Brexit Benefits (1 Viewer)
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
EU passport control is much quicker since EES was rolled out.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Less than Zero chance.
BS press news, but it suits the EU government's who have been told by Trump to increase defence spending as the US concentrates on China.
It also suits Putin who can keep his factories running on war production.
The minute peace breaks out Russia's economy goes into free fall.
Fear of war also takes the spotlight off the absolute shite job Starmer is doing.
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
I’m sure we are all enjoying paying more tax due to the £87 billion a year loss in tax revenues due to Brexit!
Additionally, I had to reduce my employees because of the loss of access to the single market, which was Thatchers brain child.
Additionally, I had to reduce my employees because of the loss of access to the single market, which was Thatchers brain child.
Ironically the person who championed hardest for it has benefited the most from it being a disaster and being completely wrong about it.
Gove already fessed up, so it won't be necessary for farage to involve himself!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Ahhh the old Germany and France economies aren’t doing so well and they’re in the EU line. In terms of growth that’s true but growth isn’t the only factor in measuring the success of an economy and certainly not when making comparisons. For starters there’s GDP by capita in which Germany especially is doing considerably better than ourselves. More importantly there’s your starting point. We’ve crippled growth year on year to the tune of £100B a year, the shock to our economy as a result of the referendum before we’d even entered the transitional period (ie before COVID) is estimated to have cost our economy more than what our nett payments into the EU were in their entirety of our membership. Then there’s the complete mismanagement of everything but especially the economy during COVID by the incompetent Boris government that seen us effected far more than any other EU country and one the most negatively effected economies in the world (not a coincidence that the Tories that campaigned for Brexit then became the most incompetent government in dealing with the pandemic by any measurement, that tells you a lot about the reality of Brexit on its own). So when people trot out the old what about France and Germany line it’s a false equivalence, simply because they can afford slower growth because their economies are not carrying the financial burden of recent choices and mismanagement of the economy we’ve had. And that’s before you even mention Truss and Trussonomics, people really need to start looking at reforms policies for the economy, it’s along the same lines of Trussonomics, tax cuts for their rich mates and un funded spending promises. And unlike the Tories Reform doesn’t have anyone in their ranks as intelligent as Sunak (yes I know it sounds ridiculous to suggest that Sunak is intelligent given the state of the economy when he left power but it really could have been much worse given the talent pool in the last Tory government) to sort out the Trussonomics 2.1 lorded by reform.
Then there’s the elephant in the room regarding growth with the EU. Why only ever mention Germany and France? Why not mention Ireland, Malta, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Spain, Portugal etc etc? The answer is simple, they’re doing rather well in terms of growth Ireland currently about 10%. Extend that to the EEU and Schengen and the list grows longer. There’s a reason that the right want to end the conversation at Germany and France and it’s because the bigger picture doesn’t back them up. That and they think you’re too stupid to find out what the bigger picture is, you don’t need to indulge them in that assumption, take the blinkers off and look outside of what they’re telling you.
Then there’s the elephant in the room regarding growth with the EU. Why only ever mention Germany and France? Why not mention Ireland, Malta, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Spain, Portugal etc etc? The answer is simple, they’re doing rather well in terms of growth Ireland currently about 10%. Extend that to the EEU and Schengen and the list grows longer. There’s a reason that the right want to end the conversation at Germany and France and it’s because the bigger picture doesn’t back them up. That and they think you’re too stupid to find out what the bigger picture is, you don’t need to indulge them in that assumption, take the blinkers off and look outside of what they’re telling you.
StrettoBoy
Well-Known Member
The Irish economy is of course booming on the back of low rates of Corporation Tax, which has attracted the huge US global companies. The EU doesn't like this model and is putting Ireland under pressure to align it's rates with the EU average.
The current hapless government which we have in the UK - as bad as Truss if not worse - seems to think we can tax our way to growth. It doesn't work and we are seeing falling growth, falling job vacancies and rising unemployment.
The current hapless government which we have in the UK - as bad as Truss if not worse - seems to think we can tax our way to growth. It doesn't work and we are seeing falling growth, falling job vacancies and rising unemployment.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Sorry but this is just nonsense.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What if everywhere decided to copy them and become a tax haven?
StrettoBoy
Well-Known Member
No it isn’t. This is the worst and most untrustworthy government I have experienced in my lifetime and I’m in my 70s. These idiots will probably let Reform take power and then we really are doomed.
StrettoBoy
Well-Known Member
Competition on tax would doubtless leave to a position of equilibrium but that’s missing the point. I was seeking to explain why the Irish economy is booming.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yeah, by using a cheat code that if other places tried would lead to a race to the bottom.
It’s because France and Germanys economies are the closest to us in terms of size, populations and development.
The £100bn figure is nonsense by the way.
The substack attached to this post* is a decent review of the report. I would recommend anyone interested in the subject to read it to at least get balance to the figures being banded around
As far as I’m aware the NBER and other similar reports also don’t take into consideration recent economic impacts such as our ridiculously high energy costs compared to most of the world/Europe, total mismanagement of immigration by Johnson (leading to unproductive migration/negatively impacting gdp per capita figure) and public sector productivity which has been in its arse since 2019. All important factors when looking at our economic performance over the last few years.
That’s the problem with the Brexit debate there is still no honest appraisal on either side. There is no doubt it’s negatively impacted the economy (mostly SMEs who trade goods with the EU) but rather than an honest discussion on pros and cons of CU, rejoining etc we are fed exaggerated bollocks to suit agendas.
