Charlie Kirk Shot (31 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Why? It's a country where you can legally own firearms so many do, its within the law. His dad i'm sure taught him how to shoot targets or animals, why would he be to blame for him shooting a person?

Hey I don’t make the laws but look

Colin Gray, father of US school shooting suspect, charged with murder - BBC News

Colin Gray is accused of knowingly allowing his son access to a gun used to kill two teachers and two students in Georgia.

www.bbc.com

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Hey I don’t make the laws but look

Colin Gray, father of US school shooting suspect, charged with murder - BBC News

Colin Gray is accused of knowingly allowing his son access to a gun used to kill two teachers and two students in Georgia.

www.bbc.com

Another

Jennifer Crumbley: Michigan gunman's mother found guilty of manslaughter - BBC News

Jennifer Crumbley is the first US parent ever convicted of manslaughter over a mass shooting by their child.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Another

Jennifer Crumbley: Michigan gunman's mother found guilty of manslaughter - BBC News

Jennifer Crumbley is the first US parent ever convicted of manslaughter over a mass shooting by their child.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/17/us/colt-colin-gray-apalachee-school-shooting

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Turns out the murderer was indeed a radical transactivist. All the people peddling the implausible idea he was a far right ‘gropher’ have been proved wrong.

TBF most were saying "let's wait and see what their motives are."

And I hope you'll be as quick to point out the error of people's assumptions next time a terrorist attack immediately blamed on Islamic terrorists turns out not to be.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I know it's different over there, but if I bought my daughter a gun and then she killed someone, I would feel incredibly guilty and feel it was my fault.

I gave her the gun and she killed someone with the gun I gave her.

Natural thought process I would have thought.

Be different if he bought him a gun and it was kept on a range and the lad stole it or something

Same

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Tyler Robinson appeared in front of a judge today. Investigators confirmed the following points:

1. Casing engraving meant the obvious rather than sarcastic references/insults used by the ‘gopher’ crowd. Specifically, ‘notices bulge uwu’ was a reference to being attracted to pre-transition trans woman rather as opposed to the theory that it was an insult used by the ‘far right’ online.

2. The Utah AG on record saying he’s become ‘more political, leaning left and more pro-gay and trans-rights oriented’

3. Said his dad was ‘pretty hardcore MAGA’ in texts to his partner post-killing as well as saying:

4. ‘I had enough of Kirk’s hatred… some hate can’t be negotiated out’

This is following reports that Robinson’s partner was cooperating with the authorities.

Frankly, as soon as the reports were leaked that the bullets had ‘anti-fascist and pro-trans’ carvings in them… it was obvious the killer wasn’t far-right. The cynics could reasonably argue it was ‘disinformation’ campaign to deflect violence from the political left/trans activists.


Gopher*

It’s a new term for me too. Apparently used to describe an acolyte of a guy called Nick Fuentes who is genuinely far right.

Likely true. Doesn't help that this is the second high-profile trans-related act of gun violence within the space of around 2-3 weeks - a male transitioning to female killed two children outside a church at a Catholic school late last month.

The rhetoric I'm seeing from the right is pretty alarming since reports regarding motive have been confirmed though. It's borderline calling for a crusade / Kingdom of Heaven type stuff.

Although if you want to talk about deflection there's so much talk about left vs right currently when the bigger issue at play is how there's actually very little being said publicly about the need to tighten gun control.

 

[TomRad85]

Hey I don’t make the laws but look

Colin Gray, father of US school shooting suspect, charged with murder - BBC News

Colin Gray is accused of knowingly allowing his son access to a gun used to kill two teachers and two students in Georgia.

www.bbc.com

Right so this guy allowed his underage son access as opposed to a 22 year old having the legal right to ownership of his own firearm.

Desperate attempt to pin the blame elsewhere.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This is not a dig, but how old are you, may I ask?

The saying is "a week is a long term in politics." The next election is nearly FOUR YEARS away. Just wondering how much experience you have of elections over the years.

So much will happen between now and then. In fact, anything can happen.

I honestly believe that Reform will not get in.

They attract so many wrong uns and cast offs from other parties.

As soon as people realise that Farage cannot do what he says he can do, the wheels will start to come off.

He's already had to rein back on his daft "two week" thing.

He's so much hot air.

Anyway, that's by the by. Seem to be a lot of people now believing they are certain to get in.

Let's see where they are in the next 12-18 months. Then we will have a better picture

I've been thinking this myself, but how long has farage shown he's nothing but a grifter and yet still gained popularity. Same with Trump in the US - should be obvious to everyone what he is yet he still got in. Then after that first term and what happened he still managed to get elected again later on. I'm hoping you're right but I certainly am not ruling out a Reform govt.

