Climate change and activists (14 Viewers)

[Nick]

Proper tax on fuel.
Your plan is all fine if there’s affordable public transport across the country but there isn’t in the UK; trains especially are a massive rip off, especially if you have to book at short notice.

Make fuel that expensive that people have to use the expensive, terrible trains else they go bankrupt.

 

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[Marty]

Sounds like the solution for some on here is to get the poor people of the roads.

 

[shmmeee]

Proper tax on fuel.
Your plan is all fine if there’s affordable public transport across the country but there isn’t in the UK; trains especially are a massive rip off, especially if you have to book at short notice.

Yes proper tax. lol lol lol but facts don’t care about your feelings and take on fuel duty has basically been frozen for twenty years because motorists are whiny bitches every time they’re asked to pay their share.

 

[shmmeee]

Sounds like the solution for some on here is to get the poor people of the roads.

The poor people aren’t on the roads. We could raise other taxes but makes sense that motorists pay their way.

 

[Nick]

The poor people aren’t on the roads. We could raise other taxes but makes sense that motorists pay their way.

What would you increase for motorists?

Taxes are going up even for EVs so it isn't even as if it's being done on emissions.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What would you increase for motorists?

Taxes are going up even for EVs so it isn't even as if it's being done on emissions.

Fuel duty has been frozen for 14 years. People in the richest 20% of the population on average do three times as many miles as those in the poorest 20% of the population.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do the government not provide taxi's for people on benefits etc for taking kids to school etc or am I making that up

In practice Mrs BSB who has an eye condition that bars her from driving uses her PIP on trains/buses/Ubers to get around

 

[Nick]

Fuel duty has been frozen for 14 years. People in the richest 20% of the population on average do three times as many miles as those in the poorest 20% of the population.

So increase fuel duty? Increase road tax based on mileage?

Is the answer to try and making driving more expensive than a terrible, over priced public transport?

 

[rob9872]

So fuel tax goes up, which means the cost of goods and services need to go up, so everyone expects more wages to pay for them ...

 

[fernandopartridge]

road tax based on mileage?

I think that's a much fairer model yes

 

[Nick]

I think that's a much fairer model yes

Insurance etc is already more for mileage (obviously because of the risk).

Fuel duty and the vat is already a tax based on mileage isn't it?

One of the things needed to push to EVs is cheaper public charging. When I looked into it a couple of months ago, it wasn't much cheaper and obviously takes an age of sitting at a petrol station.

 

[fatso]

So fuel tax goes up, which means the cost of goods and services need to go up, so everyone expects more wages to pay for them ...

Exactly, it just leads to massive inflation,
Which is why it's a stupid suggestion.
As is pay by the mile, which hits haulage companies who put their prices up which means goods on the shelves go up which means more inflation.

Barmy.

 

[wingy]

Proper tax on fuel?

Think your graph shows there's an issue with public transport pricing.

No economy of scale applied to public is the problem.

 

[SBT]

So fuel tax goes up, which means the cost of goods and services need to go up, so everyone expects more wages to pay for them ...

Tax hikes are inflationary now?

 

[rob9872]

Fuel duty has been frozen for 14 years. People in the richest 20% of the population on average do three times as many miles as those in the poorest 20% of the population.

So rich people are paying 3 x the amount of the poorer people into the pot as they will pay 3 x the cost of the fuel they spend. I'd have thought this was a fair model you'd support?

*edit: I'd also assume that the poorest are not travelling far to earn their income / benefits.

 

[wingy]

Insurance etc is already more for mileage (obviously because of the risk).

Fuel duty and the vat is already a tax based on mileage isn't it?

One of the things needed to push to EVs is cheaper public charging. When I looked into it a couple of months ago, it wasn't much cheaper and obviously takes an age of sitting at a petrol station.

It won't remain so.

 

[rob9872]

Tax hikes are inflationary now?

Tell me which part of my post you think you disagree with then? You assume that businesses now paying more to transport their goods around won't pass that onto the consumer or do you think the public will just accept those increase coming out of their disposable income and say oh that's ok I have loads of money anyway? Of course it will affect inflation.

 

[wingy]

Let's start charging by the mile £5 should do it!

 

[chiefdave]

This thread is mental, even by this forums standards.

Its gone from people insisting having affordable, reliable, frequent public transport will have zero impact on the number of cars on the roads, the reason given being all public transport is shit and doesn't go door to door.

Less than 12 hours later its car drivers shouldn't be taxed more to pay for a working public transport system for those who are unable or can't afford to drive as public transport is fantastic and can get them anywhere they need to be for next to no cost.

Not to mention the revelation that if you're poor you basically shouldn't be allowed to travel anywhere.

 

[Marty]

The poor people aren’t on the roads. We could raise other taxes but makes sense that motorists pay their way.

