Club’s owners “not prepared to take on the risk” of sharing the Ricoh (8 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Glad to see the usual sisu sympathisers are turning this thread into another bash at wasps.

Basically look at the facts. When Cov moved to sixfields attendances dropped to 1,500. Look at that compared to wasps. Attendances from 4,000 to 23,000.

What does that tell you?

The same as when 23,000 used to watch CCFC when they first turned up at the Ricoh.

Coventry likes a new bandwagon experience. Boredom and apathy awaits round the corner though.

Still they can move again I suppose then can't they?

 

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[Moff]

Overnight we have become a Rugby powerhouse with 2 teams doing well in the area.

Fucking hell, that is quote of the week.

I hope CRFC win every game left this season, and get a trophy, but I wouldnt say wasps are the new powerhouse until they win something, and as yet like evryone else in the league and cup they have won fuck all. Qualifying as one of the best second placed teams in the Euro Cup doesnt suddenly make you Toulouse, jesus take off your rose tinted glasses. Even I accept my team the Saints will struggle to get further in the Cup whilst you are off in cuckoo land.

 

[Noggin]

So because I replied with a different opinion in direct reply to his post people don't like it?

You did not respond with a different opinion, you responded with inflammatory nonsense, The opposite opinion to believing the wasps move is understandable and can be justified while knowing it absolutely sucks for their fans is a perfectly reasonable well I'm against moving a club for any reason even if the owners believe its necessary, thats a perfectly legitimate view, However "If people love franchising, they won't moan if CCFC gets moved to somewhere else and pulls in bigger crowds than it currently is then?" is wumming

No, my view is that if people say "Tim Fisher always speaks bullshit, tim fisher is a lying bastard" they shouldn't then suddenly believe certain things and use them as hardcore evidence to make them look bad.

Well there is 2 options here, either Sisus bid was never sincere or Tim Fisher is outright lying to the faces of the SCG/SG, which ever it is is worthy of discussion, but you haven't even commented on it, instead going off on your tirade about franchising again.

So it is a WUM to basically take people's arguments for Wasps and turn them round and ask how it would be if it was CCFC? Not sure how that is wumming to be honest. If me asking "would that be ok if it was CCFC" really upsets people then maybe that says it all.

You aren't turning around peoples arguments. you are attacking based on false equivalences. The people who understand that perhaps there was legitimate reasons for wasps move don't love franchising, they all know it absolutely fucking sucks for the London Wasp fans, they would all be upset should it happen to us (not that the situations are remotely similar)

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell, that is quote of the week.

I hope CRFC win every game left this season, and get a trophy, but I wouldnt say wasps are the new powerhouse until they win something, and as yet like evryone else in the league and cup they have won fuck all. Qualifying as one of the best second placed teams in the Euro Cup doesnt suddenly make you Toulouse, jesus take off your rose tinted glasses. Even I accept my team the Saints will struggle to get further in the Cup whilst you are off in cuckoo land.

I think actually he's in wumming land.

 

[Noggin]

I don't need to justify anything, I went to watch my team play football.

The OP was about Tim Fisher now only speaking the truth. No mention of the Wasps deal being 100% from the start.

see your wumming again, don't worry Grendel is here to help. This place will be like gmk the way things are going.

 

[italiahorse]

Fucking hell, that is quote of the week.

I hope CRFC win every game left this season, and get a trophy, but I wouldnt say wasps are the new powerhouse until they win something, and as yet like evryone else in the league and cup they have won fuck all. Qualifying as one of the best second placed teams in the Euro Cup doesnt suddenly make you Toulouse, jesus take off your rose tinted glasses. Even I accept my team the Saints will struggle to get further in the Cup whilst you are off in cuckoo land.

I stand by my quote, it relates to Coventry in general not Wasps !!

"Overnight we have become a Rugby powerhouse with 2 teams doing well in the area.
This time last year nobody was talking or supporting Rugby now it's big news"

 

[Grendel]

You did not respond with a different opinion, you responded with inflammatory nonsense, The opposite opinion to believing the wasps move is understandable and can be justified while knowing it absolutely sucks for their fans is a perfectly reasonable well I'm against moving a club for any reason even if the owners believe its necessary, thats a perfectly legitimate view, However "If people love franchising, they won't moan if CCFC gets moved to somewhere else and pulls in bigger crowds than it currently is then?" is wumming



Well there is 2 options here, either Sisus bid was never sincere or Tim Fisher is outright lying to the faces of the SCG/SG, which ever it is is worthy of discussion, but you haven't even commented on it, instead going off on your tirade about franchising again.