Some people just seem to want to ignore what's in front of their eyes, like a cult.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Right so this guy allowed his underage son access as opposed to a 22 year old having the legal right to ownership of his own firearm.

Desperate attempt to pin the blame elsewhere.

Wow you need to calm down ffs
I have no skin in the game praise god
The person responsible is the person who pulled the trigger I’m just making the point the law sometimes sees things differently
You could have just stopped at he was 22 and that’s a good point and does make it different legally

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I've been thinking this myself, but how long has farage shown he's nothing but a grifter and yet still gained popularity. Same with Trump in the US - should be obvious to everyone what he is yet he still got in. Then after that first term and what happened he still managed to get elected again later on. I'm hoping you're right but I certainly am not ruling out a Reform govt.

Some people just seem to want to ignore what's in front of their eyes, like a cult.

Works every which way though

 

[TomRad85]

Wow you need to calm down ffs
I have no skin in the game praise god
The person responsible is the person who pulled the trigger I’m just making the point the law sometimes sees things differently
You could have just stopped at he was 22 and that’s a good point and does make it different legally

You said surely there's an element of blame. You made a judgement on a man who as far as we know has done nothing wrong other than spawning a son who is a murderer.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You said surely there's an element of blame. You made a judgement on a man who as far as we know has done nothing wrong other than spawning a son who is a murderer.

Proposing a hypothesis yes and starting discussion not trying to find an excuse for a cold blooded murder

 

[chiefdave]

Investigators confirmed

Sure there's going to be a ton of stuff to come out on this but where are you seeing anything confirmed? From what I'm reading the prosecution have made allegations but have also admitted he isn't talking.

 

[Otis]

I know it's different over there, but if I bought my daughter a gun and then she killed someone, I would feel incredibly guilty and feel it was my fault.

I gave her the gun and she killed someone with the gun I gave her.

Natural thought process I would have thought.

Be different if he bought him a gun and it was kept on a range and the lad stole it or something

Jumped the gun there so to speak. I have no idea if it was the gun he actually gave him, that he used

Point still stands though

 

[TomRad85]

Proposing a hypothesis yes and starting discussion not trying to find an excuse for a cold blooded murder

I fail to any reason that any 'blame' would fall on the father. My wife learned to shoot when she lived in Cyprus, her dad taught her. As far as i know she's not camped on a roof right now and if she was the only thing her dad would be to blame for would be making her a good shot.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Hey I don’t make the laws but look

Colin Gray, father of US school shooting suspect, charged with murder - BBC News

Colin Gray is accused of knowingly allowing his son access to a gun used to kill two teachers and two students in Georgia.

www.bbc.com

What a bizarre comparison to make.

Have you actually read the article? The shooter in this instance was a 14 year old child and the father bought him an AR-15 despite the boy being questioned months prior after he made online threats to commit a school shooting.

Tyler Robinson is a fully grown man.

 

[TomRad85]

You will never take guns from the hands of the American public. We can mock them for being a bunch of headcases, as we should as good Brits, but its a completely irrelevant discussion. It will never ever happen, there would be civil war if anyone tried it.

 

[Otis]

You will never take guns from the hands of the American public. We can mock them for being a bunch of headcases, as we should as good Brits, but its a completely irrelevant discussion. It will never ever happen, there would be civil war if anyone tried it.

It's a mad country.

 

[TomRad85]

It's a mad country.

So are many other countries. It is culturally quite different from the UK despite our common language for sure.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

First link from the Telegraph talks about him using far right language - not something I'm accepting as gospel btw! Feels too simplistic.

and two other results I read from the Telegraph talk about him developing views sympathetic towards trans people recently.

It would be easier if you just posted the link you quoted. Still don't see anything that paints him as an activist in any article.

Don't we have to be open to the idea that his personal life nudged him to a different POV and with access to guns he did a horrific thing?

I read that and from the offset, it was a narrative that didn’t make sense. Particularly, after it was revealed he had a trans partner. Something the article skimmed over and to me, strikes me as something edited into the article after the initial drafts.

If someone carved ‘hey fascist, catch!’ and other niche ‘pro-trans’ messages on billets… it was always an exercise of mental gymnastics to conclude they were actually ‘far right’ rather than the more obvious conclusion that they were ‘anti-fascist’ and ‘pro-trans’.

Charlie Kirk suspect confesses shooting in messages to ‘my love’
Charlie Kirk suspect confesses shooting in messages to ‘my love’

Charlie Kirk’s ‘assassin’ has been charged — here are five things we learnt
Charlie Kirk’s ‘assassin’ has been charged — here are five things we learnt

Sure there's going to be a ton of stuff to come out on this but where are you seeing anything confirmed? From what I'm reading the prosecution have made allegations but have also admitted he isn't talking.

