BBC Midlands Today (2 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Seriously? Have you read it? Give over.

If anybody came on this board, they would piss themselves laughing at the welcoming of a certain top sports club.

I doubt it as it's one of your self fulfilling prophecies and isn't actual reality.

 

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[Nick]

I doubt it as it's one of your self fulfilling prophecies and isn't actual reality.

Fuck off with your self fulfilling prophecies, it is boring now. There are people on here welcoming, justifying and defending. It is a fact. It is reality.

Have a look through Steve's posts for starters.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fuck off with your self fulfilling prophecies, it is boring now. There are people on here welcoming, justifying and defending. It is a fact. It is reality.

Have a look through Steve's posts for starters.

Hey, they're your self fulfilling prophecies not mine but you're right they are boring. Its such a tiny miniscule amount of posts and from even fewer posters anyone coming on here would most likely miss them. What they wouldn't miss is you and your cronies endless posts of fulfilling this self fulfilling prophecy. So fuck off yourself and get over it.

 

[Nick]

Hey, they're your self fulfilling prophecies not mine but you're right they are boring. Its such a tiny miniscule amount of posts and from even fewer posters anyone coming on here would most likely miss them. What they wouldn't miss is you and your cronies endless posts of fulfilling this self fulfilling prophecy. So fuck off yourself and get over it.

How many times can you get your catch phrase into one post?

So is it made up or is it a small amount of posts? Which is it?

 

[italiahorse]

Seriously? Have you read it? Give over.

If anybody came on this board, they would piss themselves laughing at the welcoming of a certain top sports club.

Really?
They would see the problem is not Wasps and they would think why are CCFC still building a new inferior stadium and not working with Wasps at the Ricoh.
I've spoken to many away fans in the casino before the match and that's the way they see it.

 

[Nick]

Really?
They would see the problem is not Wasps and they would think why are CCFC still building a new inferior stadium and not working with Wasps at the Ricoh.
I've spoken to many away fans in the casino before the match and that's the way they see it.

Yes, really.

Obviously they would see it exactly how you see it wouldn't they? Just by chance and all.

 

[italiahorse]

Fuck off with your self fulfilling prophecies, it is boring now. There are people on here welcoming, justifying and defending. It is a fact. It is reality.

Have a look through Steve's posts for starters.

One poster ?
I could give you a list of people who are making more effort to slag off the council, Higgs, Trust in preference to Sisu.
We are all unhappy that CCFC don't own the Ricoh but it is done, get over it and pull together to get these idiots out.

 

[skybluetony176]

How many times can you get your catch phrase into one post?

So is it made up or is it a small amount of posts? Which is it?

Say what you see.

Have you not cottoned onto the fact that the majority of these tiny amount of posts apparently welcoming Wasps are done to wind you and others up? You're self fulfilling it twice. 1) you're trying to palm of what a handful (at best) are saying as a general opinion 2) the tiny amount of posts that are apparently welcoming wasps are only really happening because of the hysterical response from you and others.

Like I said. Get over it. It might even stop.

 

[Nick]

One poster ?
I could give you a list of people who are making more effort to slag off the council, Higgs, Trust in preference to Sisu.
We are all unhappy that CCFC don't own the Ricoh but it is done, get over it and pull together to get these idiots out.

I said for starters, one poster who is the leader of our fans group. Think that says something doesn't it? Then add yourself for a bit more.

To somebody looking from the outside on this site, it is quite clear who they would think are to blame in amongst the froth and rage. To people from the outside they just need to read something and it is stuck with them, I go to the gym and I hear blokes talking about new consortiums taking us over. All of these conspiracies come across as fact and that is what people see as they are shouted the loudest.

 

[italiahorse]

Yes, really.

Obviously they would see it exactly how you see it wouldn't they? Just by chance and all.

There's no changing your thoughts on this.
You keep slagging Wasps/CCC off instead of Sisu and we will agree to disagree.

