linked to the thread to give people a bit more information to make their decisions on, nothing worse than this type of thing where people don't try to understand it to then make decisions.

 

[wingy]

However you skin the Cat Mr Fishers ambition of delivering 60% of turnover (now 55% in this division) to the manager as player budget seems to move further and further away with each passing year of his tenure,.
The off field salaries must now be getting towards parity with the playing side and the franchising out of operations seemingly eating further into the available pot rather than increasing it.
Current level at best 40% possibly as low as 35%.
I'm no mathematics grad but with current overheads we'd need to be heading for turnover of circa £15M to achieve the stated aim.
He's a Charlatan.

 

[skybluetony176]

However you skin the Cat Mr Fishers ambition of delivering 60% of turnover (now 55% in this division) to the manager as player budget seems to move further and further away with each passing year of his tenure,.
The off field salaries must now be getting towards parity with the playing side and the franchising out of operations seemingly eating further into the available pot rather than increasing it.
Current level at best 40% possibly as low as 35%.
I'm no mathematics grad but with current overheads we'd need to be heading for turnover of circa £15M to achieve the stated aim.
He's a Charlatan.

But we have the biggest budget in the league. Apparently. I really do struggle to see how people fall for this season after season and then load all the blame on the manager for “underachieving”. They’re in the same league as the people who think all the ticket money goes to Joy’s handbag fund.

 

[Nick]

However you skin the Cat Mr Fishers ambition of delivering 60% of turnover (now 55% in this division) to the manager as player budget seems to move further and further away with each passing year of his tenure,.
The off field salaries must now be getting towards parity with the playing side and the franchising out of operations seemingly eating further into the available pot rather than increasing it.
Current level at best 40% possibly as low as 35%.
I'm no mathematics grad but with current overheads we'd need to be heading for turnover of circa £15M to achieve the stated aim.
He's a Charlatan.

How are you getting those numbers? Not saying you are wrong just that when I had a quick look it just says total staff inc pensions and social security costs 4,453,339 and turnover 6,134,192

That includes admin staff and stewards though.

What I don't get is that it says we have 11 admin and commercial and 129 players and management.

Does the 129 include people like doctors, physios, the stats lad etc?

 

[Nick]

But we have the biggest budget in the league. Apparently. I really do struggle to see how people fall for this season after season and then load all the blame on the manager for “underachieving”. They’re in the same league as the people who think all the ticket money goes to Joy’s handbag fund.

Aren't these accounts for League 1?

 

[wingy]

How are you getting those numbers? Not saying you are wrong just that when I had a quick look it just says total staff inc pensions and social security costs 4,453,339 and turnover 6,134,192

That includes admin staff and stewards though.

What I don't get is that it says we have 11 admin and commercial and 129 players and management.

Does the 129 include people like doctors, physios, the stats lad etc?

That's what I'm going on plus what we've historically been led to believe.

 

[Nick]

That's what I'm going on plus what we've historically been led to believe.

How did you get the players value alone and not the one with the stewards / admin staff?

Just using total staff costs out of turnover it looks like it's about 72% of turnover unless I am working it out wrong?

 

[skybluetony176]

Aren't these accounts for League 1?

Have we suddenly become cash rich from relegation? Where was that mentioned in the accounts? The principle hasn’t changed. Fact is that the first team is at the end of the queue and the owners won’t invest. Assumptions about how good our budget must be gets exposed every time the accounts are posted yet people keep using it as a yardstick to measure our success with absolutely zero awareness of the reality. You being one of the main culprits as any match thread shows with your glee in how right you think you are that we’re struggling compared to with where you think we should be based on a misplaced assumption of what support the manager gets financially.

 

[skybluebeduff]

People on Facebook have been having hissy fits over that 76p in £1 goes to SISU, where the fook has that even come from? Even I can see that's bollocks.

 

[Nick]

People on Facebook have been having hissy fits over that 76p in £1 goes to SISU, where the fook has that even come from? Even I can see that's bollocks.

