Championship thread 25/26! (64 Viewers)

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
Togetherness has mattered a lot this season. Lesta have none of it and have badly underperformed. The teams in and around the top 6 have a lot and are where they are.

Ipswich have the least so aren’t running away with the league as they should be.
I’ve obviously no idea but I get the impression, that Ipswich thought they’d piss the league this year; have had moments where they’ve looked great eg against us at home, and have then rested on their laurels again.
Team attitude definitely goes a long way…at both ends of the table.

It also seems mad to me that they and Middlesbrough have let top strikers in this league ie coburn/szmodics go without replacing them.
I’ve been really impressed by Coburn.
 

Ipad Boro

Well-Known Member
Togetherness has mattered a lot this season. Lesta have none of it and have badly underperformed. The teams in and around the top 6 have a lot and are where they are.

Ipswich have the least so aren’t running away with the league as they should be.
That's a very good point.

I'd say Millwall probably have the best team spirit as they've fostered an us against the world mentality more than any other and may be the leagues best example of a team that is greater than the sum of their parts. They have a few stand out players technically, but the rest all raise the bar, performance levels and frankly bust a gut.

What's also admirable about the Wall is that we normally take the unwanted honour of having the worst long injury crisis in a season. This dubious occurrence started at the end of Carrick's first season. However this season that's probably Millwall's, earlier on in this campaign they probably had an injury record that was worse than ours this year.
 

Ipad Boro

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, this is a loser's mentality. We had it too until Jimmy Hill and now Frank Lampard came and snapped us out of it. You need a top class coach. Money alone will never do it
I'd agree with that, but 150 years of such happenstance can set views you know?

Tbf we've done alright this year without spending an absolute fortune comparatively for this league. There's always been more sides in the division in the last 8 seasons or so that outspend us than there are promotion opportunities.

So it does point to our coaching system having some yield to it, inject money into that equation and you would think upwards would be the most likely trajectory. It does help having a decent academy too tbf, but obviously that requires investment as well.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
At nearly 2am yes 😉

Look, it's been said quite a few times on here that Opta run their model 10,000 times and then report the percentage of simulations where we end up promoted. Their currently quoted "100.00%" figure clearly shows that isn't the case.

It seems much more like Mucca says - they've worked out how many points their model thinks we're likely to get, and because no other team can get that many, we are 100% promoted. That's very different, and pretty deceptive - they think we'll get the required points, therefore we are already there.

It explains why even before Friday's games Opta predicted less than a 1 in 1600 chance that we wouldn't go up. It was clearly nonsense, so out of interest I asked Labroke's (offering 1-1000 ON for promotion on their website) to give me odds for not getting promoted. I never bet against CCFC, but if they'd come back with several hundred to one, I'd have been sorely tempted. They quoted me 16-1, that's SIXTEEN to one! 100 times different from Opta's implied odds, and far more realistic IMO. Personally I think before Friday we were around 95% likely to do it (not 99.94%), and now we are into near-certainty territory.
that cannot be right.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
That's a very good point.

I'd say Millwall probably have the best team spirit as they've fostered an us against the world mentality more than any other and may be the leagues best example of a team that is greater than the sum of their parts. They have a few stand out players technically, but the rest all raise the bar, performance levels and frankly bust a gut.

What's also admirable about the Wall is that we normally take the unwanted honour of having the worst long injury crisis in a season. This dubious occurrence started at the end of Carrick's first season. However this season that's probably Millwall's, earlier on in this campaign they probably had an injury record that was worse than ours this year.
Sheff Utd raided them for the wrong CB. Cooper is much more defensively robust.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
That's a very good point.

I'd say Millwall probably have the best team spirit as they've fostered an us against the world mentality more than any other and may be the leagues best example of a team that is greater than the sum of their parts. They have a few stand out players technically, but the rest all raise the bar, performance levels and frankly bust a gut.

What's also admirable about the Wall is that we normally take the unwanted honour of having the worst long injury crisis in a season. This dubious occurrence started at the end of Carrick's first season. However this season that's probably Millwall's, earlier on in this campaign they probably had an injury record that was worse than ours this year.

I wouldn't say Millwalls team spirit is better than ours.
Just they have a bigger gap to bridge in terms of quality in the squad so it seems more prevalent.