 

[Nick]

Say what you see.

Have you not cottoned onto the fact that the majority of these tiny amount of posts apparently welcoming Wasps are done to wind you and others up? You're self fulfilling it twice. 1) you're trying to palm of what a handful (at best) are saying as a general opinion 2) the tiny amount of posts that are apparently welcoming wasps are only really happening because of the hysterical response from you and others.

Like I said. Get over it. It might even stop.

No, they aren't done to wind others up. I very much doubt some of the people doing it would have that about them and wouldn't go to the extreme of going to Wasps games just to wind somebody else up. (Bar LAST and BHSB being cheeky! )

So when we have the leader of the trust coming on and putting his opinion across and saying it is what the majority of Coventry think, is he being misleading then?

It isn't really hysterical is it? Let's be honest about it.

 

[The Gentleman]

Seriously? Have you read it? Give over.

If anybody came on this board, they would piss themselves laughing at the welcoming of a certain top sports club.

Fuck off (whats good for the goose and all that) with YOUR obsession with Wasps, I've just checked the first 5 pages of threads and only 3 have Wasps in the title and they are to do with the deal being looked at. Apart From Italia, the main people who use Wasps in posts are you, Torch and Stupot. So maybe if you think people are laughing then surely it would be at you. They own the stadium, Sisu fucked up, most on here wished we owned the stadium and most on here wish that Wasps weren't here but they are. Wouldn't it be easier for the likes of the people I mentioned above rather than posts crap about Wasps on here just fire off a generic email to Sisu, CCC, ACL and Higgs.

 

[italiahorse]

I said for starters, one poster who is the leader of our fans group. Think that says something doesn't it? Then add yourself for a bit more.

To somebody looking from the outside on this site, it is quite clear who they would think are to blame in amongst the froth and rage. To people from the outside they just need to read something and it is stuck with them, I go to the gym and I hear blokes talking about new consortiums taking us over. All of these conspiracies come across as fact and that is what people see as they are shouted the loudest.

I go and watch Wasps because I enjoy it.
I'm not happy that they own the Ricoh, but I'm clever enough to know that a Ricoh with the Wasps running it is better than an empty Ricoh.
I'm also clever enough to know that CCC could not wait for Sisu to become the only possible tenant for the Ricoh and then give it to them for free as per the Sisu plan.
Get over it.

 

[Nick]

Fuck off (whats good for the goose and all that) with YOUR obsession with Wasps, I've just checked the first 5 pages of threads and only 3 have Wasps in the title and they are to do with the deal being looked at. Apart From Italia, the main people who use Wasps in posts are you, Torch and Stupot. So maybe if you think people are laughing then surely it would be at you. They own the stadium, Sisu fucked up, most on here wished we owned the stadium and most on here wish that Wasps weren't here but they are. Wouldn't it be easier for the likes of the people I mentioned above rather than posts crap about Wasps on here just fire off a generic email to Sisu, CCC, ACL and Higgs.

Some probably do laugh at me, while they are acting like army leaders at the Ricoh demanding 14 - 15 year olds run round so the cameras can see their protest and thinking up conspiracies. Safe to say I won't lose much sleep.

I didn't say Wasps were at fault for anything, I said people would see their welcoming strange.

I don't have an issue with Wasps, the issue is with supposed "fellow fans".

 

[The Gentleman]

I certainly dont disagree with you on the fact that SISU are almost entirely to blame for this debacle, and that they are certainly ignoring us, which is utterly frustratimg as we have no idea what the hell they are trying to achieve.

Not so sure about the Higgs still coming in for much criticism, apart from a lone recent post about them being drawn into things, whilst people are frustrated at the Trust and have differing ideas on the way forward, but hardly see anyone blaming them for the position we are in.

The Council apportion some blame as the Stadium has gone, and there are still some questions to be answered, although to be fair some have recently been addressed, and I am sure once the full audit has been done, which would have happened anyway it might allay some of these further concerns.