It was the Football Finance guy who said it on social media, I posted it earlier in the thread but he's removed it now.

 

[Nick]

Have we suddenly become cash rich from relegation? Where was that mentioned in the accounts? The principle hasn’t changed. Fact is that the first team is at the end of the queue and the owners won’t invest. Assumptions about how good our budget must be gets exposed every time the accounts are posted yet people keep using it as a yardstick to measure our success with absolutely zero awareness of the reality. You being one of the main culprits as any match thread shows with your glee in how right you think you are that we’re struggling compared to with where you think we should be based on a misplaced assumption of what support the manager gets financially.

You are acting as if it's proof we have one of the lowest budgets in this league. What are people actually falling for?

What has actually been exposed? The accounts from League 1 won't give that much of an indication of our budget standings in League 2 as we could have the same budget (not saying we have) but it ranks higher in League 2 than it did in League 1 as the average budgets are lower.

What are you actually on about?

 

[skybluebeduff]

It was the Football Finance guy who said it on social media, I posted it earlier in the thread but he's removed it now.

Well he's stirred up the pot on Facebook, some people really believe anything to make their hatred for SISU grow more.

 

[Nick]

Well he's stirred up the pot on Facebook, some people really believe anything to make their hatred for SISU grow more.

It will have stuck now.

 

[wingy]

How did you get the players value alone and not the one with the stewards / admin staff?

Just using total staff costs out of turnover it looks like it's about 72% of turnover unless I am working it out wrong?

We were told last year it was around £2-3M, which I suspected North of reality,but now likely with the cash injection to shore it up.
Season before, £2-5M although I think it came in at £2-8M

 

[skybluetony176]

You are acting as if it's proof we have one of the lowest budgets in this league. What are people falling for?

What has actually been exposed? The accounts from League 1 won't give that much of an indication of our budget standings in League 2 as we could have the same budget (not saying we have) but it ranks higher in League 2 than it did in League 1 as the average budgets are lower.

What are you actually on about?

Where have I said lowest budget? Nowhere, stop putting words into my mouth.

Saying it’s not as big as the likes of you and others who think we’re underachieving compared to the budget they assume we have or what they think our budget must be compared to teams currently doing better than us in terms of current league position is not nearly the same thing as saying lowest budget so stop talking bollocks.

 

[italiahorse]

You are acting as if it's proof we have one of the lowest budgets in this league.

So where in the accounts does it say we haven't ?
Surely if TF keeps rolling out the top 8 budget crap he could break it down further and show us.
I read that as he is telling porkies and I'm not falling for it..................yet

 

[stupot07]

That's what I'm going on plus what we've historically been led to believe.

Which will be the same for all clubs, so for Walsall who we've been told our wages were £1m more than, they will still be paying support staff, etc, management, etc and players as part of their whole wage bill. You then have to make the assumption the ratio wage bills that are spend on players and not playing staff is around the same for most clubs so you can gauge roughly where your wage bill sits in the context of the league.

I maintain that ours would have been nowhere near bottom 4, and we went down mainly due to poor management and recruitment.

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[Nick]

Where have I said lowest budget? Nowhere, stop putting words into my mouth.

Saying it’s not as big as the likes of you and others who think we’re underachieving compared to the budget they assume we have or what they think our budget must be compared to teams currently doing better than us in terms of current league position is not nearly the same thing as saying lowest budget so stop talking bollocks.

Seems like it's you trying to put words in mouths because I post on match threads if a manager gets something wrong tactically, that football talk on a football forum during a game!

Again, what actual point are you trying to make? These accounts are from when we were in League 1 and got relegated yet you are seemingly trying to use them to say the manager can't possibly be under performing this season in League 2?

Can you explain what it is people are actually falling for?

 

[wingy]

Which will be the same for all clubs, so for Walsall who we've been told our wages were £1m more than, they will still be paying support staff, etc, management, etc and players as part of their whole wage bill. You then have to make the assumption the ratio wage bills that are spend on players and not playing staff is around the same for most clubs so you can gauge roughly where your wage bill sits in the context of the league.

