Grendel
Well-Known Member
London is a massive metropolis - I said I’d take a train to London - I ain’t taking it to Newton abbot
Climate change and activists (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
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London is a massive metropolis - I said I’d take a train to London - I ain’t taking it to Newton abbot
Nick
Administrator
Like I said, it would require the vast majority of the people in the city to work in the city centre which they don't. If I got a job smack bang in the city centre then I'd probably look at public transport and compare.
That's when it would be comparable or worthwhile.
If the argument is public transport and give up cars then it needs to be worthwhile else people won't.
It's the same as the bike lanes.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Another example of someone who surely never leaves their house
Civic mindedness, save on parking charges,buy the bus under the present system, anyway I did use it for a while but daughter had an allergic reaction to possibly a deodorant and we are back to driving it,me personally I would still take the bus, God knows what it will be like this season trying to get out of parking.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Better shut down this forum then as none of us are professional footballers. You’ve also assumed that I don’t drive because I can’t, as opposed to it being a choice. It also doesn’t literally cost pence to buy a car, pay for insurance, road tax, fuel etc. Anyway.
What’s clear is that cars need to shift from petrol and diesel as the fuel, given that a) it’s finite and b) having hundreds of millions of cars a day burning it will have consequences. Switching cars to hydrogen and generally making public transport more appealing would work to substantially reduce the impact of travel.
Driving did used to be essential in life, it no longer is. Does make things more convenient, no argument there.
Nick
Administrator
It costs pence for that journey. I'd still need a car even if I was getting the bus to and from work so I'd need to pay for the rest anyway. The pence I said was the fuel cost for that journey.
Regardless of what fuel goes in the car, it would need to be beneficial to people to want to spend a fortune on a fancy fuel car.
If somebody says here's a very very very cheap electric car then I might think about it.i like the look of the new Renault 5's but I'm not going to spend 30k on one.
Driving is essential for everybody I know. Yes they wouldn't die if they didn't drive but they would probably lose jobs or have a couple of hours travel every day they don't have now.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Which is why I said it needs to be made easier to switch to objectively better for the environment fuels or modes of transport.
Eventually we are going to run out of crude oil and if we haven’t made more of an effort with hydrogen, EVs or both then we’ll have a much bigger problem.
Nick
Administrator
A free bus isn't going to do it.
If they want me to have an electric car then it comes down to money to purchase one.
It would be good to see the stats of how many people buy an electric car as opposed to those that are company cars, motability or some sort of scheme etc.
Edit, last year 82% of new EVs were to companies.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not for you but for some it might. You can’t get away from the fact that petrol won’t last forever, we need to put more effort into making alternatives viable.
Nick
Administrator
I can safely say that nobody I know is going to give up their car for a free bus pass.
Like I said, it comes down to the cost. The vast majority will be via a company where people are actually saving money by having one.
Asking Dave to swap his paid off, 10 year old focus for a 30k ev at 450 a month isn't going to happen.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Boozing.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
If you live in the city and work in the city then public transport is fine and probably as or maybe even more convenient as cars, but until a bus comes down the street I live in to collect me from my door at a time of my choosing and takes me to my exact end location, not 50m or 100m away and the same for my return journey, then my car wins. It’s lazy, it's expensive, it's bad for the environment, it adds more risk, higher traffic but still the only choice and the only thing that comes close is an uber.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Driving is shit these days. Most of your time is sat in traffic or average speed checks.
Whatever your personal beliefs you can’t fit one car per person in this country. We should go for Japans law where you can’t buy one if you can’t store it yourself. Or at least charge drivers for what they actually cost instead of subsidising them. Street parking should cost. Road tax should be about ten times what it is and illegal parking and driving should be cracked down on. If the existing laws on parking alone were followed you’d suddenly find it’s not so convenient for a lot.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The problem is that you then create an even bigger divide with only the wealthy being able to afford to drive. The rest then face the prospect of paying rip off train and/or bus fares.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
As it happens…
West Midlands Bus on Demand
West Midlands On-demand is a new type of bus service that doesn't follow a specific route. When you book a journey, a bus will pick you up at a time you choose.
www.tfwm.org.uk
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Social justice doesn’t create more physical space. The complete lack of investment in other transport is a separate issue.
And the actually poor already don’t drive because they can’t afford it. TBH you sound like those disability activists who claim access to Uber Eats is a human right. People moved around just fine for years, and eve just been subsidising cars over everything else for a quarter of a century:
Charge for parking and put proper tax on fuel and road use and you’d soon find out how convenient it is.
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I have a bus pass so the bus is free but I drive to the CBS.
If I use the bus it is 20m walk to the bus stop, the buses are fairly regular but even if you time it that's another 30m into town and another 45m to the Arena (includes 15m wait) and 10m to walk up. It can take much longer on the way back because you can't time it and as for doing that on a cold wet November night, sod that for a game of soldiers.
