Brexit Benefits (2 Viewers)

CCFCSteve · Jan 4, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
On the wages you have to consider that against inflation. Our inflation rate is still double the EU average and food inflation is around 9%, over double the EU average. Brexit was supposed to deliver higher wages and lower food prices. Neither are true either when compared to our own historic figures or indeed what’s happening in the EU.

On migration it was always BS. The overriding factor on migration is jobs. As long as we don’t have a workforce to fulfill both skilled and unskilled jobs we’ll depend heavily on migration. The government are blowing smoke up our arses saying anything different as the only other alternative is deliberately shrink the economy and no government is ever going to do that.

On tangible benefits they had a minister for that, one Mr Rees-Mogg. The only headline he came up with is dumping the metric system, so the government put it to the test by asking a select group encompassing people in the street to business leaders and business institutions what they thought. Embarrassingly for the government pretty much 100% said it was bollocks.

As for the media the majority of the press is in control of 3 families, all brexit and indeed Tory supporters. All they can come up with is ridiculous headlines like Dave linked and counting something not changing as a brexit bonus. The trade deals have been a joke, Australian MP’s and political commentators are publicly laughing about how they pulled our pants down, we’d have a better deal with Japan and Canada if we were still in the EU. In fact Canada are calling the shots and bending us over. You can mock James O’Brien, he loves the sound of his own voice but you can’t ignore the industry experts for instance that he regularly has on who speak matter of factually seeing firsthand the real effects. I’m particularly thinking about the fishing and haulage experts he has on.

My point is that people are blaming Brexit for issues that are either unrelated or have been impacted far more by other matters/events. The survey proves this and I’ve given three examples.

Without getting into the whole thing (again). The chart previously linked is real wages so takes inflation into the equation

As I say it hard to find any info in our media. Here’s another interesting one though Wages Soar by 11% in Brexit-Exposed Sectors, Data Finds

Its purely supply and demand but as I say, it leads to other issues/challenges, more for employers than workers though

Ps Obrien is as bad as farage for his one eyed view of things.

shmmeee · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
What I don’t understand is if this forum is reflective of the National view why don’t labour include in the manifesto a return to the eu during the next term

It would surely mean a colossal majority of historic proportions

Not sure how they’d win when you’ve already got the government of the silent majority going hard Brexit and anti foreigner. Surely Sunak is in for a landslide?

Grendel · Jan 4, 2024

shmmeee said:
Not sure how they’d win when you’ve already got the government of the silent majority going hard Brexit and anti foreigner. Surely Sunak is in for a landslide?

Well no but it does seem very odd that most want a return to the EU but it’s not offered by either party? Why not do you think?

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
Well no but it does seem very odd that most want a return to the EU but it’s not offered by either party? Why not do you think?

Because Tory Party (where some of the Southern and metropolitan seats would favour a return) have the leave nutters in them, whereas Labour want to take seats in the areas where saying we'd rejoin wouldn't go down well.

Your better question would be why the Lib Dems don't continue to commit to rejoining, as a policy differential and potentially a vote winner in certain Tory seats.

shmmeee · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
Well no but it does seem very odd that most want a return to the EU but it’s not offered by either party? Why not do you think?

Where are you getting the idea most want a return to the EU? I’m not sure how anyone could answer that as it’s even more hypothetical than the leave vote in the first place. Return on what terms?

There’s always been a majority for the SM for example. It’s shit outside the EU, but better than not being in it.

Grendel · Jan 4, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
Because Tory Party (where some of the Southern and metropolitan seats would favour a return) have the leave nutters in them, whereas Labour want to take seats in the areas where saying we'd rejoin wouldn't go down well.

Your better question would be why the Lib Dems don't continue to commit to rejoining, as a policy differential and potentially a vote winner in certain Tory seats.

The Lib Dems will never form a government. Surely the most punished and deceived are the Red Wall so they must be desperate to a return to the EU? The traditional labour voter in these areas must surely want to be back in Brussels - no?

fatso · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
Well no but it does seem very odd that most want a return to the EU but it’s not offered by either party? Why not do you think?

Because its a myth that most people want to return.

Most people want to see the benefits of leaving, that the government have failed to deliver.

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
What I don’t understand is if this forum is reflective of the National view why don’t labour include in the manifesto a return to the eu during the next term

It would surely mean a colossal majority of historic proportions

Because this forum isn’t reflective of the National view. If there was another referendum the result would be exactly the same. People just like us being Britain on our own, for no other reason than that. Who’s to say that’s wrong, people on the remain side just can’t grasp that.

robbiekeane · Jan 4, 2024

fatso said:
Most people want to see the benefits of leaving, that the government have failed to deliver

Because they don’t fucking exist

robbiekeane · Jan 4, 2024

hamertime said:
People just like us being Britain on our own, for no other reason than that. Who’s to say that’s wrong, people on the remain song just can’t grasp that.