I maintain that ours would have been nowhere near bottom 4, and we went down mainly due to poor management and recruitment.

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I'm not saying otherwise although there are some exceptions.
What I am saying is that his stated aim is undeliverable and he should be straight about it, also that it has and is going the opposite way.

 

[Nick]

I'm not saying otherwise although there are some exceptions.
What I am saying is that his stated aim is undeliverable and he should be straight about it, also that it has and is going the opposite way.

Where does the 35/40% etc wages from turnover come from? Is that something he has said? I haven't paid much attention to that bit.

Is that this year in League 2?

 

[skybluetony176]

Seems like it's you trying to put words in mouths because I post on match threads if a manager gets something wrong tactically, that football talk on a football forum during a game!

Again, what actual point are you trying to make? These accounts are from when we were in League 1 and got relegated yet you are seemingly trying to use them to say the manager can't possibly be under performing this season in League 2?

Can you explain what it is people are actually falling for?

Ha ha ha “If the manager gets something wrong technically”. Like you’d know better than an ex professional footballer who played at the highest level in football under one of the greatest managers of all times and has carved out a management career of his own. Yeah OK. Talk about being full of yourself. You’re even too ignorant to consider that actually he’s only making the best of the tools provided and what he can do with that and sometimes that means available resources leaves with limited tactical options. You were all over the game on Tuesday with your “superior” knowledge. Turned out the manager got it right and all things considered we pulled a result out of the bag because he didn’t listen to an idiot like you who thinks they’re never wrong.

I’ve made my point not only in the first place but also dumbed it down for you in the reply where you try to put words in my mouth.

I’ll dumb it down another notch for you. OUR BUDGET IS NEVER AS GOOD AS CERTAIN PEOPLE AT THE CLUB WOULD TRY AND HAVE YOU BELIEVE. THAT GETS EXPOSED EVERY TIME THE ACCOUNTS ARE FILED AND DUMB ASSES LIKE YOU BUY IT EVERY SEASON AND GET ON PERFECTLY CAPABLE MANAGERS BACKS WHO IN ACTUAL FACT ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE OVERACHIEVING OR ARE BANG ON BUDGET IN RELATION TO THE TABLE THAN UNDERACHIEVING. WHY DONT YOU TRY SUPPORTING THE MANAGER FOR A CHANGE AND RATHER THAN THINKING YOU KNOW BETTER THAN HIM ACCEPT THAT ACTUALLY HE’S DOING A GOOD JOB OVER A WHOLE SEASON GIVEN THE AVAILABLE RESOURCES. Simple enough for you.

 

[Nick]

Which will be the same for all clubs, so for Walsall who we've been told our wages were £1m more than, they will still be paying support staff, etc, management, etc and players as part of their whole wage bill. You then have to make the assumption the ratio wage bills that are spend on players and not playing staff is around the same for most clubs so you can gauge roughly where your wage bill sits in the context of the league.

I maintain that ours would have been nowhere near bottom 4, and we went down mainly due to poor management and recruitment.

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I have had a quick Google and it looks like a lot of clubs are due at the end of March, Walsall's were filed in December which shows their full wages and staff costs (all staff / players etc) at £3.38 million.

They had 82 players and coaching and 46 other staff, we had 129 and 11. They don't show stewards though so not sure if they outsource or file it under something else? Might be one for OSB?

 

[Nick]

Ha ha ha “If the manager gets something wrong technically”. Like you’d know better than an ex professional footballer who played at the highest level in football under one of the greatest managers of all times and has carved out a management career of his own. Yeah OK. Talk about being full of yourself. You’re even too ignorant to consider that actually he’s only making the best of the tools provided and what he can do with that and sometimes that means available resources leaves with limited tactical options. You were all over the game on Tuesday with your “superior” knowledge. Turned out the manager got it right and all things considered we pulled a result out of the bag because he didn’t listen to an idiot like you who thinks they’re never wrong.