The game at the CBS was a proper no quarter asked or given affair, we just had that bit of extra quality, but there's a real togetherness amongst our group, something I really worry will be lost if we go up
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Hull’s ‘punishment’ has helped them a lot more than it’s hurt them. Sign decent players on free transfers while being incentivised not to sell your star assets.

I don’t see how it’s a benefit - any club could choose to do that
 

CraigSBA

Well-Known Member
@Ccfcisparks if a bookie offers 1000 to 1 on cov not being promoted , whilst unlikely to happen nothing is impossible they are protecting their interest at 16/1 because history shows idiots like to flutter a silly tenner .. likewise offering 1/1000 is also protecting their interests .. they believe its happening and only the very very wealthy can afford to back it
 

Ricketts

Well-Known Member
I feel confident in saying that we have the best team spirit in the league. Harks back to Mark Robin’s days and continued by Frank Lampard.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Funnily enough someone on Five Live said that the Hull manager has outperformed more than any other based on anticipated league position
 

PUSB-We_are_going_up

Well-Known Member
Nah, we're more likely to give you 6 points than Hull.👍🤣

Though I could see a case for Jakirovic being given manager of the season. You'll win the league this year, Frank will be lauded and rightly so as he has done a fantastic job, though he was essentially taking over a playoffs side and turning them into title winners or a 4 league place rise, though this doesn't tell the story of the points improvement, playing style, etc..

Edwards/Hellberg and Neil have both taken an upper mid-table side and made them autos contenders, so about the same level of improvement there, 6 places or so up the league.

What Jakirovic has done is taken a side who survived relegation last year by the skin of their teeth, without a pot to piss in and with an embargo over them anyway into a playoffs side, which to be fair is phenomenal.

In a way it's like saying who would be viewed to have done a better job next year; Liam Rosenior winning the title with Chelsea, Silva and Moyes having Everton and Fulham finish in the top 4 or the Hammers having survived on the final day of this season parting ways with Santo and the new guy having them finish 5th and get the extra CL place?
Lampard took a team that finished 9th, in a relegation battle prior to him joining and turned us into a well oiled machine. He managed us out of a well documented blip its not all been smooth sailing, I think he’s done much better than Edwards/Hellberg in terms of turning a team around, Jakirovic has equally done a good job but FL deserves the recognition I think
 

Calista

Well-Known Member
that cannot be right.
🤷‍♂️ i don't know how the bloody system works, I just know that before Friday the team at Ladbrokes were being realistic and Opta.... weren't, not by a country mile.

I suspect the difference is that Opta assume that numeric past performance absolutely dictates future results, whereas a bookie knows that sport is played under pressure by human beings who can rise above or fall below what they've done before.
 

CraigSBA

Well-Known Member
Mega stat tbh

Frank lampard has the 6th highest win ratio of any manager in championship history over his spells at cov and derby 1.82 ppg combined

His spell at coventry puts him 2nd highest behind kieran mckenna 1.96 ppg to franks 1.95
 

Ipad Boro

Well-Known Member
Lampard took a team that finished 9th, in a relegation battle prior to him joining and turned us into a well oiled machine. He managed us out of a well documented blip its not all been smooth sailing, I think he’s done much better than Edwards/Hellberg in terms of turning a team around, Jakirovic has equally done a good job but FL deserves the recognition I think
I'm not disagreeing with you with that point. In terms of the complete job Lampard has done at Coventry City, he'd get my vote for an award for the best achievements of the last season and a half. No question.

But that wasn't the award being discussed, it was for Manager of This Season. So whilst Frank has done the best overall job of any current manager in the league for the duration of his time in charge, for this season only I believe Jakirovic shades it, just for where Hull were in relation to Cov at the end of last season, therefore what each manager had to work with as a baseline at the start of this.

That's not taking anything away from Lampard though, as you can't finish higher than first.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Thats probably true , they were predicted by many to go down


But reality is coventry winning the league on 90 plus points is a far bigger shock

Obviously it should be Lampard - he’s had a lower than average wage bill in the league and will end up close to 100 points, 100 goals and 30 wins in the season. We’ve dominated the league all season. I was just saying this was a comment.

Middlesborough have a far higher wage bill and have spent £30 m on transfer fees this season. We are easily the best team in the league in the way we play.