You aren't turning around peoples arguments. you are attacking based on false equivalences. The people who understand that perhaps there was legitimate reasons for wasps move don't love franchising, they all know it absolutely fucking sucks for the London Wasp fans, they would all be upset should it happen to us (not that the situations are remotely similar)

The reason for the move was an insistence from the wasps CEO that the club had to own and control it's own revenues for 365 days a year.

That became a priority above location.

So by your own argument if sisu and fisher want that also it's justifiable. So a move say to Dublin would be fine if that's achieved.

Of course it would "suck" for those in coventry left behind but if that is a business goal it clearly is legitimate.

 

[Thenose]

I think the original poster hit it on the head, but missed one massive point.

Why on earth would Wasps get involved with SISU. It would be like marrying a crack whore prostitute who beat her children and then complaining she took drugs, cheated on her and was orrible to the kids.

SISU have made a name for themselves, unfortunately it is an extremely bad name.

Wasps should be polite, friendly and hospitable and wait until SISU are replaced by new owners who hopefully will be much nicer people...

 

[Moff]

see your wumming again, don't worry Grendel is here to help. This place will be like gmk the way things are going.

Isnt that wumming the wumming?

 

[italiahorse]

I think actually he's in wumming land.

.... and your contribution to the post as usual is Sweet FA.

 

[rondog1973]

I don't need to justify anything, I went to watch my team play football.

The OP was about Tim Fisher now only speaking the truth. No mention of the Wasps deal being 100% from the start.

Laughable, truly laughable.

As the OP suggests, the bid was put in to make it look like there was a desire to obtain a share of the Ricoh by fair legitimate means. What Fisher has said of late pretty much exposes that as a sham. There, bullshit you see. You just want to promote the idea that we should treat absolutely everything he says as bullshit because it promotes your rather frail argument. It's tactical bullshit, said to explain/justify a situation at a particular moment in time.

Doesn't really matter anyway what he says, he doesn't make the decisions. He's just the patsy prepared to take a wage to try and explain them away.

 

[The Lurker]

The same as when 23,000 used to watch CCFC when they first turned up at the Ricoh.

Coventry likes a new bandwagon experience. Boredom and apathy awaits round the corner though.

Still they can move again I suppose then can't they?

We were averaging 18,000 a game when sisu took over. Now it's down to 6,000-7,000 now! Not because of a bandwagon culture. Because fans have had enough of court cases, temporary move to sixfields, lack of investment, constant bullshit etc... But hey lets just forget all that and knock wasps because it's easier.

 

[Moff]

I stand by my quote, it relates to Coventry in general not Wasps !!

"Overnight we have become a Rugby powerhouse with 2 teams doing well in the area.
This time last year nobody was talking or supporting Rugby now it's big news"

Yes the lastline is correct, but the first line is a fucking joke. I will bet you wasps win fuck all this season. If you want a Rugby powerhouse lookeast to Northampton or Leicester.

Besides yesterday when it suited you, you told Grendel you werent from Coventry, now you delusionally think its some fekkin powerhouse you are quick to move over the border. Jesus you just sound like the most pathetic bandwagoner fanboy

 

[Nick]

You did not respond with a different opinion, you responded with inflammatory nonsense, The opposite opinion to believing the wasps move is understandable and can be justified while knowing it absolutely sucks for their fans is a perfectly reasonable well I'm against moving a club for any reason even if the owners believe its necessary, thats a perfectly legitimate view, However "If people love franchising, they won't moan if CCFC gets moved to somewhere else and pulls in bigger crowds than it currently is then?" is wumming



Well there is 2 options here, either Sisus bid was never sincere or Tim Fisher is outright lying to the faces of the SCG/SG, which ever it is is worthy of discussion, but you haven't even commented on it, instead going off on your tirade about franchising again.



You aren't turning around peoples arguments. you are attacking based on false equivalences. The people who understand that perhaps there was legitimate reasons for wasps move don't love franchising, they all know it absolutely fucking sucks for the London Wasp fans, they would all be upset should it happen to us (not that the situations are remotely similar)

Really? So when senior fan figures said that they couldn't give a shit about Wasps fans or "couldn't care where they came from" I must have missed people saying anything different and challenging them? Oh yes, a couple of people did but just the SISU lovers.