Really? Strange for a country that put so much effort into maintaining an empire that covered 25% of the world…

robbiekeane · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
What I don’t understand is if this forum is reflective of the National view why don’t labour include in the manifesto a return to the eu during the next term

It would surely mean a colossal majority of historic proportions

What did you vote?

Grendel · Jan 4, 2024

robbiekeane said:
Because they don’t fucking exist

Then why doesn’t the main opposition include in its manifesto a policy to rejoin?

robbiekeane · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
Then why doesn’t the main opposition include in its manifesto a policy to rejoin?

Electoral strategy, political pragmatism, focus on domestic issues, internal party division

…a million reasons that are unfortunately not the gotcha you were hoping for

Grendel · Jan 4, 2024

robbiekeane said:
What did you vote?

I voted to leave which was nothing to do with any anti immigration far right politics but a rebuff against potential reduction and changing of Veto laws which we’d already seen and the contribution to essentially a federal super state

I’d ask you to consider this. The only party ever to campaign to leave Europe was the genuine socialist Labour Party - not the fawning liberal nonsense it came to be - Corbyn and McDonnell have always wanted out- Len Mcclusky wanted out and the manifesto of the communist party and SWP was to leave to protect British jobs

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

robbiekeane said:
Really? Strange for a country that put so much effort into maintaining an empire that covered 25% of the world…

You’re getting mixed up between what the people want and what the government want. Do think the peasants decided to take over the world? It was the establishment.

Brexit was a historic moment as it give the people the chance to directly choose the outcome. They spoke.

robbiekeane · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
I voted to leave which was nothing to do with any anti immigration far right politics but a rebuff against potential reduction and changing of Veto laws which we’d already seen and the contribution to essentially a federal super state

I’d ask you to consider this. The only party ever to campaign to leave Europe was the genuine socialist Labour Party - not the fawning liberal nonsense it came to be - Corbyn and McDonnell have always wanted out- Len Mcclusky wanted out and the manifesto of the communist party and SWP was to leave to protect British jobs

Well can I just say on behalf of the generation or two below you - thanks a bunch

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
The Lib Dems will never form a government.

Without Nick Clegg, they'd have been a lot closer to doing so. A policy differential that might well play well in certain areas where the Tory Party are in a mess anyway seems sane to me. I genuinely don't understand why they haven't stuck to that - it makes them look as insincere as the Clegg years, and totally stymies any attempt to get back up to Kennedy level of national support and seats.

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

robbiekeane said:
Well can I just say on behalf of the generation or two below you - thanks a bunch

Don’t you think that is pathetically weak that you can only make a nation prosper by joining other ones. People like you are a problem.

Sick Boy · Jan 4, 2024

hamertime said:
Don’t you think that is pathetically weak that you can only make a nation prosper by joining other ones. People like you are a problem.

Surely Britain has always been a weak country then? After all, invading countries and exploitation is how it acquired its wealth.

fatso · Jan 4, 2024

Grendel said:
I voted to leave which was nothing to do with any anti immigration far right politics but a rebuff against potential reduction and changing of Veto laws which we’d already seen and the contribution to essentially a federal super state

I’d ask you to consider this. The only party ever to campaign to leave Europe was the genuine socialist Labour Party - not the fawning liberal nonsense it came to be - Corbyn and McDonnell have always wanted out- Len Mcclusky wanted out and the manifesto of the communist party and SWP was to leave to protect British jobs

But none of that fits in with the loonies on social media who are convinced that any one who dared vote leave is a right wing extreme racist nazi bigot.

Sick Boy · Jan 4, 2024

fatso said:
But none of that fits in with the loonies on social media who are convinced that any one who dared vote leave is a right wing extreme racist nazi bigot.

Much in the same way the loonies on social media think that everyone who voted leave is left wing part of some conspiracy.

shmmeee · Jan 4, 2024

Sick Boy said:
Surely Britain has always been a weak country then? After all, invading countries and exploitation is how it acquired its wealth.

This is the madness of this line of thinking. Are we weak cos we are in the UN? The commonwealth? The United Kingdom? Who is we? Should Coventry leave the UK and the WMCA? Should Tile Hill leave Cov? Should you leave your family? Where does this magical sovereignty line kick in?

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

Sick Boy said:
Surely Britain has always been a weak country then? After all, invading countries and exploitation is how it acquired its wealth.