A Derby fan said that even though they matched us he knew Coventry would just keep coming back and find a way to score again even if they got a third.

Other than a few weeks - when we had a lot of injuries and illness - we have been miles ahead of everyone else.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I'm not disagreeing with you with that point. In terms of the complete job Lampard has done at Coventry City, he'd get my vote for an award for the best achievements of the last season and a half. No question.

But that wasn't the award being discussed, it was for Manager of This Season. So whilst Frank has done the best overall job of any current manager in the league for the duration of his time in charge, for this season only I believe Jakirovic shades it, just for where Hull were in relation to Cov at the end of last season, therefore what each manager had to work with as a baseline at the start of this.

That's not taking anything away from Lampard though, as you can't finish higher than first.

They increased their wage bill by 25% and it’s far higher than ours
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
Hull were 9/1 for a top 6 finish at the start of the season with betfred.

We were 11/1 for outright winners at start of season with betfred

If we go on to secure the title, according to the bookies that would make our achievement more unlikely than Hulls at the start of the season.

If Hull win the play offs then you could make an argument for him being manager of the season I think but not just for a top 6 finish.
 

PUSB-We_are_going_up

Well-Known Member
I'm not disagreeing with you with that point. In terms of the complete job Lampard has done at Coventry City, he'd get my vote for an award for the best achievements of the last season and a half. No question.

But that wasn't the award being discussed, it was for Manager of This Season. So whilst Frank has done the best overall job of any current manager in the league for the duration of his time in charge, for this season only I believe Jakirovic shades it, just for where Hull were in relation to Cov at the end of last season, therefore what each manager had to work with as a baseline at the start of this.

That's not taking anything away from Lampard though, as you can't finish higher than first.
As G has pointed out look at wages as well, we have one of the lowest wage bills in the league
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Ah, a glimmer of light into what the figures mean. We are 100% likely to be promoted if their prediction that we will be promoted turns out to be correct.
95-96 points was my own ‘projection’ which is just the running averages of our home/away form. 7 home points and 5 away points from here is probable.

Although I expect 2 wins from Hull, Blackburn and Watford which is where I got 96 from. 2 wins v Sheff W, Pompey and a draw v Wrexham seems like a likely outcome, particularly if it’s wrapped up by the penultimate game.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
Wrong, I think you are misinterpreting it. They were happy to put 99.94% so they could easily put 99.99%.
It works on simulating the remaining games. The 100% just means that we go up in all of their simulations. It's why it alters occasionally despite no other games being played.

This article is more about their live game predictions, but explains the principles of what they do: Explaining Live Win Probability (LWP) | Opta Analyst
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
"Cov are only top because eckert hasnt been manager all season"

Since eckert took over


(Including our bad spell too btw )View attachment 50392
Do we get to say:

‘The only reason we haven’t won the league already is because we signed Onyeka in Jan’

Southampton and Ipswich probably do have the Top 2 best squads in the league from Day 1. We’re undeniably a better team and we’ve made all the right decisions in our recruitment to win the league comfortably.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
It works on simulating the remaining games. The 100% just means that we go up in all of their simulations. It's why it alters occasionally despite no other games being played.

This article is more about their live game predictions, but explains the principles of what they do: Explaining Live Win Probability (LWP) | Opta Analyst
At this stage of the season, to miss out on automatic promotion we’d need to not win another game. Given that our next 2 home games are against Sheffield Wednesday and Pompey, those two games alone should take us to 89 points and more than Boro’s max points. 91 guarantees promotion as of today and that’s assuming Millwall and Ipswich don’t drop anymore points which is unlikely.

Going into Sheff Wednesday, 89 points could guarantee promotion if Millwall drop points v Norwich or WBA.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Sheff Utd raided them for the wrong CB. Cooper is much more defensively robust.
There must be something about Neil’s tactics that gets the most out of Cooper and most of their team to be fair. That podcaster who occasionally posts on here did call in pre-season so fair play - I scoffed at the prediction putting them so high and ahead of us. That’s what offended me personally.

Tanganga was a lot of people’s ‘top buy’ for a CB this summer. Sheff U have supposedly dropped 30 points from winning positions this season - it must make their fans feel sick.
 

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