SISU's bid was obviously just done to save face in my opinion, they had been pressured into it by the public "come and place a bid, it is down to CCFC now" but I think they knew full well it wasn't going to happen because of the ownership fiasco and the Veto. intheknow who is "always correct" has said that the deal was 100% from the start so I don't think Wasps would have gone to the trouble of moving here just for 50%.

There is a difference between understanding something and going out of their way to defend and justify something though? I can fully understand that they have moved here to tap into the market, business wise I can see that. Just think back to when we moved away, we were best friends with MK Dons and totally against this sort of thing but now it is ok and we will justify it and support it?

If SISU came out tomorrow and said "We are going to move to (Insert city here around 80 miles away), we will have our own stadium, our own revenue and we are going to hit the PR hard (yes unbelievable I know) on long term the club will grow" then I would be the first to say get to shit, that is wrong and I would be just as passionate as the rest. I would and could understand WHY they were doing it, but it would be totally wrong wouldn't it?

 

[italiahorse]

The reason for the move was an insistence from the wasps CEO that the club had to own and control it's own revenues for 365 days a year.

That became a priority above location.

So by your own argument if sisu and fisher want that also it's justifiable. So a move say to Dublin would be fine if that's achieved.

Of course it would "suck" for those in coventry left behind but if that is a business goal it clearly is legitimate.

It's getting close to welcoming a CCFC move to Dublin as long as Sisu went with them

 

[Nick]

Yes the lastline is correct, but the first line is a fucking joke. I will bet you wasps win fuck all this season. If you want a Rugby powerhose lookeast to Northampton or Leicester.

Besides yesterday when it suited you, you told Grendel you werent from Coventry, now you delusionally think its some fekkin powerhouse you are quick to move over the border. Jesus you just sound like the most pathetic bandwagoner fanboy

I seem to remember a discussion a while ago (I think it was something to do with fans not being true fans if they aren't from Coventry) when he was from Coventry and I pointed out that he keeps typing things about him being from Bedworth and got an earful. I think he does move back and forth when it suits.

 

[Noggin]

The reason for the move was an insistence from the wasps CEO that the club had to own and control it's own revenues for 365 days a year.

That became a priority above location.

So by your own argument if sisu and fisher want that also it's justifiable. So a move say to Dublin would be fine if that's achieved.

Of course it would "suck" for those in coventry left behind but if that is a business goal it clearly is legitimate.

the wumming master.

no that isn't my argument and you know that, I have never made an argument on the wasps move. I've said all along I don't know the circumstances well enough to judge weather or not it really was necessary for their survival to move. So I have never taken a position on the wasps move other than to say it absolutely sucks for their fans.

anyway my last post on the matter, its just wasting everyones time to argue with you who does nothing but deliberately and knowingly misrepresent peoples views

 

[Nick]

the wumming master.

no that isn't my argument and you know that, I have never made an argument on the wasps move. I've said all along I don't know the circumstances well enough to judge weather or not it really was necessary for their survival to move. So I have never taken a position on the wasps move other than to say it absolutely sucks for their fans.

anyway my last post on the matter, its just wasting everyones time to argue with you who does nothing but deliberately and knowingly misrepresent peoples views

I agree, it isn't good for their fans and I have said all along they are the ones I feel for. If they can make it to the Ricoh then fair play to them and I hope they do enjoy it. If they can't then I do feel sorry for them as they have lost their club.

 

[italiahorse]

Yes the lastline is correct, but the first line is a fucking joke. I will bet you wasps win fuck all this season. If you want a Rugby powerhouse lookeast to Northampton or Leicester.

Besides yesterday when it suited you, you told Grendel you werent from Coventry, now you delusionally think its some fekkin powerhouse you are quick to move over the border. Jesus you just sound like the most pathetic bandwagoner fanboy

I live less than a mile from the Ricoh and walking up there for top class sport is a bonus.
Wasps will draw from the surrounding areas the same as CCFC so you can relate "area" to Warwickshire, West Midland , Oxfordshire, Shropshire etc

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Nick.....I don't know wether you didn't see my post or you deliberately didn't answer it. So I'll ask again.....Have you, or do you watch Solihull Barons(Blaze) at the Sky Dome? Simple question really.