You can read the texts between Robinson and his partner above. Robinson might not be talking, but his partner by all accounts, is.

What’s strange here is just how open Robinson is over text messages. No doubt crackpot conspiracy theorists will be all over it.

 

[Marty]

From what I've read it was the grandfathers gun who later gifted it to the killer?

 

[mmttww]

like a cult.

Yeah, this is the frightening part and it makes it difficult to respond to things people come out with when the reasoning behind their response isn't really based on what's happening or has happened, but just what they think, or what their guy has said or done.

 

[Otis]

You will never take guns from the hands of the American public. We can mock them for being a bunch of headcases, as we should as good Brits, but its a completely irrelevant discussion. It will never ever happen, there would be civil war if anyone tried it.

The other mad thing is we have gone from this....



To this



First one is a gun. The second one is a fully automatic rifle.

They are owning more and more guns and the guns are getting bigger and more powerful

Batshit crazy.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What a bizarre comparison to make.

Have you actually read the article? The shooter in this instance was a 14 year old child and the father bought him an AR-15 despite the boy being questioned months prior after he made online threats to commit a school shooting.

Tyler Robinson is a fully grown man.

I have read all three yep

 

[Nick]

It looks like the narrative has gone from "There's nothing to say he lived with his trans partner or had leftist views" now that has come out he had to "It's his dad's fault for giving him the gun".

I do find it mental though that in any country in the world you can pack an assault rifle for your day out. Just nipping to Tesco with a huge fuck off rifle on my back.

 

[TomRad85]

The other mad thing is we have gone from this....

View attachment 46100

To this

View attachment 46101

First one is a gun. The second one is a fully automatic rifle.

They are owning more and more guns and the guns are getting bigger and more powerful

Batshit crazy.

Yes i agree, they have access to weapons that only soldiers should have available to them. I'm really not sure how they would walk it back at this point though.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The other mad thing is we have gone from this....

View attachment 46100

To this

View attachment 46101

First one is a gun. The second one is a fully automatic rifle.

They are owning more and more guns and the guns are getting bigger and more powerful

Batshit crazy.

Well if you want to go even further back at the time the Second Amendment was adopted the firearms available were smoothbore muskets and flintlock pistols.

In the time it would take to load a smoothbore musket and fire a single shot you could comfortably unload a full magazine of an AR-15 and reload.

 

[Otis]

Yes i agree, they have access to weapons that only soldiers should have available to them. I'm really not sure how they would walk it back at this point though.

You're right of course and it's sad to have to say that.

Gone to far now to ever rein back

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Yes i agree, they have access to weapons that only soldiers should have available to them. I'm really not sure how they would walk it back at this point though.

There isn't really a willingness to from the US public.

To put it into perspective, from recent polls nearly half the country are quite happy for either gun laws to remain unchanged or even for relaxations to be put in place.

 

[TomRad85]

You're right of course and it's sad to have to say that.

Gone to far now to ever rein back

Definitely rather be in the UK. At least our civil war will be less shooty.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

TBF most were saying "let's wait and see what their motives are."

And I hope you'll be as quick to point out the error of people's assumptions next time a terrorist attack immediately blamed on Islamic terrorists turns out not to be.

I waited until the reports came out that the killer had carvings on bullets to make a judgement. The motives were pretty explicit.

If a prominent left wing figure was gunned down and there were bullets carved with ‘hey commie - catch!’ My first reaction is that the guy is a deranged right winger rather than someone who is further to left of the person killer. The link @mmttww shared was helpful here, as numerous people would have read similar things. The article, to summarise, said the killer spoke the language of ‘the far right’ but actually they were niche references built upon already niche references. I assume 90% of people reading this had to google some of these terms/references - myself included.

People who take direct action are usually direct about their motives.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Right so this guy allowed his underage son access as opposed to a 22 year old having the legal right to ownership of his own firearm.

Desperate attempt to pin the blame elsewhere.

Do you think this country would be better or worse off if every adult were allowed to own the types of guns the Americans are?

 

[TomRad85]

Do you think this country would be better or worse off if every adult were allowed to own the types of guns the Americans are?

Worse obviously, i would think that goes without saying.

 

[Otis]

This is excellent.

Would urge everybody to watch this and he does have a go at both the right and the left, so I wouldn't just dismiss it out of hand.

I think he's got it pretty spot on

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There isn't really a willingness to from the US public.

To put it into perspective, from recent polls nearly half the country are quite happy for either gun laws to remain unchanged or even for relaxations to be put in place.

The polls show enormous support for universal background checks amongst other things. Not sure which polls you’re looking at?