Grendel
Well-Known Member
London is a massive metropolis - I said I’d take a train to London - I ain’t taking it to Newton abbot
But if it's essential to life how do people without a car function?
London is the biggest and richest city in the country yet has the largest proportion of non-drivers.
Like I said, it would require the vast majority of the people in the city to work in the city centre which they don't. If I got a job smack bang in the city centre then I'd probably look at public transport and compare.But if it's essential to life how do people without a car function?
London is the biggest and richest city in the country yet has the largest proportion of non-drivers.
Like I said, it would require the vast majority of the people in the city to work in the city centre which they don't.
That's when it would be comparable or worthwhile.
If the argument is public transport and give up cars then it needs to be worthwhile else people won't.
It's the same as the bike lanes.
Civic mindedness, save on parking charges,buy the bus under the present system, anyway I did use it for a while but daughter had an allergic reaction to possibly a deodorant and we are back to driving it,me personally I would still take the bus, God knows what it will be like this season trying to get out of parking.The fact is that for a lot of people even at it's very very best public transport is not going to be good enough. It's not going t take you from A to B If you've got children or an elderly person public transport can be an absolute nightmare, and it's just impossible to do a 'big shop' via public transport.
Of course I want public transport to be good and used as much as possible, but I have to accept that that's not going to be good enough for a large chunk of people.
Better shut down this forum then as none of us are professional footballers. You’ve also assumed that I don’t drive because I can’t, as opposed to it being a choice. It also doesn’t literally cost pence to buy a car, pay for insurance, road tax, fuel etc. Anyway.It’s true. The fact you asked if it was free. Someone’s paying - and it literally costs pence to drive.
No one who drives will want to take public transport locally. Why would they?
Better shut down this forum then as none of us are professional footballers. You’ve also assumed that I don’t drive because I can’t, as opposed to it being a choice. It also doesn’t literally cost pence to buy a car, pay for insurance, road tax, fuel etc. Anyway.
What’s clear is that cars need to shift from petrol and diesel as the fuel, given that a) it’s finite and b) having hundreds of millions of cars a day burning it will have consequences. Switching cars to hydrogen and generally making public transport more appealing would work to substantially reduce the impact of travel.
Driving did used to be essential in life, it no longer is. Does make things more convenient, no argument there.
Which is why I said it needs to be made easier to switch to objectively better for the environment fuels or modes of transport.It costs pence for that journey. I'd still need a car even if I was getting the bus to and from work so I'd need to pay for the rest anyway. The pence I said was the fuel cost for that journey.
Regardless of what fuel goes in the car, it would need to be beneficial to people to want to spend a fortune on a fancy fuel car.
If somebody says here's a very very very cheap electric car then I might think about it.i like the look of the new Renault 5's but I'm not going to spend 30k on one.
Driving is essential for everybody I know. Yes they wouldn't die if they didn't drive but they would probably lose jobs or have a couple of hours travel every day they don't have now.
A free bus isn't going to do it.Which is why I said it needs to be made easier to switch to objectively better for the environment fuels or modes of transport.
Eventually we are going to run out of crude oil and if we haven’t made more of an effort with hydrogen, EVs or both then we’ll have a much bigger problem.
Not for you but for some it might. You can’t get away from the fact that petrol won’t last forever, we need to put more effort into making alternatives viable.A free bus isn't going to do it.
If they want me to have an electric car then it comes down to money to purchase one.
It would be good to see the stats of how many people buy an electric car as opposed to those that are company cars, motability or some sort of scheme etc.
Not for you but for some it might. You can’t get away from the fact that petrol won’t last forever, we need to put more effort into making alternatives viable.
Boozing.It’s true. The fact you asked if it was free. Someone’s paying - and it literally costs pence to drive.
No one who drives will want to take public transport locally. Why would they?
If you live in the city and work in the city then public transport is fine and probably as or maybe even more convenient as cars, but until a bus comes down the street I live in to collect me from my door at a time of my choosing and takes me to my exact end location, not 50m or 100m away and the same for my return journey, then my car wins. It’s lazy, it's expensive, it's bad for the environment, it adds more risk, higher traffic but still the only choice and the only thing that comes close is an uber.
The problem is that you then create an even bigger divide with only the wealthy being able to afford to drive. The rest then face the prospect of paying rip off train and/or bus fares.Driving is shit these days. Most of your time is sat in traffic or average speed checks.
Whatever your personal beliefs you can’t fit one car per person in this country. We should go for Japans law where you can’t buy one if you can’t store it yourself. Or at least charge drivers for what they actually cost instead of subsidising them. Street parking should cost. Road tax should be about ten times what it is and illegal parking and driving should be cracked down on. If the existing laws on parking alone were followed you’d suddenly find it’s not so convenient for a lot.