I think what frustrates is that the stadium was built originally for the club, and the club dont own/lease it, and certainly it doesnt look like we ever will.
I dont think anyone wants SISU to own it, but what would have been the ideal scenario was for SISU to go, and new owners to come in and then join the club up with the stadium. I know it simplistic but now the club is in the hands of what was an out of town Rugby team, on a lease of 250 years we have no chance of matching it up with the club, therefore who really will want to buy us a loss making club with no stadium, and therefore SISU become more entrenched in ownership, destroying the club and using it as some sort of offsetting machine in their complex financial world.

Its the no real answers or ideas of a way forward for the club, or how we get rid of SISU that is begining to grind everyone down, couple with the dross on the pitch.

Don't disagree with this Moff. I think that most people who don't Like Sisu wouldn't mind it if they'd bought it like they should've done.

 

[The Lurker]

Don't disagree with this Moff. I think that most people who don't Like Sisu wouldn't mind it if they'd bought it like they should've done.

If sisu bought half the Ricoh in 2007 then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Simple as that. They played a game of trying to distress ACL and it backfired.

 

[italiahorse]

If sisu bought half the Ricoh in 2007 then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Simple as that. They played a game of trying to distress ACL and it backfired.

If CCFC had not sold the half share to HIGGS in the first place and pocketed the £6.5M we also wouldn't be having this discussion.
All they had to do was pay the money back (as agreed). Sisu, as you said, could have done the same or perhaps even have negotiated it down before they bought CCFC.
I suspect that Sisu plan all the time was to do exactly what they did.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If CCFC had not sold the half share to HIGGS in the first place and pocketed the £6.5M we also wouldn't be having this discussion.
All they had to do was pay the money back (as agreed). Sisu, as you said, could have done the same or perhaps even have negotiated it down before they bought CCFC.
I suspect that Sisu plan all the time was to do exactly what they did.

The detail of this deal with Higgs is shrouded in mystery. Who did CCFC owe £6m to at that time?

 

[skybluetony176]

No, they aren't done to wind others up. I very much doubt some of the people doing it would have that about them and wouldn't go to the extreme of going to Wasps games just to wind somebody else up. (Bar LAST and BHSB being cheeky! )

So when we have the leader of the trust coming on and putting his opinion across and saying it is what the majority of Coventry think, is he being misleading then?

It isn't really hysterical is it? Let's be honest about it.

That's his personal choice nothing to do with the trust and certainly not trust policy. You just don't like the trust because of their position of criticising SISU so will promote anything to rubbish the trust. Steve has also mentioned on here several times that he also watches England and CRFC regularly too. He's clearly a Rugby fan (I think he may of also mentioned in he played Rugby not football) who enjoys going to watch Rugby with the mentality of a Rugby fan, which in my experience means going to watch any game you have the opportunity to go to. Its a different mindset to football fans hence no segregation and drinking in the stands. You seem to be having trouble recognising this and also the fact that there is no conflict of interest with Steve being a Rugby fan and a leader of the Trust. If he was a Villa fan you may have a point but he isn't so get over it.

 

[Grendel]

If CCFC had not sold the half share to HIGGS in the first place and pocketed the £6.5M we also wouldn't be having this discussion.
All they had to do was pay the money back (as agreed). Sisu, as you said, could have done the same or perhaps even have negotiated it down before they bought CCFC.
I suspect that Sisu plan all the time was to do exactly what they did.

The sale of the shares was around £2.5 million

 

[italiahorse]

The sale of the shares was around £2.5 million

No it wasn't.
No wonder you have been arguing for all these years if that's what you thought.

 

[Grendel]

No it wasn't.
No wonder you have been arguing for all these years if that's what you thought.

You do realise the £6 million includes the loans made from the charity don't you to the club prior to leaving high field road?