My real bad weather alternative is a pre booked fan coach from a local pub, but even then it is a 20m walk to the pub though I suppose I could find a parking spot near to it if I make the effort.
The car takes 45m each way including a 15m walk from my parking area to the stadium. It is much quicker and far more reliable.
However I have yet to try the dedicated bus from the rail/bus interchange so I will give it a go while the weather is still sunny, it might be ok even if it takes a bit longer because I don't think you can park near central 6 for free so I will have to get a bus to the rail/bus interchange.
Nick
Administrator
Social justice doesn’t create more physical space. The complete lack of investment in other transport is a separate issue.
And the actually poor already don’t drive because they can’t afford it. TBH you sound like those disability activists who claim access to Uber Eats is a human right. People moved around just fine for years, and eve just been subsidising cars over everything else for a quarter of a century:
View attachment 44508
Charge for parking and put proper tax on fuel and road use and you’d soon find out how convenient it is.
Proper tax on fuel?
Think your graph shows there's an issue with public transport pricing.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
We're all doomed unless we change everything immediately.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not what I said, but ok. Or do you think that our supplies of oil are infinite and that demand for it won’t continue to increase?We're all doomed unless we change everything immediately.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I don't know. What's the state of hydrogen technology and fuel production, is it a mature technology, when are you buying a hydrogen powered vehicle?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You don’t know if crude oil is a finite resource?
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
I'd love to not have to drive, but outside of London in this country it will take twice as long and probably cost twice as much.
The only place where its feasible is London.
The only place where its feasible is London.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The point is that you and I have the luxury of choice. Poor people and disabled people and older and younger people don’t. For a quarter of a century those people have been subsidising drivers through free parking and storage of cars, below inflation rises in taxes and duties and huge investment in infrastructure at the expense of mass transit. That’s before we get to huge carbon subsidies.
All I’m saying is we should stop that, charge drivers appropriately and use the revenue to fund transport everyone can use.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
Do the government not provide taxi's for people on benefits etc for taking kids to school etc or am I making that up
fatso
Well-Known Member
There's over 50 years worth of crude oil left in known oil fields, and new oil fields are regularly being found, add to that the fact that previously hard to reach supplies will be viable with future improvements in extraction, and you realise that there's no worrying timescale on oil supplies.
The effect of oil consumption on global warming is negligible when you consider the rate at which China is opening coal powered power stations, or the rate of pollution that emerging powers like India are creating.
If the whole world stopped burning fossil fuels tomorrow it wouldn't stop global warming, we need to work on adapting to global warming rather than finding ways to blame the populous in a futile way purely to tax them.
Nick
Administrator
Drivers are charged?
If people are disabled, they get transport paid for don't they? Old people free bus passes.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Should only be those with access issues or who are in care I think. But that brings me into another hobby horse: get school buses and ban all parking within x meters of the school. And yes I’m just as bad for this sometimes. But people need an iron hand against laziness dammit.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The next word was “appropriately”
Nick
Administrator
They should put some tax on fuel.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
They should give free transport to old people as well so they can get public transport when they can't drive.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I can see car ownership stopping completely in the next 50 years or so, with autonomous vehicles you will be able to book a driverless car to pick you up and drive you to work, then collect you at the end of your shift and take you home.
In the mean time that car will go off and take numerous other people to work and kids to school and mum to the shops and granny to her hospital appointment etc all before picking you up from work.
This will massively reduce the number of cars on the road, (probably by 90% ish)
And if the cars are fitted with some kind of charged air filters they can pull pollutants out of the air as they travel.
Technology is advancing at an amazing rate, and AI will assist in solving the problems.
To be honest, it's madness to own a vehicle that you only use for an hour a day and that spends 23 hours a day doing nothing.
Future autonomous electric or hydrogen vehicles will be cheap to manufacture need little to no maintanance and cost pennies per mile to hire, they will all have identical power supplies and interchangeable parts with no insurance or tax to pay. There will be no traffic jams, no delays no accidents no boy racers, and very little road maintenance to do (no cones, no road signs, no lights or cameras reqd)
The downsize of this is that 90% of car manufacturers go bust their supply chains go under and unemployment rockets. But with the now rapidly declining global birth rate, which is falling much faster than ever predicted, this may not be an issue in 50 years time.
So our future way of living will be very very different than it is today. I think AI will revolutionise the way the entire world operates.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Proper tax on fuel.
Social justice doesn’t create more physical space. The complete lack of investment in other transport is a separate issue.
And the actually poor already don’t drive because they can’t afford it. TBH you sound like those disability activists who claim access to Uber Eats is a human right. People moved around just fine for years, and eve just been subsidising cars over everything else for a quarter of a century:
View attachment 44508
Charge for parking and put proper tax on fuel and road use and you’d soon find out how convenient it is.
Your plan is all fine if there’s affordable public transport across the country but there isn’t in the UK; trains especially are a massive rip off, especially if you have to book at short notice.