 

[Moff]

I live less than a mile from the Ricoh and walking up there for top class sport is a bonus.
Wasps will draw from the surrounding areas the same as CCFC so you can relate "area" to Warwickshire, West Midland , Oxfordshire, Shropshire etc

Oh so today you are from Coventry home of powehouse rugby:sarcasm:

When you say Shropshire, do you mean staffordshire as why would anyone travel past Worcester to see some team they have no affinity to play in Coventry, and I presume when you say Oxfordshire you have been drinking, as its a Saints stronghold, as well as where London welsh play. I mean why would fans desert the Champions to watch your shower of shit.

You sound like an American talking about soccer. Why dont you leave Rugby to the adults, I mean I know i dont agree with MMM all the time but at least I can have a meaningfull discussion about Rugby, without some five minute fan ejaculating about a few wins.

 

[italiahorse]

@ Nick.....I don't know wether you didn't see my post or you deliberately didn't answer it. So I'll ask again.....Have you, or do you watch Solihull Barons(Blaze) at the Sky Dome? Simple question really.

I have never been but why did they move ?
Is it and adult thing or is it more kid orientated ? (Just my naive impression)

 

[skybluetony176]

OK, so I will wait for you to have a go at Norman who I was replying to?

Is this information from Tim Fisher, the bloke who couldn't lie straight in bed or Tim Fisher the bloke who only speaks the truth by the way? Are we believing everything he says this week when it can be used against him?

Has anybody asked Wasps whether they would sell CCFC 50%? I doubt they would.
Was there ever any chance of us getting 50% once Wasps got the first 50%? Nope.

It personally sounds like sour grapes to me in those comments.

Ah. The old TF lies or tells the truth when it suits line. The get SISU out of jail free card as used by SISU apologists. Whether you believe him or not doesn't come into it. His latest statement contradicts what happened and I have no doubt that if this contradiction had came from AL you and the rest of your clique would have run up a 52 page thread about it. And that's why you get labeled a SISU apologist.

TF's latest statement also blows out of the water the SISU made a better offer than Wasps and wasps got it for a snip difficult to sell.

 

[Otis]

This is all getting very tedious. Same arguments again and again and despite some people painting things as simply black and white, it is pretty much as always, anything but.

As OSB said the other day, we really need to look forwards, not backwards.

No-one wants Coventry City to move to Dublin. Hardly anyone wanted Wasps here. Hardly anyone trusts Sisu and most are now not happy with the council either. Let's just concentrate on where we go from here. These endless arguments on here are never going to be won.

To me it seems that a new stadium is just fantasy talk and we are still no futher forwards at all, so it looks like one of 2 things need to happen. New ownership or trying to get a stonger foothold in the Ricoh and trying to seek a better deal with Wasps.

Pointless re-treading the old arguments over and over. It is not going to get us anywhere.

 

[italiahorse]

Oh so today you are from Coventry home of powehouse rugby:sarcasm:

When you say Shropshire, do you mean staffordshire as why would anyone travel past Worcester to see some team they have no affinity to play in Coventry, and I presume when you say Oxfordshire you have been drinking, as its a Saints stronghold, as well as where London welsh play. I mean why would fans desert the Champions to watch your shower of shit.

You sound like an American talking about soccer. Why dont you leave Rugby to the adults, I mean I know i dont agree with MMM all the time but at least I can have a meaningfull discussion about Rugby, without some five minute fan ejaculating about a few wins.

Hit a nerve have I ?
Can you not relate to people going to watch sport to just enjoy it ?
For interest I spoke to a lot of fans while socialising before and after the match and they were typical of the areas they were coming from.
Admire your passion, but grow up.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I have never been but why did they move ? Is it and adult thing or is it more kid orientated ? (Just my naive impression)

Originally from the neighbouring town of Solihull, the Coventry Blaze evolved from the Solihull Barons to become the Solihull Blaze in 1996. In order to attract a new and larger fanbase the team moved to Coventry in 2000 and continue to occupy the 3000-seat SkyDome Arena.........................................................................To me this says no other reason for the move than MONEY! They are a Solihull team who I had the privilege of playing against. Nothing more than franchising.

 

[duffer]

Not all that simple though is it, some sports like Football have long standing historical presence and tradition in all towns & cities in England.
Rugby has quite comprehensive coverage & long heritage, but is being priced out of London and its environs, hence the migration of several teams to the Midlands.
Other sports either have less coverage and popularity (Speedway) or much less long history (Ice Hockey), so are more flexible, having to adapt to circumstances.
Some sports are so naturally conservative (cricket), there is little prospect of location churn.

Sorry, you are like a stuck record and haven't analysed the facts.