 

[italiahorse]

You do realise the £6 million includes the loans made from the charity don't you to the club prior to leaving high field road?

I didn't, perhaps it's me that's been fighting the wrong battle
Can you show me ?

 

[Grendel]

I didn't, perhaps it's me that's been fighting the wrong battle
Can you show me ?

There is a link from an old thread somewhere. I don't know the breakdown from memory but it's a combination of elements that make up the £6 million.

 

[italiahorse]

There is a link from an old thread somewhere. I don't know the breakdown from memory but it's a combination of elements that make up the £6 million.

Found this one
http://www.higgscharity.org.uk/the-higgs-charity-acl-and-wasps/

 

[chiefdave]

There's a post from OSB somewhere but from memory a good chunk of the £6.5m was writing off loans that had already been given to the club that were unlikley to ever be repaid due to the clubs financial difficulties. So although you could say Higgs paid £6.5m the actual amount given to the club in terms of new money at the point of the sale was much lower.

 

[italiahorse]

There's a post from OSB somewhere but from memory a good chunk of the £6.5m was writing off loans that had already been given to the club that were unlikley to ever be repaid due to the clubs financial difficulties. So although you could say Higgs paid £6.5m the actual amount given to the club in terms of new money at the point of the sale was much lower.

So in reality it was something like this.

CCFC owed Higgs £4M.
Higgs bought ACL 50% for £6.5M but only paid CCFC £2.5M
Higgs had an agreement with CCFC for them to purchase it back at £6.5M plus notional interest.

Backed up by JR facts ...

8. In 2001, the Club was relegated to the second flight of English football (theChampionship) for the first time in 34 years. On 19 December 2003, following theresultant loss of football revenue coupled with the increasing development costs of thenew stadium, CCFC sold its interest in FIL to a local charitable trust, the SecondInterested Party (“the Higgs Charity”). The sale agreement had an option, underwhich CCFC could buy back the shares for an amount to be calculated under aformula based on the sale price and notional interest but with a minimum price of£6.5m. Any sale by the Higgs Charity of its shares in FIL (and, hence, its share inACL) under the option agreement – or, indeed, otherwise – required the consent of theCouncil. The result of that sale to the Higgs Charity was that the Football Club hadno direct interest in the new ground, because, with the sale of its shareholding, CCFCof course sold its right to Arena revenues; but there was the hope and expectation thatthe Football Club would repurchase the 50% share of ACL from the Charity when itwas able to do so.

Funny how facts become distorted to show ACL was purchased for £2.5M just to justify an argument ?

 

[fernandopartridge]

So in reality it was something like this.

CCFC owed Higgs £4M.
Higgs bought ACL 50% for £6.5M but only paid CCFC £2.5M
Higgs had an agreement with CCFC for them to purchase it back at £6.5M plus notional interest.

Backed up by JR facts ...

8. In 2001, the Club was relegated to the second flight of English football (theChampionship) for the first time in 34 years. On 19 December 2003, following theresultant loss of football revenue coupled with the increasing development costs of thenew stadium, CCFC sold its interest in FIL to a local charitable trust, the SecondInterested Party (“the Higgs Charity”). The sale agreement had an option, underwhich CCFC could buy back the shares for an amount to be calculated under aformula based on the sale price and notional interest but with a minimum price of£6.5m. Any sale by the Higgs Charity of its shares in FIL (and, hence, its share inACL) under the option agreement – or, indeed, otherwise – required the consent of theCouncil. The result of that sale to the Higgs Charity was that the Football Club hadno direct interest in the new ground, because, with the sale of its shareholding, CCFCof course sold its right to Arena revenues; but there was the hope and expectation thatthe Football Club would repurchase the 50% share of ACL from the Charity when itwas able to do so.

Funny how facts become distorted to show ACL was purchased for £2.5M just to justify an argument ?

Where have you got CCFC owing Higgs £4m from?