*I think the author supported leave so take that into account but it’s the analysis that’s useful.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
But the Irish tax policy is not new, Ireland has consistently had a low corporation tax rate for decades. It’s more to do with them having a highly educated English speaking population and direct access to the EU market. In other words Ireland is having a Brexit bonus, unlike ourselves.
And your truss nonsense is beyond moronic. 49 days to crash the economy, the effects of which are still being felt now. In terms of everyone’s mortgage payments every month and the baked in inflation effecting everyone’s expendable income every pay day since. Labour are shockingly bad but to suggest they’re worse than Truss is just stupid and denying the evidence of your own eyes and your own back pocket.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It really isn’t. That’s the only comparison and it takes us straight back to them thinking you’re stupid because you can’t really compare our economy to France and Germany on any other tangible measure.
In terms of comparison on the make up of our economy you have to compare our economy to other economies in the EU that are service based not manufacturing based. Which brings you straight back to my original list. The economies in the EU that are doing the best are the economies largely based on services not manufacturing. Our growth has been outsourced to other EU countries thanks to Brexit, especially true of Ireland who has the benefit of being an English speaking country in the EU. You’re smarter than that Steve, don’t indulge them who think you’re not.
Terry_dactyl
Well-Known Member
They’re rubbish but they’re not ‘Truss-bad’.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
And fuck me Steve, Jullian Jessop, Steve. Really? A man heavily involved in the IEA, the climate change denying think tank that was listed as the influence for the Truss budget. That’s your go to source. Have a word son, you’re smarter than that.
Edit. Just noticed he also has advisor to Liz Truss on his resume being directly involved in her leadership campaign and helping her set up her somewhat ironically named “growth commission” that directly dreamed up Truss’ budget. Why on earth would anyone take this guy’s opinions seriously given his track record?
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I’m not saying follow the guy, all I said is read the article, it’s not a 100bn annual hit. This is probably the most detailed explanation as to why, hence the link - I could have cut and paste the points but easier to attach link together with the separate points I’ve raised
All I want is honest info from both sides which we haven’t had since before the referendum. If the country wanted to join CU or rejoin after that then that’s the country’s call
All I want is honest info from both sides which we haven’t had since before the referendum. If the country wanted to join CU or rejoin after that then that’s the country’s call
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Breaking news. Author for Brexit Central in Brexit not as bad as figures suggest shocker. Come on Steve, you’re being silly now. If you wanted honesty you wouldn’t be quoting this guy of all guys. A staunch brexit supporter who’s only take is it’s not as bad as actual data suggests it is, offering opinions as facts while he’s not getting the worst PM into power by every single metric including being one of the architects behind her disastrous budget. He probably even dreamed up the anti growth alliance phrase that Truss kept banding about. The guy is culpable in two of the biggest ever disasters to the UK economy, certainly peace time economies, and you want to push him as a serious source. Have a word son. The guy is an idealistic clown who relies on idiots like Truss to do his bidding. He’s not someone anyone should be taking seriously, especially true of opinion pieces that state no actual data to back him up. More fool you for even considering him as a source.
I said I thought he was leave on the original post to flag biases. To be honest though if someone’s looking to analyse ‘forecast’ information which is being treated as fact by many, then Im interested in what they’d have to say and expect others to be too, whatever their views are. You can take any biases into account when you read it
He was raising specific points/issues as to how the figures in the NBER report were calculated and I’ve added additional points which also weren’t considered. If you disagree with what he or I said feel free to say but if you only ever read/listen to people that agree with your point of view, how will you ever know if it’s correct ?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Maybe you should find out who the NBER are, who wrote the report and understand that it’s data based not ideological based. Unlike your man. The NBER are about as bipartisan as it gets, have no benefit in either promoting or opposing Brexit, they’re not even a British or European organisation. They have an excellent track record in economic prediction and reporting, in fact this particular report they point out that there initial predictions of the impact of Brexit have been proven over a five year period but their 10 year prediction may have been too favourable to the effects of Brexit. In other words the effects of Brexit means continued decline rather than a levelling out.
This against a guy who helped put Truss in power, was one of the architects of her budget and someone who can’t bring himself to admit that there are any failures to Brexit past the usual it wasn’t done right nonsense. He writes headlines like Labour shouldn’t squander Brexit opportunities with no real explanation in the article of what those opportunities are or how they can be achieved. The guy is a crank with massively flawed ideology perfectly demonstrated by Truss. But yeah, let’s listen to that guy.
I actually read an article of his saying with no sense of irony whatsoever that Reforms economic plans would lead to a Truss style economic shock as if he wasn’t part of it and it was all Truss’ fault, she acted alone. Why would you take his critique of anything seriously? Especially economics, understanding economic data and economic predictions as it’s clearly something he has little to no understanding off.
You’re still missing the point. Im not saying they’re biased or not. This was critiquing how the NBER got to a certain number which is then taken as fact. I’ve also mentioned several major factors that have had a negative impact on our economic performance in addition to Brexit. I can only assume you haven’t even read the article and/or considered the points I’ve raised so let’s leave it there
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s not that it’s biased, it’s that it’s written by someone who’s track record is appalling and someone who’s self awareness of the reality of his ideology is non existent. To compare Reforms economic policies to Truss’ as if it was nothing to do with you is case in point. He white washed his own track record with disconnect, disinformation and disingenuous rhetoric. If he told me it was raining I’d look out the window to check for myself. Just because he has a way with words does not make him correct in his assumptions. He could write the most coherent article on anything but his track record proves he’s a crank. You take it as a factual balanced counter argument if you like but you’re only fooling yourself.