With respect Jack, rugby's not being priced out of London, but certain owners think they can make more elsewhere and the game's administrators are lax in taking control. The only team that's moved to the midlands, other than Wasps, are London Welsh - and that's turning out to be a utter disaster on the pitch in terms of results and off the pitch in terms of attendances.

This is a franchise, pure and simple. The best proof of it is the owner's interview when he first took over Wasps in which he said himself, Wasps is a London club. They've been based in an and around West London for most of their history, and then moved out to Wycombe. Not ideal, but at least relatively close to that side of town.

People are welcome to go to Wasps, as they are welcome to go to MK Dons, but let's not say it's something it isn't.

 

[dongonzalos]

21 million to buy the land if we get the land at a dirt cheap price.
Then you have to build your stadium.
We are going to be at the Ricoh for a long time.
The most sensible thing for the club is a partnership with wasps in whatever guise and a long term commitment to the Ricoh.

However I don't think that option is best for SISU (it is for the club). So I think we will be stuck with a drawn out process of "building a new stadium" whilst watching and hoping Wasps struggle with giving wasps as little money as possible.
It's going to be a tedious 5-7 years IMO.

 

[duffer]

21 million to buy the land if we get the land at a dirt cheap price.
Then you have to build your stadium.
We are going to be at the Ricoh for a long time.
The most sensible thing for the club is a partnership with wasps in whatever guise and a long term commitment to the Ricoh.

However I don't think that option is best for SISU (it is for the club). So I think we will be stuck with a drawn out process of "building a new stadium" whilst watching and hoping Wasps struggle with giving wasps as little money as possible.
It's going to be a tedious 5-7 years IMO.

I'm still confused as to what this 'partnership with Wasps' is supposed to be.

Even assuming SISU had a change of heart and wanted to buy into ACL, is there any evidence anywhere that Wasps would want to sell?

Edit: Just on the cost of land - the suggestion is upwards of £100,000 per acre for green-belt, and a lot more (c. £650,000) for stuff with permission for houses. Let's say the club can get something for £200k/acre, and are looking at 25 acres (equivalent to Brandon), that would be more like £5m for the land. I think. Still has to be £20m at least for the stadium complete though, I'd agree - and it's going to be smaller, obviously.

 

[Otis]

I'm still confused as to what this 'partnership with Wasps' is supposed to be.

Even assuming SISU had a change of heart and wanted to buy into ACL, is there any evidence anywhere that Wasps would want to sell?

Guess it all boils down to whether Wasps need us there or not.

 

[duffer]

Guess it all boils down to whether Wasps need us there or not.

I'm sure they'd like us there - £100k+ per year plus added revenue from ACL is no small amount of money.

But again, is there any evidence that they would allow us to buy into ACL? I see a lot of people here say that we need to get into partnership with Wasps - has there been even a suggestion anywhere that they'd be happy to sell to us?

I can't help but to make the point that if Wasps do well at the Ricoh in terms of attendances, they'll need CCFC even less. There's a thought, eh.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Nick....I've made numerous posts today, asking you a question. You have made 6 posts after my first one, yet fail to answer, why? You are usually "On my posts instantly"....I'll ask the question once more.....Have you, or do you, watch Solihull Barons(Blaze) at the Sky Dome?

 

[The Lurker]

@ Nick....I've made numerous posts today, asking you a question. You have made 6 posts after my first one, yet fail to answer, why? You are usually "On my posts instantly"....I'll ask the question once more.....Have you, or do you, watch Solihull Barons(Blaze) at the Sky Dome?

If it makes him look silly then don't expect an answer.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm still confused as to what this 'partnership with Wasps' is supposed to be.

Even assuming SISU had a change of heart and wanted to buy into ACL, is there any evidence anywhere that Wasps would want to sell?

Edit: Just on the cost of land - the suggestion is upwards of £100,000 per acre for green-belt, and a lot more (c. £650,000) for stuff with permission for houses. Let's say the club can get something for £200k/acre, and are looking at 25 acres (equivalent to Brandon), that would be more like £5m for the land. I think. Still has to be £20m at least for the stadium complete though, I'd agree - and it's going to be smaller, obviously.

Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues.

He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking “18 months”.

 

[dongonzalos]

Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues.

He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking “18 months”.

The subsequent sale process saw Prologis successfully close the land deal with a bid of £650,000 per acre.

• The price of land ranges from £100,000 per acre for Greenbelt to £350,000-£400,000 being the current market value for Commercial use.

£350,000 is the cheapest we will get as it is for commercial use.