 

[wingy]

Where have you got CCFC owing Higgs £4m from?

Derek HIGGS loans
Although I think the components appear to have been about 2M of said loans 2.5Mish towards development and then around a final 2M to take over the 50%

Then Wonder how the Value was decided
Was It purely arbitrary, Calculated or a combination of CCFC Input and CCC Input
roughly 3+10 then averaged?

 

[chiefdave]

CCFC owed Higgs £4M.
Higgs bought ACL 50% for £6.5M but only paid CCFC £2.5M
Higgs had an agreement with CCFC for them to purchase it back at £6.5M plus notional interest.

No idea if the £4m is right but that's the theory of it I think. I suppose any debate would be around the chance of Higgs ever having got the loans that were rolled into the sale paid off had they not taken the route they did. Obvioulsy now impossible to know that.

Think the £6.5m was a minimum but the actual 'formula' price was generally thought to be around £10m. Remember PWKH posting once that he couldn't give details but that peoples estimates, which were mostly the £10m figure, were about right.

Of course that in itself opens up a can of worms, even if you take the lower £6.5m figure, around Higgs attempting to profit off the club by charging above the market value, bourne out by the eventual sale for under £3m. That's back to the same old arguement that goes round in circles about why the sale price to Wasps was as low as it was.

 

[Captain Dart]

Derek HIGGS loans
Although I think the components appear to have been about 2M of said loans 2.5Mish towards development and then around a final 2M to take over the 50%

Then Wonder how the Value was decided
Was It purely arbitrary, Calculated or a combination of CCFC Input and CCC Input
roughly 3+10 then averaged?

The SBT website has some details.. http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index...c-ltd-holdings-ricoh-build-years-1993-to-2007

2003
Accounts for CCFC Group show a net investment of £6,808,425 in the Arena Project which was then sold to the AEH Charity for £6,500,000. The balance of £308,425 was written off	Companies House CCFC Group Accounts 2003 & 2004
19[SUP]th[/SUP] December Alan Edward Higgs Charity acquires 50% of ACL from CCFC ltd. Shares owned by Football Investors Limited, which becomes a wholly owned subsidiary of the Charity. Cost to Charity £6,523,184 inc. fees. Payment made £2m cash £2.5m waiver of loan and £2m to two directors who had outstanding loans to FIL who then re loaned the money to CCFC ltd. CCFC Ltd acquires option to purchase shares back from the Charity.	CCFC H accounts, Judicial Review docs
19[SUP]th[/SUP] December Development agreement between ACL and CCFC signed	Administrator's Report

 

[Evo1883]

Anyone see it tonight the feature on city and their desperate fall from grace over the years?
The reporter asked pressley outright how he felt about being responsible if city get relegated and Pressley's face told a story..
Fourth flight of English football was made pretty clear by the BBC they even showed Webster not marking Davies for his goal..

They should get Waggott and fisher on to explain how they have let a club like ours end up in the gutter..

Agree with what you say ...but they should also get richardson and mcginnty to do some explaining too

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I didn't say Wasps were at fault for anything, I said people would see their welcoming strange.

I don't have an issue with Wasps, the issue is with supposed "fellow fans".

Funny you should say that a majority of us felt the same about Northampton.

It's also funny how the ones that went to shitfields are making the most noise about the wasps.

 

[WestEndAgro]

Funny you should say that a majority of us felt the same about Northampton.

It's also funny how the ones that went to shitfields are making the most noise about the wasps.

Fully agree, oh the irony , franchise football in Northampton, but. Up in arms when it's in Coventry.

 

[Nick]

Funny you should say that a majority of us felt the same about Northampton.

It's also funny how the ones that went to shitfields are making the most noise about the wasps.

I think again you miss the point.

It is because some of the people throwing abuse about then, now go to Wasps. (I didn't say all). Just waiting for tony to use his catch phrase again.

Do keep up.