I’ve made my point not only in the first place but also dumbed it down for you in the reply where you try to put words in my mouth.

I’ll dumb it down another notch for you. OUR BUDGET IS NEVER AS GOOD AS CERTAIN PEOPLE AT THE CLUB WOULD TRY AND HAVE YOU BELIEVE. THAT GETS EXPOSED EVERY TIME THE ACCOUNTS ARE FILED AND DUMB ASSES LIKE YOU BUY IT EVERY SEASON AND GET ON PERFECTLY CAPABLE MANAGERS BACKS WHO IN ACTUAL FACT ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE OVERACHIEVING OR ARE BANG ON BUDGET IN RELATION TO THE TABLE THAN UNDERACHIEVING. WHY DONT YOU TRY SUPPORTING THE MANAGER FOR A CHANGE AND RATHER THAN THINKING YOU KNOW BETTER THAN HIM ACCEPT THAT ACTUALLY HE’S DOING A GOOD JOB OVER A WHOLE SEASON GIVEN THE AVAILABLE RESOURCES. Simple enough for you.

I was all over the game on Tuesday yes, the one where I wanted us to win and the manager has said himself he was happy to go with the draw. We got a penalty from a mistake from their defender that let Bayliss through, it was our only shot on target. Let's not pretend it was a tactical masterclass that won us the game.

I support the manager and the players every game, it doesn't mean I can't discuss if I think they got something wrong during the game or the team was setup wrong or on the other hand if they get something right. You should try it sometime, you are an expert on accounts and politics but nowhere to be seen if the discussion is actually football on a football forum which you seem to strangely have an issue with.

It seems you don't actually have a point, these accounts show nothing about Tuesday or for this season do they where multiple people have questioned Robins setup / tactics?

 

[skybluetony176]

I was all over the game on Tuesday yes, the one where I wanted us to win and the manager has said himself he was happy to go with the draw. We got a penalty from a mistake from their defender that let Bayliss through, it was our only shot on target. Let's not pretend it was a tactical masterclass that won us the game.

I support the manager and the players every game, it doesn't mean I can't discuss if I think they got something wrong during the game or the team was setup wrong or on the other hand if they get something right. You should try it sometime, you are an expert on accounts and politics but nowhere to be seen if the discussion is actually football on a football forum which you seem to have an issue with.

It seems you don't actually have a point, these accounts show nothing about Tuesday or for this season do they?

These accounts prove that the pattern continues. Are you expecting this season to be any different? If so based on what? It also proves Nick is never wrong.

 

[wingy]

Where does the 35/40% etc wages from turnover come from? Is that something he has said? I haven't paid much attention to that bit.

Is that this year in League 2?

My sums Nick.
It's all in my posts.
Anyone want to pull it apart OK with me.

 

[Nick]

These accounts prove that the pattern continues. Are you expecting this season to be any different? If so based on what? It also proves Nick is never wrong.

I am expecting us to have a more competitive budget in League 2 than we did in League 1 yes. Mainly because the average budgets are lower in League 2. I'd also hazard a guess our budget wasn't bottom 4 last year.

It's all well and good saying "Nick is never wrong" but make your actual point, you don't like it when anybody questions a manager because to you it's as simple as their "hands are tied" so they can do what they want.

 

[Nick]

My sums Nick.
It's all in my posts.
Anyone want to pull it apart OK with me.

Wasn't trying to pull it apart, more see how you worked it out to get the player only percentage from turnover to try and then see how it compared. (Obviously all rough estimates rather than 100% bang on figures before somebody says that!)

 

[ceetee]

You can be certain that the accrued debt is what keeps Sisu hear.
Every day it gets bigger and effectively locks Sisu more into the club.
I'm no accountant but wouldn't debt in the club show a a positive on the balance sheet if it's assumed it will be paid at some point, even if it never will.
Rolling that on, if they did leave or liquidate the club then that positive is lost.

I think that's correct and is probably the only thing that keeps them here and the club unsolved. People need to understand that.