British people are not weak, we do though have a weak left wing loud gobby minority that constantly try to drag it down with their fantasy ideas. If there ever was a war brought to these shores the left wing kids would be the ones hiding under their beds while the so called binmen and working class people would be the ones doing the fighting i can guarantee you that. There would be no point calling in your EU army as they would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Sick Boy · Jan 4, 2024

hamertime said:
British people are not weak, we do though have a weak left wing loud gobby minority that constantly try to drag it down with their fantasy ideas. If there ever was a war brought to these shores the left wing kids would be the ones hiding under their beds while the so called binmen and working class people would be the ones doing the fighting i can guarantee you that. There would be no point calling in your EU army as they would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Back on planet Earth there were people from all over the world fighting in the British army during the world wars.

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

Sick Boy said:
Back on planet Earth there were people from all over the world fighting in the British army during the world wars.

Im sure the just stop oil protesters will be on the front line to defend the realm.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 4, 2024

Tbf so called binmen is a cracking line

skybluetony176 · Jan 4, 2024

hamertime said:
Don’t you think that is pathetically weak that you can only make a nation prosper by joining other ones. People like you are a problem.

There’s very few if any countries that aren’t joined to other nations in some way. The 2 countries that I can think of that are probably least “joined” to other nations are North Korea and Iran. It’s not exactly something to aspire too is it. Maybe it’s people like you that are the problem with your misplaced exceptionalism mistaking it for strength when in actual fact it’s a weakness.

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
There’s very few if any countries that aren’t joined to other nations in some way. The 2 countries that I can think of that are probably least “joined” to other nations are North Korea and Iran. It’s not exactly something to aspire too is it. Maybe it’s people like you that are the problem with your misplaced exceptionalism mistaking it for strength when in actual fact it’s a weakness.

The problem was Tony it was just the Germans going to be running everything again but in a different way. Britain was never going to have a seat at the top table the froggies were in bed with them, it’s not so long ago they nearly wiped them off the face of the earth by the Germans but now best pals It’s not for me pal but thanks.

PVA · Jan 4, 2024

The 7th Binmen Division

PVA · Jan 4, 2024

PorkySmurf said:
The biggest benefit to me is all the tears from remoaners. I could become homeless as a direct result of Brexit and there will be a smile on my face knowing how many people live their lives in a constant state of bitterness and anger about the vote.

Yeah never mind making life harder for your children and grandchildren, at least you've made some people bitter. That's the real quiz.

skybluetony176 · Jan 4, 2024

hamertime said:
British people are not weak, we do though have a weak left wing loud gobby minority that constantly try to drag it down with their fantasy ideas. If there ever was a war brought to these shores the left wing kids would be the ones hiding under their beds while the so called binmen and working class people would be the ones doing the fighting i can guarantee you that. There would be no point calling in your EU army as they would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Quick history lesson for you. It was the right that harboured Nazi Sympathies through the British Union of Facists, the Mosley and Rothermere families to name 2. The Rothermeres still own the Daily Mail, often referred to at the time as the Daily Heil as it was a pretty unabashed mouthpiece for the Nazis. When Oswald Mosley and his racist facists marched on the east end to attack Jewish businesses it was the left wing working class non Jewish neighbours that stood in solidarity with their Jewish neighbours and fought off the right wing Nazi sympathisers in what was known as the Battle of Cable Street. The Daily Mail ran the headline Hooray for the Blackshirts in support of the facists. They thought they were going to have their “Night of Broken Glass”.

PVA · Jan 4, 2024

PorkySmurf said:
This country (and the rest of Europe) will be on its arse within a few generations anyway.

So it's OK to accelerate the decline, at the expense of your kids and grandkids?

You make the country worse off, make life harder for everyone... all just to make a huge chunk of the population bitter. Understood.

skybluetony176 · Jan 4, 2024

hamertime said:
The problem was Tony it was just the Germans going to be running everything again but in a different way. Britain was never going to have a seat at the top table the froggies were in bed with them, it’s not so long ago they nearly wiped them off the face of the earth by the Germans but now best pals It’s not for me pal but thanks.

Kin’ell. Froggies and an imaginary top table.

PVA · Jan 4, 2024

PorkySmurf said:
I'm not accelerating anything, nor do I think Brexit has accelerated anything. I'm just saying that even if Brexit does accelerate it to the point I find myself at a disadvantage then I would still enjoy laughing at remoaners.

Just an absurd viewpoint, and the perfect encapsulation of Brexit.

hamertime · Jan 4, 2024

PVA said:
The 7th Binmen Division

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