As it happens…If you live in the city and work in the city then public transport is fine and probably as or maybe even more convenient as cars, but until a bus comes down the street I live in to collect me from my door at a time of my choosing and takes me to my exact end location, not 50m or 100m away and the same for my return journey, then my car wins. It’s lazy, it's expensive, it's bad for the environment, it adds more risk, higher traffic but still the only choice and the only thing that comes close is an uber.
The problem is that you then create an even bigger divide with only the wealthy being able to afford to drive. The rest then face the prospect of paying rip off train and/or bus fares.
I have a bus pass so the bus is free but I drive to the CBS.If it were free of charge as well would that make any difference?
Social justice doesn’t create more physical space. The complete lack of investment in other transport is a separate issue.
And the actually poor already don’t drive because they can’t afford it. TBH you sound like those disability activists who claim access to Uber Eats is a human right. People moved around just fine for years, and eve just been subsidising cars over everything else for a quarter of a century:
View attachment 44508
Charge for parking and put proper tax on fuel and road use and you’d soon find out how convenient it is.
We're all doomed unless we change everything immediately.Better shut down this forum then as none of us are professional footballers. You’ve also assumed that I don’t drive because I can’t, as opposed to it being a choice. It also doesn’t literally cost pence to buy a car, pay for insurance, road tax, fuel etc. Anyway.
What’s clear is that cars need to shift from petrol and diesel as the fuel, given that a) it’s finite and b) having hundreds of millions of cars a day burning it will have consequences. Switching cars to hydrogen and generally making public transport more appealing would work to substantially reduce the impact of travel.
Driving did used to be essential in life, it no longer is. Does make things more convenient, no argument there.
Not what I said, but ok. Or do you think that our supplies of oil are infinite and that demand for it won’t continue to increase?We're all doomed unless we change everything immediately.
I don't know. What's the state of hydrogen technology and fuel production, is it a mature technology, when are you buying a hydrogen powered vehicle?Not what I said, but ok. Or do you think that our supplies of oil are infinite and that demand for it won’t continue to increase?
You don’t know if crude oil is a finite resource?I don't know. What's the state of hydrogen technology and fuel production, is it a mature technology, when are you buying a hydrogen powered vehicle?
I'd love to not have to drive, but outside of London in this country it will take twice as long and probably cost twice as much.
The only place where it’s feasible is London.
Do the government not provide taxi's for people on benefits etc for taking kids to school etc or am I making that upThe point is that you and I have the luxury of choice. Poor people and disabled people and older and younger people don’t. For a quarter of a century those people have been subsidising drivers through free parking and storage of cars, below inflation rises in taxes and duties and huge investment in infrastructure at the expense of mass transit. That’s before we get to huge carbon subsidies.
All I’m saying is we should stop that, charge drivers appropriately and use the revenue to fund transport everyone can use.
There's over 50 years worth of crude oil left in known oil fields, and new oil fields are regularly being found, add to that the fact that previously hard to reach supplies will be viable with future improvements in extraction, and you realise that there's no worrying timescale on oil supplies.Eventually we are going to run out of crude oil and if we haven’t made more of an effort with hydrogen, EVs or both then we’ll have a much bigger problem.
Drivers are charged?The point is that you and I have the luxury of choice. Poor people and disabled people and older and younger people don’t. For a quarter of a century those people have been subsidising drivers through free parking and storage of cars, below inflation rises in taxes and duties and huge investment in infrastructure at the expense of mass transit. That’s before we get to huge carbon subsidies.
All I’m saying is we should stop that, charge drivers appropriately and use the revenue to fund transport everyone can use.
Do the government not provide taxi's for people on benefits etc for taking kids to school etc or am I making that up
Drivers are charged?
The next word was “appropriately”
They should give free transport to old people as well so they can get public transport when they can't drive.
I can see car ownership stopping completely in the next 50 years or so, with autonomous vehicles you will be able to book a driverless car to pick you up and drive you to work, then collect you at the end of your shift and take you home.The point is that you and I have the luxury of choice. Poor people and disabled people and older and younger people don’t. For a quarter of a century those people have been subsidising drivers through free parking and storage of cars, below inflation rises in taxes and duties and huge investment in infrastructure at the expense of mass transit. That’s before we get to huge carbon subsidies.
All I’m saying is we should stop that, charge drivers appropriately and use the revenue to fund transport everyone can use.
Proper tax on fuel.
Social justice doesn’t create more physical space. The complete lack of investment in other transport is a separate issue.
And the actually poor already don’t drive because they can’t afford it. TBH you sound like those disability activists who claim access to Uber Eats is a human right. People moved around just fine for years, and eve just been subsidising cars over everything else for a quarter of a century:
View attachment 44508
Charge for parking and put proper tax on fuel and road use and you’d soon find out how convenient it is.
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