Well maybe not poor people in the traditional sense but I would say that's someone who's earning 30k with all the associated bills, house/rent, couple of kids etc, that'll have little to no disposable income.

ULEZ in London was something like £12 a day when it came in. Just going to and from work would add an additional £60 per week in transport costs. If you're barely scraping by anyway, that cost could push some families over the edge.

Most manufacturing places start early hours, so for me I would need to catch at least 2 buses into Birmingham at 5AM 5 days a week. I'm not sure they even run the buses at that time?

 

[rob9872]

Not to mention the revelation that if you're poor you basically shouldn't be allowed to travel anywhere.

Yes, keep them indoors, horrible, ugly people

 

[Nick]

This thread is mental, even by this forums standards.

Its gone from people insisting having affordable, reliable, frequent public transport will have zero impact on the number of cars on the roads, the reason given being all public transport is shit and doesn't go door to door.

Less than 12 hours later its car drivers shouldn't be taxed more to pay for a working public transport system for those who are unable or can't afford to drive as public transport is fantastic and can get them anywhere they need to be for next to no cost.

Not to mention the revelation that if you're poor you basically shouldn't be allowed to travel anywhere.

It's almost as if you have decided on all of that based on not much from things that haven't been said.

Who has said poor people shouldn't be allowed to travel?

You have made up scenarios and conclusions.

 

[chiefdave]

It's almost as if you have decided on all of that based on not much from things that haven't been said.

Who has said poor people shouldn't be allowed to travel?

You have made up scenarios and conclusions.

Literally on the same page you're commenting on

 

[Nick]

Literally on the same page you're commenting on

What we should do is tax drivers loads more and send all the money to Stagecoach so they can improve the bus services.

 

[wingy]

Well maybe not poor people in the traditional sense but I would say that's someone who's earning 30k with all the associated bills, house/rent, couple of kids etc, that'll have little to no disposable income.

ULEZ in London was something like £12 a day when it came in. Just going to and from work would add an additional £60 per week in transport costs. If you're barely scraping by anyway, that cost could push some families over the edge.

Most manufacturing places start early hours, so for me I would need to catch at least 2 buses into Birmingham at 5AM 5 days a week. I'm not sure they even run the buses at that time?

Property crash incoming , funny word that income/ incoming

 

[rob9872]

What we should do is waste more of the transport budget on things like HS2 and not using it to update or improve the expensive, outdated, dirty, inefficient services that we already have.

* and also - renationalise the fekkers away from greedy shitty companies who put profits above customers. I know it was poorly ran before they split them up, but it was a long time ago now.

 

[wingy]

The rush to solitary living while while on your perch,free range Humans,pah!

 

[rob9872]

Property crash incoming , funny word that income/ incoming

Yeah but not as funny as in cumming

 

[SBT]

Tell me which part of my post you think you disagree with then? You assume that businesses now paying more to transport their goods around won't pass that onto the consumer or do you think the public will just accept those increase coming out of their disposable income and say oh that's ok I have loads of money anyway? Of course it will affect inflation.

Or it will raise costs to a point where it dampens demand, which ultimately pushes prices lower…That would be the classic economic outcome anyway.

 

[Captain Dart]

You don’t know if crude oil is a finite resource?

Try answering my question instead of deflecting, how's Hydrogen transport research going?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Try answering my question instead of deflecting, how's Hydrogen transport research going?

It isn’t there yet but that isn’t the point, I haven’t claimed that it’s oven ready. It is however a sustainable and much cleaner fuel than petrol.

 

[Captain Dart]

It isn’t there yet but that isn’t the point, I haven’t claimed that it’s oven ready. It is however a sustainable and much cleaner fuel than petrol.

If it isn't there (ie it doesn't work) how can you rely on it, it's just another line of research that may or may not succeed to the scale required.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If it isn't there (ie it doesn't work) how can you rely on it, it's just another line of research that may or may not succeed to the scale required.

Because, as I keep saying to you, oil and gas are going to run out. But as a climate conspiracist, you don’t want to believe there’s any problem on the horizon.

 

[fatso]

What we should do is waste more of the transport budget on things like HS2 and not using it to update or improve the expensive, outdated, dirty, inefficient services that we already have.

* and also - renationalise the fekkers away from greedy shitty companies who put profits above customers. I know it was poorly ran before they split them up, but it was a long time ago now.

Time isnt going to make any difference, it might be 2025 but look how many local councils are poorly run or bankrupt.
Look at the madness in the NHS, all nationalisation would do is put the countries infrastructure in the hands of idiots who would be at the mercy of the unions.

(Much like most of the country is now tbf and has been for years)

 

[Captain Dart]

Because, as I keep saying to you, oil and gas are going to run out. But as a climate conspiracist, you don’t want to believe there’s any problem on the horizon.

So you're sure the world will run out of gas in how long, 50, 100 years and anyway the temperature will be intolerable by then.